Gay Bashing

[Saint Frankenstein]

You said No, to mankind being made through procreation.
Which means you disagreed. There is no need to tell me what I already know... especially milk.

Because Yahweh didn't create humanity through procreation. I don't know why you're acting like Adam wasn't made from dirt and Eve wasn't made from a rib. Yeah, they went on to have a lot of incestuous sex according to the story, but we're talking about how Yahweh made them.

 

[thomas t]

However, if it was below the radar, there would less over reaction by those not easily desensitize by such a strategy.

so you basically blame the LGBT+ community for all the bashing that accurs against them. Or hollywood.
LGBT+ people could have stayed under the radar, as you said.
That's blameshifting in my opinion.
Calling them "perverts" cannot be justified by a broader coverage in the media and elsewhere.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Last time I read the Bible, you could cure snake bite with a brass carving of a snake, and Balaam's donkey could talk.

Not bad moments at which to ask yourself if it's really wise to take the thing literally.

And it says the blood of a dove is perfectly legit and necessary to sling around after someone has been cured of leprosy.

 

[nPeace]

nPeace, all of these are religious biases. Here is something short about sexual attraction The neuroendocrinology of sexual attraction - PubMed

The only time one's sex is an issue is if one wants to procreate. Many homosexuals have children for whatever reason. Procreation is a choice. But attraction is not.

When I read about people "turning from" homosexuality, what they are saying is that they repressed their physiological attractions. For whatever reason, religious or not, they convinced themselves mentally that whatever they continue to naturally feel is wrong and after awhile they (and their peers) indoctrinate them to believe what they feel (how they were born) is wrong and in order to have the "right" feelings is to try to change one's physiology towards the opposite sex.

Attraction doesn't work that way. People are attracted to other people because we are all humans. Our interconnection doesn't have religious and biblical morals attached to it.

Take this:

"Mr. Smith, 58, who says he believes homosexual behavior is wrong on religious grounds, tried to tough it out. He spent 17 years in a doomed marriage while battling his urges all day, he said, and dreaming about them all night."

He is defining homosexuality as a behavior. We can change our behaviors but we cannot change our attractions. Homosexuality is not a behavior, so many homosexuals, heterosexuals, bisexuals, et cetera can abstain from sex but they are still homo, hetero, or bi regardless what they tell themselves they cannot do.

Your definition is off. That's the problem. Medically, it's not a behavior. Biblically it is. So, you're talking pass people until you guys have the same definition of the word. So far we know in the 21st century rather than before the common error, we found that sexual orientation isn't a crime. We don't need to imprison people for it as we used to.

Did you know:

Sodomy laws in the United States were laws that made certain kinds of sexual activity illegal. In the past, there were federal laws against sodomy. Every state also had a sodomy law, even in the 20th century.

It used to be illegal for same-sex intercourse
The History of Sodomy Laws in the United States - Washington

The last state to repeal it was 2003 in alabama
LGBT rights in Alabama - Wikipedia

I think maybe you're coming from a old (and foreign) perspective to homosexuality that just doesn't exist since the 70s or so when we found out in the States homosexuality is not a behavior (and later illness) etc.

You are just expressing your bias Artist. I see the reverse, Psychological warfare, if you want to call it that.
People convince themselves of things, and suppress things.
So it shows the power of the mind, and coupled with the right heart condition, the mind is more powerful.

@nPeace here is something else
9 Ex-Leaders of the Gay Conversion Therapy Movement Apologize

“There will be people who will be understandably upset, leaders can’t undo the harm they caused while they’re a part of these programs,” says Bussee who in 2007 publicly apologized for his work in the movement from 1976 until 1979. “All we can do know is say this harm needs to stop.”

This is why people are so sensitive about this issue. People who believe that people can change and what they believe and feel are wrong, and those who promote these mindsets, do harm and make people victims of their own natural born attractions.

I know they may be opinions but there are many people who harm others with their opinions. Hopefully, they can still say I disagree while understanding what they disagree with. We can deal with opinions but not the behaviors based on them.

I saw this one before I posted.
It doesn't change a thing, as the studies are not complete, and they can't confirm anything.
Aside from that 9 persons do not overrule 100.

harm is done even by people who do not think they are causing harm. Would you agree?

 

[nPeace]

Because Yahweh didn't create humanity through procreation. I don't know why you're acting like Adam wasn't made from dirt and Eve wasn't made from a rib. Yeah, they went on to have a lot of incestuous sex according to the story, but we're talking about how Yahweh made them.

We? You. I was talking about mankind.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

We? You. I was talking about mankind.

Whatever, dude. You can play games if you like but I don't have the patience for it

 

[thomas t]

For the reason that there are children who willfully choose to have sexual intercourse with both young and old. I'm talking about children 11 and up.

that's a myth.
Children of that age cannot consent to having sex, in my opinion.

 

[nPeace]

Last time I read the Bible, you could cure snake bite with a brass carving of a snake, and Balaam's donkey could talk.

Not bad moments at which to ask yourself if it's really wise to take the thing literally.

You must have read a different Bible to the one 90% of the world read. Hopefully you will get a new one. Or maybe read it carefully, because something is definitely wrong with what you read.

I read that persons were healed by God's power, and and Balaam's donkey had no voice, but the angel in it's path spoke.

 

[nPeace]

Whatever, dude. You can play games if you like but I don't have the patience for it

I got no time for games. Cool though.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't need several, although I can produce more than you can even dream of.
I just need one, How one homosexual changed
"I had been a homosexual since the age of eight..."

However, I think it's important you read the entire article, so that you understand that change is possible for homosexuals... why some do not change... and how their thinking is transformed.

Although I could bury you in a pile... two are better than one, so why not...
‘Ex-Gay’ Men Fight Back Against View That Homosexuality Can’t Be Changed

Of course. You use JW sources. Unlike me being able to draw from numerous and varied sources. You can't do that like I can with this subject. And all you've really done is dismiss mine because you assume they aren't teaching by your standards. But they are.
The only things you can post are very few people, doing it in a way that would promote placebo effects as a success of the treatment. How and why? Because placebo treatments will "work" for some despite there being no real reason for this, and its very few it does work for. Or like 12 Step programs, where again we find an abysmal lack of scientific evidence to support them and where it "works" for so very few people we are left in a position where we must assume it doesn't work because consistently it fails most people and makes them worse off.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You must have read a different Bible to the one 90% of the world read.

Nope.

 

[Skywalker]

While I am a big fan of the Christian community, it nourishes me every day...
not everthing is as good as it should be, I think.

These days I see it as a fashion among Christians to bash homosexuals and call them "perverts" and "wicked". At least some do and the rest sometimes stays silent when it happens.

Normally Bible says "judge not" - so why do some Christians think it is ok to speak about gays and lesbians in such a disparaging manner?
Judging and condemning happened in the Bible. Paul judged Alexander, for instance. But before, he was getting attacked by Alexander. Homosexuals don't usually attack Christians even if some of them call the former "peril of the youth" - without providing the slightest substanciation for this weird claim of course. By substanciation I mean a Bible verse or a scientific study...

Paul even goes on to teach that people living in sexual sin should even be removed from the churches.*

But never Bible calls for the insulting of other minorities.

Pointing this out within the Christian communities sometimes gets tricky, too.
They say you were "the accuser of the brethren" or interrupted the peace inside of the community.
I sometimes even heard I was purportedly judging the ones who judge homosexuals.
Merely pointing out disparaging remarks judges noone, though. Criticising a statement does not mean criticising the person.

Thomas

Disclaimer: I am neutral towards whether the Bible considers homosexuality or its practice sinful.

* 1 Corinthians 5:7

why do people believe its a sin? Because it goes against boundaries or because it goes against the order of a relationship? Do you think people saying God created men and women is a reference to its wrong because they arent husband and wife, or its indirectly wrong for that reason? I believe any romantic relationship between anyone who isnt husband and wife is not godly, not just same gender ones.

 

[Skywalker]

I understand your post as saying that - even if people don't happen to call other people names... they can still hurt. If they do so, I wouldn't say they are of a bad character, ... but they still hurt.
If there is judgement going on inside their soul, the judged person might get the hint by anything that happens to them, even if they aren't flat out called names.

I get your point.
Discrimination can adopt many forms. I agree.

After church, people are sometimes asked to eat out at a restaurant. (For me it's too expansive anyway.) But if they know someone is gay/lesbian... and they don't ask them because of their sexual orientation... this is discrimination, too, if it happens. This can hurt just as much as an insult. Even more perhaps. I would call it mobbing.

So, when somebody happens to look down on others because of their sexual orientation or because of a same sex partner, then there certainly are many traps that could be stepped into revealing their thoughts, as I see it.

But the key point is... once you observe discrimination happening in your church.... can you make it a topic or would they silence you the moment you barely touched the matter.
If discussion is still possible, the church is still open to thought. If it isn't, it gets difficult, in my opinion.


edited for grammar

Why is there a different word for female homosexuality that only applies to females? There is no male version of the word lesbian.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Why is there a different word for female homosexuality that only applies to females? There is no male version of the word lesbian.

The male equivalent of "lesbian" is "gay".

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You are just expressing your bias Artist. I see the reverse, Psychological warfare, if you want to call it that.
People convince themselves of things, and suppress things.
So it shows the power of the mind, and coupled with the right heart condition, the mind is more powerful.


I saw this one before I posted.
It doesn't change a thing, as the studies are not complete, and they can't confirm anything.
Aside from that 9 persons do not overrule 100.

harm is done even by people who do not think they are causing harm. Would you agree?

I'll have to come back, but this confused me. The links you gave where biblical. I gave scientific links. Regardless who is conversing, why would any person rely on biblical biases for something that's physiological and psychological in nature?

I'd go to the bible to learn maybe how to talk to god but I wouldn't get advice from people before the common era to tell me about the neurological mechanisms of depression.

 

[thomas t]

why do people believe its a sin? Because it goes against boundaries or because it goes against the order of a relationship? Do you think people saying God created men and women is a reference to its wrong because they arent husband and wife, or its indirectly wrong for that reason?

People choose a conservative Bible reading that's why they think it's sin.
I stay entirely neutral to the hypothesis that since God created male and female... homosexuality must be wrong then.
I permit myself to consider that God, at a time when noone spope about sex in public, could not have differenciated between same sex sex against one's sexual orientation... and same sex sex that's corresponding to one's sexual orientation.
I'm still neutral.
Just saying that in world that did not talk about sex, God could not have explained what keywords like "sexual orientation" "STDs" or "trangender" actually mean. So at a time when God couldn't openly have spoken about these subjects without running the risk of getting heavily misunderstood, he couldn't have differenciated between different sorts of extramarital sex to begin with. Even if he wanted.

I'm not saying that he would have wished to differenciate, though.
Just saying that if he would have, this wouldn't have been possible in a manner that he would have made himself understood by the people of back then. They wouldn't have understood the concept of sexual orientation to begin with back then.

Still I'm neutral towards whether or not Homosexuality is sin.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

harm is done even by people who do not think they are causing harm. Would you agree?

Yes. You can still cause harm even if one doesn't realize it.

That's why I disagree with someone "not being homosexual anymore." I don't even agree that someone heterosexual can be homosexual. We can change our behavior but not our physiology.

Do you agree or disagree that sexual attraction is a physiological and psychological cause and not behavioral?

The idea is that we are attracted to other humans from one degree to another (some full blown, others near to none). Not all of our attractions lead to sexual behaviors-depending on what type of attraction it is (platonic, physical, emotional, etc), their maturity (puberty, adult), and how strong their attractions (lust, love, marital, puppy love) are. We are born with the means to be physically and psychologically attracted to other people whether for platonic relationship, procreation, intimacy, or lust. (To add god) All of this is how we are born and assumingly how god created us.

With that said, I only know believers to have issues with people's genitals. It's a moral issue. Our bodies and minds/brains don't have morals. Unless its inappropriate age or rape (others I havent mentioned), I don't see a moral and legal problem with same-sex sex (regardless the type above).

"Male and female, god made them" refers to procreation-type. It doesn't refer to two men or two women intimate because of companionship, relationship, love, marital consummation, and so forth. People before the common era also didn't know about sexual orientation. The bible is a poor choice to argue against scientific facts of sexual attraction and the neurological and biological causes of such.

One's genitals is besides the point.

 

[Skywalker]

People choose a conservative Bible reading that's why they think it's sin.
I stay entirely neutral to the hypothesis that since God created male and female... homosexuality must be wrong then.
I permit myself to consider that God, at a time when noone spope about sex in public, could not have differenciated between same sex sex against one's sexual orientation... and same sex sex that's corresponding to one's sexual orientation.
I'm still neutral.
Just saying that in world that did not talk about sex, God could not have explained what keywords like "sexual orientation" "STDs" or "trangender" actually mean. So at a time when God couldn't openly have spoken about these subjects without running the risk of getting heavily misunderstood, he couldn't have differenciated between different sorts of extramarital sex to begin with. Even if he wanted.

I'm not saying that he would have wished to differenciate, though.
Just saying that if he would have, this wouldn't have been possible in a manner that he would have made himself understood by the people of back then. They wouldn't have understood the concept of sexual orientation to begin with back then.

Still I'm neutral towards whether or not Homosexuality is sin.

Why do people say God created male and female and not husband and wife?

 

[Skywalker]

The male equivalent of "lesbian" is "gay".

Why don't people use the term gay for women as much as they use it for men? Is it because there are differences besides gender?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm bisexual and a transsexual man, and I have had very nasty bigoted remarks thrown at me by Christians over my sexuality and gender on this site. So I will answer yes to your poll, although I am not gay.