What Makes a Christian a Christian?

[sojourner]

1. No person of sound mind can believe that a man who lived 2000 years ago died for all humans
2. No person of sound mind can believe that the bible is inerrant
3. no person can believe that Jesus's real teachings were Christians practice today

the list can go onnnnnnn

1) what do you mean by “died for all humans?”
2) I don’t believe the Bible is inerrant. No clergy or lay people I personally know believe that.
3) Jesus taught love, compassion, justice, equity, forbearance, mercy, hospitality, love, and forgiveness. Should we abandon those practices today?

 

[sojourner]

1. No person of sound mind can believe that a man who lived 2000 years ago died for all humans
2. No person of sound mind can believe that the bible is inerrant
3. no person can believe that Jesus's real teachings were Christians practice today

the list can go onnnnnnn

Someone has an Irritation. Application of Balm of Gilead may help relieve it.

 

[sojourner]

How do you know what Jesus wants? Jesus didn't write the Bible
and you claim you are doing what Jesus wants. let me ask you these questions

1. Why are the authors of the canonical gospels anonymous?
2. why where they complied and canonized 100s of years after the death of Jesus?
3. Why have lots of texts (doctrinal) been omitted and changed in the NIV in comparison to the KJV?
4. Why has the Bible got lots of contradictions?

If you want me to teach you about Christianity please ask and stop following the pagan beliefs of your forefathers.

what do you mean by salvation? are you quoting Sauls's statements?

You claim Islam is an Arab religion when Arabs consist of 20% of all Muslims worldwide.

The whole of the Faith is not limited to the Bible. the Faith is predicated on scripture, Tradition, and reason.

1) Because bylines weren’t necessary when the Gospels were written. Neither were copyrights or trademarks.
2) Because they began as oral Tradition in an orally-transmitted culture — and were passed on that way for years. Why were several other Gospels never canonized? Because the Bible was not conceived as a legalistic document.
3) Because the NIV translation has a theological bias. It’s not the best English translation available.
4) Because it’s a compilation of several strands of Judeo-Christian written tradition. it’s not designed to be a cohesive story.

Why do you seem to think the Bible is the center of Christian doctrine? it’s not. Never was until the sola scriptura heresy 1500 years after the fact.

If you want me to explain Christianity to you, please ask and stop posting drivel.

 

[Moses_UK]

What do you mean by “believe in?” I believe in the Bible; I’ve seen it and studied it. It really does exist! Do I believe it’s infallible? No; it’s not designed to be. Does it contain contradictions? Of course; that’s the nature of the beast. But the Christian Faith is not predicated upon the Bible, but rather the Apostles’ teaching, the prayers, and the breaking of bread.

I'm a pastor on the US. I know of hundreds of colleagues in the US. None of us are getting “big bucks.” I can only afford one car and a house that’s worth less than $150k. I can’t afford to take a nice vacation. I get paid less than the national median income. And I don’t encourage people to blind faith.

you must think that we’re all Joel Osteens or some such dog-and-pony show.

Welcome, Mr. Pastor,

I can't believe you openly admit that the Bible has contradictions yet you believe in it and preach it.

When Saul states all scripture is God-Breathed (2 Timothy 3:16), means either GOD makes mistakes or Paul was lying.

You claim the Christian faith is based on the apostle's teachings when they disagreed on all matters concerning the laws. If Paul or Saul is to be relied upon why was James admonishing him in changing the Laws? (Acts: 21:21-26).

WHY DONT YOU FOLLOW THE TRUE JESUS?

 

[Moses_UK]

Someone has an Irritation. Application of Balm of Gilead may help relieve it.

Make fun all you like, does not concern me. let's stick with the question "what makes a Christian a Christian". my personal opinion is that Christians have strayed far far away from the teachings of Jesus due to man's negligence and mishandling of his words. Scribes changed and manipulated the teachings so that they could get gold coins. So need to rephrase the question. "what makes a Paulinian a Paulian".

 

[sojourner]

I can't believe you openly admit that the Bible has contradictions yet you believe in it and preach it.

I can’t believe you believe I shouldn’t...
Any fool with a brain stem can see the various texts disagree with each other in places. That’s what happens when you have many threads of largely oral tradition coming together. Xy isn’t a legalistic proposition, anyhow, so contradictions are not only expected, but welcomed.

When Saul states all scripture is God-Breathed (2 Timothy 3:16), means either GOD makes mistakes or Paul was lying

1) Since the only scripture Paul recognized was the Hebrew texts, that was what he meant. No Greek texts implied there.
2) No one worth his salt believes that God wrote the Biblical texts.
3 “God-breathed” does not mean “authored.”

You claim the Christian faith is based on the apostle's teachings when they disagreed on all matters concerning the laws. If Paul or Saul is to be relied upon why was James admonishing him in changing the Laws? (Acts: 21:21-26).

Sure they disagreed. But as I said, the Christian Faith is not legalistic. Your wishes for it notwithstanding.

WHY DONT YOU FOLLOW THE TRUE JESUS?

WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING??? You think there’s a “fake Jesus?” Perhaps you shouldn’t have a shot of bourbon after all...

 

[sojourner]

Make fun all you like, does not concern me. let's stick with the question "what makes a Christian a Christian". my personal opinion is that Christians have strayed far far away from the teachings of Jesus due to man's negligence and mishandling of his words. Scribes changed and manipulated the teachings so that they could get gold coins. So need to rephrase the question. "what makes a Paulinian a Paulian".

Your opinion isn’t worth a goose fart on a muggy day where the Faith is concerned. if you think there was some “correct” way of handling the texts, you expect too much from something you know little about.

No such thing as a “Paulinian.” Unless it’s a radical fringe group somewhere.
you realize that much of Paul’s writing predates the Gospels? so if you want to talk “original, written teachings,” that would come closer to Paul than the Synoptics. But please keep digging your exegetical hole.

 

[Moses_UK]

The whole of the Faith is not limited to the Bible. the Faith is predicated on scripture, Tradition, and reason.

1) Because bylines weren’t necessary when the Gospels were written. Neither were copyrights or trademarks.
2) Because they began as oral Tradition in an orally-transmitted culture — and were passed on that way for years. Why were several other Gospels never canonized? Because the Bible was not conceived as a legalistic document.
3) Because the NIV translation has a theological bias. It’s not the best English translation available.
4) Because it’s a compilation of several strands of Judeo-Christian written tradition. it’s not designed to be a cohesive story.

Why do you seem to think the Bible is the center of Christian doctrine? it’s not. Never was until the sola scriptura heresy 1500 years after the fact.

If you want me to explain Christianity to you, please ask and stop posting drivel.

You have contradicted Pauls's statement in 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true" are you lying or Paul?

If what you state to be true, why do you believe the doctrines of Christianity to be true?

 

[sojourner]

You have contradicted Pauls's statement in 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true" are you lying or Paul?

If what you state to be true, why do you believe the doctrines of Christianity to be true?

No. I haven’t. I believe the scripture Paul was speaking of is inspired. I believe it is useful for teaching the Faith. But “inspiration” =/= “infallible. “Useful for teaching” =/= 100% cohesive. Who’s lying now?

What do you mean by “true?”

 

[Moses_UK]

I can’t believe you believe I shouldn’t...
Any fool with a brain stem can see the various texts disagree with each other in places. That’s what happens when you have many threads of largely oral tradition coming together. Xy isn’t a legalistic proposition, anyhow, so contradictions are not only expected, but welcomed.


1) Since the only scripture Paul recognized was the Hebrew texts, that was what he meant. No Greek texts implied there.

I can give you 1000s of contradictions in the Hebrew texts

2) No one worth his salt believes that God wrote the Biblical texts.

Most Christians especially in the US believe that the Bible is a direct revelation from God.

3 “God-breathed” does not mean “authored.”

It means inspired, so God played a hand in it
Sure they disagreed. But as I said, the Christian Faith is not legalistic. Your wishes for it notwithstanding.


WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING??? You think there’s a “fake Jesus?” Perhaps you shouldn’t have a shot of bourbon after all...

You have purposely avoided my point. let's look at the verse,

6 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness,

If the scripture is inspired, whatever is being taught should be logically sound and correct without contradictions, for example, the laws regarding eating blood. the scripture clearly states the gentiles should avoid eating food that has blood, so why did Paul change this and state all foods are clean?

17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

As a pastor and a servant of God, you're being asked to equip yourself in the scripture rather than making laws on your whims and desires.

There is no consistency amongst Christians and each brings his/her own opinion. I am not surprised most atheists come from Christian backgrounds.

 

[Moses_UK]

1) what do you mean by “died for all humans?”
2) I don’t believe the Bible is inerrant. No clergy or lay people I personally know believe that.
Most Christians believe the Bible is directly from God
3) Jesus taught love, compassion, justice, equity, forbearance, mercy, hospitality, love, and forgiveness. Should we abandon those practices today?

How do you know Jesus believed and taught all these good practices? Did Jesus come to you directly? or are you taking the Bible's account?

 

[sojourner]

You have purposely avoided my point. let's look at the verse

Or, given what you’v3e posted thus far, it’s more likely that you’ve misunderstood the thrust of my rebuttal.

If the scripture is inspired, whatever is being taught should be logically sound and correct without contradictions, for example, the laws regarding eating blood

You seem to be of the mistaken opinion that Christian faith is a museum-piece that should be kept hermetically sealed under glass for all time. That may be the case for Islam, but it most certainly is not the case for Xy. The Faith is a living faith, and that means that it changes and develops over time. Circumstances alter cases. it’s the same reason why animals evolve — and viruses, for that matter. We can look at what the early church believed in their time and circumstances, and use that as a baseline for what’s right and proper now, in our circumstances.

the scripture clearly states the gentiles should avoid eating food that has blood, so why did Paul change this and state all foods are clean

See above. Same reason why we now have female bishops in some places, and same-sex marriage.

As a pastor and a servant of God, you're being asked to equip yourself in the scripture rather than making laws on your whims and desires

But not JUST in scripture. Scripture is only one piece of a large puzzle. Plus, I don’t “make laws on my own whims.” But neither do I make idols of doctrine.

There is no consistency amongst Christians and each brings his/her own opinion

I’d argue that there is consistency in a great many things. But uniformity isn’t always healthy. Heck! Even Islam has inconsistency in its constituents. So don’t throw rocks from your glass house.

 

[sojourner]

How do you know Jesus believed and taught all these good practices? Did Jesus come to you directly? or are you taking the Bible's account?

How do you know he didn’t teach these things?

There’s a continuity from Judaism to Christianity in that regard. These are teachings and commandments that have been passed down — not only through scripture, but through other strands of religious Tradition, as well. They are communally-embedded consistently across time and culture. We have a fair amount of authentic Jesus quotes from the Bible that make clear where he was coming from. Scholarship has shown that. Prove that Muhammad wrote the Koran. You can’t. Again: don’t throw rocks.

 

[Moses_UK]

Or, given what you’v3e posted thus far, it’s more likely that you’ve misunderstood the thrust of my rebuttal.


You seem to be of the mistaken opinion that Christian faith is a museum-piece that should be kept hermetically sealed under glass for all time. That may be the case for Islam, but it most certainly is not the case for Xy. The Faith is a living faith, and that means that it changes and develops over time. Circumstances alter cases. it’s the same reason why animals evolve — and viruses, for that matter. We can look at what the early church believed in their time and circumstances, and use that as a baseline for what’s right and proper now, in our circumstances.

So based on your arguments morales change? Morales is subjective, rather than objective?
Your statements totally go against most Christian beliefs. If faith evolves morales evolve. So if Morales evolve let's just accept everything then.

See above. Same reason why we now have female bishops in some places, and same-sex marriage.


But not JUST in scripture. Scripture is only one piece of a large puzzle. Plus, I don’t “make laws on my own whims.” But neither do I make idols of doctrine.

Yes, you do, because Jesus said "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least [by those] in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:19).

I’d argue that there is consistency in a great many things. But uniformity isn’t always healthy. Heck! Even Islam has inconsistency in its constituents. So don’t throw rocks from your glass house.

Tell me what inconsistency there is in doctrine in Islam, please?

 

[ppp]

How do you know what Jesus wants? Jesus didn't write the Bible
and you claim you are doing what Jesus wants. let me ask you these questions

1. Why are the authors of the canonical gospels anonymous?
2. why where they complied and canonized 100s of years after the death of Jesus?
3. Why have lots of texts (doctrinal) been omitted and changed in the NIV in comparison to the KJV?
4. Why has the Bible got lots of contradictions?

If you want me to teach you about Christianity please ask and stop following the pagan beliefs of your forefathers.

what do you mean by salvation? are you quoting Sauls's statements?

You claim Islam is an Arab religion when Arabs consist of 20% of all Muslims worldwide.

I don't know why you included me in this.

 

[ppp]

Tell me what inconsistency there is in doctrine in Islam, please?

The inability to demonstrate that there is an intelligent agent that is responsible for the existence of the universe.

 

[sojourner]

Tell me what inconsistency there is in doctrine in Islam, please?

Different Islamic “denominations” follow different law.

 

[ppp]

There is no consistency amongst Christians and each brings his/her own opinion. I am not surprised most atheists come from Christian backgrounds.

How do you know that most atheists come from Christian backgrounds? Is that something you can demonstrate, or is that just the third baseless claim in those two sentences?

 

[Moses_UK]

How do you know that most atheists come from Christian backgrounds? Is that something you can demonstrate, or is that just the third baseless claim in those two sentences?

Am certain you have a Christian background whilst at the same time state you don't have faith.

 

[Moses_UK]

Different Islamic “denominations” follow different law.

e.g.?