What Makes a Christian a Christian?

[ppp]

1. look at your organs and see how they perform their exact duties
2. look at the sun and how far and yet close it heats up your body
3. see how fruits and vegetables grow from liquid particles and rays from the sun
4. see how finely tuned the earth is
5. see how your heart pumps blood across your body
5. and how your eyes are more powerful then the created lenses

nothing cant come from nothing

and

6. Read the Quran and read the life of Prophet Muhammad

None of those things are evidence that Allah exists.

 

[ppp]

Being Muslim means submitting to the will of Allah thus believing Allah exists

That is not evidence. That is just a random bit of preaching.

 

[Moses_UK]

That is not evidence. That is just a random bit of preaching.

Was answering your point earlier

 

[Cooky]

Was answering your point earlier

I have a great idea! You should start a thread on it, so we can return to the topic of Christianity.

...You can call it "what makes a Muslim a Muslim".

 

[Batya]

Your question is loaded with at least one false assumption. Every human does not have a reason to believe in a deity. Are these meant to be real questions, or at they just thinly disguised preaching? I am leaning towards the latter.

I think you're right that we can get too caught up trying to

1. look at your organs and see how they perform their exact duties
2. look at the sun and how far and yet close it heats up your body
3. see how fruits and vegetables grow from liquid particles and rays from the sun
4. see how finely tuned the earth is
5. see how your heart pumps blood across your body
5. and how your eyes are more powerful then the created lenses

nothing cant come from nothing

and

6. Read the Quran and read the life of Prophet Muhammad

I agree with your reasoning, very well put. I will just say I have the same reasons to believe in deity, but I personally believe in the Bible.

 

[Moses_UK]

That is not evidence. That is just a random bit of preaching.

Please watch this video

and read this book

http://www.onereason.info/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/The-Eternal-Challenge_8Feb_2.pdf

 

[ppp]

Was answering your point earlier

Ah. Believing that Allah exists is only tied to being a Muslim if one thinks that Allah is worthy of worship. Even if I you were to convince me that Allah is a real thing, you would still have a lot more work to do to get to that next step.

 

[Cooky]

Guys, proselytizing is a violation of forum rules. Just a friendly warning.

...That means you're not allowed to try and convince anyone to convert to a different or new religion.

 

[Moses_UK]

I think you're right that we can get too caught up trying to

I agree with your reasoning, very well put. I will just say I have the same reasons to believe in deity, but I personally believe in the Bible.

Ok will go back to the original question "what makes a Christian a Christian"

what does the word Christianity mean? It means followers of Christ. Modern-day Christians don't follow Jesus but chose to follow Saul/Paul.

so to be the follower of Christ and be true believers, WE must follow his exact commandments and actions.

1. we must circumcise are boys
2. we must refrain from swine
3. we must pray as Jesus prayed
4. we must follow Moses commandments
5. Worship 1 God

etc
to be true Christians we must follow the ebonites or Nazirians who totally rejected Pauls teachings and were the followers of Christ.
but today's Christianity follows Saint Constantine and Saul.

I would be extremely surprised if Christians understood and still believed due to:

1. Texts of the Bible being deleted, omitted and added by scribes
2. Gospel writers not being actual eyewitnesses
3. Trinity later added in the 4th century
4. Accounts of the resurrection and crucifixion contradicted in the 4 canonical gospels
5. Paul who wrote the majority of the Bible hated Christians (killed them) and claimed to have seen God and was an apostle (by the way did not meet Jesus)
6. Numerical and textual contradictions throughout the Gospels
7. The current bible is not the actual text and was a copy of a copy and only discovered 100s of years after the death of Jesus

The list goes on.....

 

[ppp]

Please watch this video

and read this book

http://www.onereason.info/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/The-Eternal-Challenge_8Feb_2.pdf

I am here for discussion. Not homework or pamphlets. I am not adverse to taking recommendations but only after the person has laid down a cogent and thoughtful groundwork. You have not done that,

For the sake of good will I took a look at the first few minutes of the youtube. I was disappointed, yet completely unsurprised that it was a variation of the Kalam.

 

[ppp]

so to be the follower of Christ and be true believers, WE must follow his exact commandments and actions.

1. we must circumcise are boys
2. we must refrain from swine
3. we must pray as Jesus prayed
4. we must follow Moses commandments
5. Worship 1 God

This just seems like more denomination wars to me.

 

[Cooky]

Ok will go back to the original question "what makes a Christian a Christian"

what does the word Christianity mean? It means followers of Christ. Modern-day Christians don't follow Jesus but chose to follow Saul/Paul.

so to be the follower of Christ and be true believers, WE must follow his exact commandments and actions.

1. we must circumcise are boys
2. we must refrain from swine
3. we must pray as Jesus prayed
4. we must follow Moses commandments
5. Worship 1 God

etc
to be true Christians we must follow the ebonites or Nazirians who totally rejected Pauls teachings and were the followers of Christ.
but today's Christianity follows Saint Constantine and Saul.

I would be extremely surprised if Christians understood and still believed due to:

1. Texts of the Bible being deleted, omitted and added by scribes
2. Gospel writers not being actual eyewitnesses
3. Trinity later added in the 4th century
4. Accounts of the resurrection and crucifixion contradicted in the 4 canonical gospels
5. Paul who wrote the majority of the Bible hated Christians (killed them) and claimed to have seen God and was an apostle (by the way did not meet Jesus)
6. Numerical and textual contradictions throughout the Gospels
7. The current bible is not the actual text and was a copy of a copy and only discovered 100s of years after the death of Jesus

The list goes on.....

But Jesus said the Holy Spirit would be with the Church, and the earliest Christians spoke of a Holy Spirit in the 1st century, prior to the completion of the New Testament.

The Holy Spirit and the Early Church: Doctrine & Confession

In a number of early Christian writings we find important elements of a doctrine of the Holy Spirit. A remarkable amount of material is provided by Irenaeus, bishop of Lyon around 180-185, in his work "Against Heresies" (Adversus Haereses ). Irenaeus was a theologian of the Holy Spirit par excellence (Jaschke 1976; cf. Minns 2010). Trinitarian formulas frequently appear in his work. In this context, Irenaeus sees the Spirit as a 'person', just like the Father and the Son. More than once he refers to Christ and the Spirit as 'the two hands of God' (e.g. sections 5, 28, 4).2 Time and again he speaks of the Spirit's work in creating the world (5, 1, 1.), with reference to the Scriptures (Jaschke 1976:249-265), Christ (Jaschke 1976:233-249, 282-288), the Church (Jaschke 1976:208-233), and the individual Christian (Jaschke 1976:265-327). The Son and the Holy Spirit partook in creating the world; they were the two hands of the Father (Adversus Haereses 4, Pref. 4).3 The Spirit and the Son are the sources of inspiration of Scripture and prophesy (Adversus Haereses passim). The Holy Spirit is the finger of God,4

 

[Batya]

Ok will go back to the original question "what makes a Christian a Christian"

what does the word Christianity mean? It means followers of Christ. Modern-day Christians don't follow Jesus but chose to follow Saul/Paul.

so to be the follower of Christ and be true believers, WE must follow his exact commandments and actions.

1. we must circumcise are boys
2. we must refrain from swine
3. we must pray as Jesus prayed
4. we must follow Moses commandments
5. Worship 1 God

etc
to be true Christians we must follow the ebonites or Nazirians who totally rejected Pauls teachings and were the followers of Christ.
but today's Christianity follows Saint Constantine and Saul.

I would be extremely surprised if Christians understood and still believed due to:

1. Texts of the Bible being deleted, omitted and added by scribes
2. Gospel writers not being actual eyewitnesses
3. Trinity later added in the 4th century
4. Accounts of the resurrection and crucifixion contradicted in the 4 canonical gospels
5. Paul who wrote the majority of the Bible hated Christians (killed them) and claimed to have seen God and was an apostle (by the way did not meet Jesus)
6. Numerical and textual contradictions throughout the Gospels
7. The current bible is not the actual text and was a copy of a copy and only discovered 100s of years after the death of Jesus

The list goes on.....

Ok will go back to the original question "what makes a Christian a Christian"

what does the word Christianity mean? It means followers of Christ. Modern-day Christians don't follow Jesus but chose to follow Saul/Paul.

so to be the follower of Christ and be true believers, WE must follow his exact commandments and actions.

1. we must circumcise are boys
2. we must refrain from swine
3. we must pray as Jesus prayed
4. we must follow Moses commandments
5. Worship 1 God

etc
to be true Christians we must follow the ebonites or Nazirians who totally rejected Pauls teachings and were the followers of Christ.
but today's Christianity follows Saint Constantine and Saul.

I would be extremely surprised if Christians understood and still believed due to:

1. Texts of the Bible being deleted, omitted and added by scribes
2. Gospel writers not being actual eyewitnesses
3. Trinity later added in the 4th century
4. Accounts of the resurrection and crucifixion contradicted in the 4 canonical gospels
5. Paul who wrote the majority of the Bible hated Christians (killed them) and claimed to have seen God and was an apostle (by the way did not meet Jesus)
6. Numerical and textual contradictions throughout the Gospels
7. The current bible is not the actual text and was a copy of a copy and only discovered 100s of years after the death of Jesus

The list goes on.....

Okay, so, first of all, I don't consider myself a Christian in the modern sense of the word. I totally understand where you are coming from, the Jesus of today has been completely hellenized into something he is not. The idea that Paul disagreed with Yeshua is not in keeping with the Bible. Yeshua didn't do away with the law neither did Paul, he reiterates that many times ("God forbid that the law is of no effect"). Yeshua is the Word become flesh, the Word being the commandments therefore it is obvious that the law is still in effect. Most Christians do not understand this anymore, but would if they honestly studied the Bible. I do believe in circumcision, I don't eat pork or other unclean foods, and otherwise seek to follow the Torah. Also, I don't believe in the doctrine of the trinity, true biblical doctrine is that there is one God...hear o Israel, YHWH our God, YHWH is ONE. There are not three gods, just as much as we are one being made up of body, spirit, and soul. These are not just my opinion, this is what the Bible says.
Also, Paul did hate the followers of Yeshua at one time, until he became one himself. Throughout his writings, he is passionate about his people Israel and desperately wanting to see them come to messiah.
There has been much deception, Constantine definitely playing a big role, it is my desire that more people would seek the truth about these things.

 

[Batya]

This just seems like more denomination wars to me.

I don't think it has anything to do with denominations, just taking a hard look at the Christian faith of today in comparison to what the Bible says

 

[Cooky]

Okay, so, first of all, I don't consider myself a Christian in the modern sense of the word. I totally understand where you are coming from, the Jesus of today has been completely hellenized into something he is not. The idea that Paul disagreed with Yeshua is not in keeping with the Bible. Yeshua didn't do away with the law neither did Paul, he reiterates that many times ("God forbid that the law is of no effect"). Yeshua is the Word become flesh, the Word being the commandments therefore it is obvious that the law is still in effect. Most Christians do not understand this anymore, but would if they honestly studied the Bible. I do believe in circumcision, I don't eat pork or other unclean foods, and otherwise seek to follow the Torah. Also, I don't believe in the doctrine of the trinity, true biblical doctrine is that there is one God...hear o Israel, YHWH our God, YHWH is ONE. There are not three gods, just as much as we are one being made up of body, spirit, and soul. These are not just my opinion, this is what the Bible says.
Also, Paul did hate the followers of Yeshua at one time, until he became one himself. Throughout his writings, he is passionate about his people Israel and desperately wanting to see them come to messiah.
There has been much deception, Constantine definitely playing a big role, it is my desire that more people would seek the truth about these things.

You say you don't believe in the Trinity, but do you Believe in the Holy Spirit? If you do, what is the Holy Spirit?

 

[ppp]

I don't think it has anything to do with denominations, just taking a hard look at the Christian faith of today in comparison to what the Bible says

A denomination is nothing more than a person or group of persons who interpret the Bible in a given way and say that they are right about it. All you are doing is saying that your interpretation of the Bible is the right one and that no one with different interpretation is doing it right. They say that their interpretation is right and you say that yours is and you all sight your chosen passages from the Bible. Often the same passages with different spins and/or emphases.

 

[Batya]

You say you don't believe in the Trinity, but do you Believe in the Holy Spirit? If you do, what is the Holy Spirit?

Yes, I believe in the holy spirit. I would call it a complex unity, I don't profess to understand every detail of God obviously. For instance, in genesis when it says that the spirit of God hovered above the waters, we don't take that to mean that it wasn't God himself. The holy spirit is God, and the Bible says that God is spirit

 

[Cooky]

A denomination is nothing more than a person or group of persons who interpret the Bible in a given way and say that they are right about it. All you are doing is saying that your interpretation of the Bible is the right one and that no one with different interpretation is doing it right. They say that their interpretation is right and you say that yours is and you all sight your chosen passages from the Bible. Often the same passages with different spins and/or emphases.

Actually, the doctrines of the Holy Spirit, and the Trinity predate the bible.

 

[Batya]

A denomination is nothing more than a person or group of persons who interpret the Bible in a given way and say that they are right about it. All you are doing is saying that your interpretation of the Bible is the right one and that no one with different interpretation is doing it right. They say that their interpretation is right and you say that yours is and you all sight your chosen passages from the Bible. Often the same passages with different spins and/or emphases.

I am only seeking to fit my opinion to the Bible, not the other way around. If you think I am twisting scripture, feel free to point it out to me, I am not trying to condemn anyone

 

[Batya]

Actually, the doctrines of the Holy Spirit, and the Trinity predate the bible.

How so?