Gay Bashing

[nPeace]

You say that, and yet while I cried and pleaded for this "mind made over and transformed" it never happened. It never came. I put "me" away to do that "god's will" thing. That brought such terrible suffering and anguish that I wanted to die. And the torments and anguish didn't begin coming to and end until after I left Christianity. And it was such a tremendous burden off of my life that unlike many former Christians I have never looked back, never doubted, and have never experienced anxiety or depression over leaving it. I went from True Believer to anti-Christ, and from being self-destructive and empty shell to taking better care of myself and wanting to live and doing things and improving my life. I did all that because I evicted the holy ghost from my heart, plucked myself from Jesus' flock, and screamed "raca" at Jehovah.

I don't know what you had. For all I know, people could have had the Devil himself and thought they had something else. I don't know.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Again you use examples where innocent people are victimzed, which is what makes them bad. Love between consenting adults does not victimize the innocent. People are only bothered by it due to ancient, primitive superstitions that are insubstantiated, arbitrary, and irrational.

Cover to cover, the Bible really is generally ill suited to teach morality today. We don't do that eye for an eye, sins of the father, scorched earth, we don't even require women be virgins on their wedding. "Kill those who worship other gods?" Today we have freedom of religion. It is the superior ethic. Not "kill those who entice you go away from me." Kill men who lie with a man as he would with a woman? Their blood is on their hands? Yes, or morality today--removed from this ancient, barbaric, savage, and demonic god--is vastly superior. It's not superior, but wasting away in front of a TV is better than hunting witches.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Threads like this are why RF needs you.
We're an education forum, and we need to help ignorant imbeciles come to reason.

It's threads like this that remind me I have support here, and knowing most people here will be opposition to such attitudes is a nice thing about here. Let them bark and yipe. Those dogs get kicked here.

 

[Father Heathen]

For all I know, people could have had the Devil himself and thought they had something else.

Like that Charles Russel guy.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't know what you had. For all I know, people could have had the Devil himself and thought they had something else. I don't know.

So what is it? Do you know, as you do in this post, or do you not know as you did in your previous post?

Whatever the world chooses to call them, I don't know them as Christian, and I am not on that side of the fence.

As for me, it's pretty much one of the most Christian things you can do by denying those who leave it were true to our former faiths. For some of us, we were so firm in our faith that leaving it brings about tremendous emotional turbulence. Mine was when I started having doubts, questioning my faith, and reexamining everything about my faith. That was a pretty hard time. But when I left it that included my emotional attachments to it. That was all I had, then I banished it.

 

[nPeace]

So what is it? Do you know, as you do in this post, or do you not know as you did in your previous post?

As for me, it's pretty much one of the most Christian things you can do by denying those who leave it were true to our former faiths. For some of us, we were so firm in our faith that leaving it brings about tremendous emotional turbulence. Mine was when I started having doubts, questioning my faith, and reexamining everything about my faith. That was a pretty hard time. But when I left it that included my emotional attachments to it. That was all I had, then I banished it.

Can't say anything more than... I don't know what you had.

 

[InChrist]

That doesn't really work. Long term they are still gay, or worse off, or they kill themselves. That's why basically every major medical, psychiatric, psychiatric, and counseling organization condemns those "therapies."

You are right about that. Those therapies don’t work and do cause a lot of problems for same-sex attracted individuals, including depression or worse, suicide. On the other hand, I think the transforming power of Christ does work because that is a complete change of identity or as the scriptures say one becomes a new creation in Christ. This transformation is not only possible in regard to homosexuality, but any area of one’s life that falls short of God’s perfect wholeness.

Below is a link to someone’s own personal experience and change of identity, if you’re interested...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You are right about that. Those therapies don’t work and do cause a lot of problems for same-sex attracted individuals, including depression or worse, suicide. On the other hand, I think the transforming power of Christ does work because that is a complete change of identity or as the scriptures say one becomes a new creation in Christ. This transformation is not only possible in regard to homosexuality, but any area of one’s life that falls short of God’s perfect wholeness.

That "changing power of Christ" is exactly what those therapies promote. Prayer, Bible study, giving their lives to god, they promote the same thing you do.
And don't forget, many of the strongest supporters of this nonsense get outed as gay, have a serious breakdown when they are outed, and apologize for the damage they did. It's not unusual for this to happen.
‘Doesn’t surprise me’: Conversion therapy survivors on another ex-therapist coming out
Man who worked as top 'conversion therapist' comes out as gay
‘Ex-gay’ therapist allegedly found soliciting ‘hookups’ on gay dating apps
Former Gay Conversion Therapy Leader Comes Out, Apologizes to LGBTQ Community
Out of the Darkness: Conversion Therapist Quits ‘Ex-Gay’ Movement
Gay Conversion Ministry Shuts Down
Activists And Suicide Prevention Groups Seek Bans On Conversion Therapy For Minors

 

[InChrist]

That "changing power of Christ" is exactly what those therapies promote. Prayer, Bible study, giving their lives to god, they promote the same thing you do.
And don't forget, many of the strongest supporters of this nonsense get outed as gay, have a serious breakdown when they are outed, and apologize for the damage they did. It's not unusual for this to happen.
‘Doesn’t surprise me’: Conversion therapy survivors on another ex-therapist coming out
Man who worked as top 'conversion therapist' comes out as gay
‘Ex-gay’ therapist allegedly found soliciting ‘hookups’ on gay dating apps
Former Gay Conversion Therapy Leader Comes Out, Apologizes to LGBTQ Community
Out of the Darkness: Conversion Therapist Quits ‘Ex-Gay’ Movement
Gay Conversion Ministry Shuts Down
Activists And Suicide Prevention Groups Seek Bans On Conversion Therapy For Minors

I am aware of those Christian conversion ministries which have seen closed shop because they didn’t work, since they were based on works and human effort.

Like I was trying to say though, “conversion therapy “ even using the Bible, prayer, etc. like they’re some kind of “how to tools” is not the same as transformation by Christ.

 

[loverofhumanity]

It is not for any of us to judge others, but to treat all with dignity and respect.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I am aware of those Christian conversion ministries which have seen closed shop because they didn’t work, since they were based on works and human effort.

Like I was trying to say though, “conversion therapy “ even using the Bible, prayer, etc. like they’re some kind of “how to tools” is not the same as transformation by Christ.

That "transformation by Christ" is what they preach and promote. That has been highlighted in several of the links I provided.

 

[firedragon]

Normally Bible says "judge not" - so why do some Christians think it is ok to speak about gays and lesbians in such a disparaging manner?

Though the Bible says judge not or look for hypocrisy, it also condemns homosexuals unequivocally. It piles them up with all kinds of sinners. They are not supposed to inherit the Kingdom of God.

Well, that being said I think religious people all have the tendency of name calling when it comes to many things including homosexuality. But I have also observed ups and downs in this phobia. For example, Atheists were Gay-Bashing in the mid 20th century and could be directly pointed in communist societies. E.g. Joseph Stalins regime. They were jailing homosexuals for unto five years just for being homosexual. You must also note that in history religious regimes have given homosexual rights as well, way before modern society every even thought of it. e.g. The Ottoman Empire. If I am not mistaken they did it in 1853 (maybe a few years here and there).

Also you must note that Christian churches have actually adopted priests who are homosexual. Maybe not all, but at least a few. Also the Catholic Papacy has recognised homosexuality (I am 100% sure to what extent).

Just my observation.

 

[thomas t]

I've actually suffered so much from anti-homosexuality that I generally have problems with religious forums .....

Imagine an online community being ran by an influential evangelical at the head. This evangelical upon outer appearance "seems" to have a busy life and portrays himself as such, but in reality, likes to pick targets and single them out with preaching, even attempting to do a sort of conversion therapy on them.

I became the target of a sort of "conversion therapy". The only solution could have been to leave the online community, as this "Christian" person wouldn't let me opt out.

I finally managed to voice things to the extent that I didn't want to be a part of this conversion therapy any more. As a result, not only was I banned from the community, but some of the people closest to me were too. It was thought they could be negative influences on me that "caused" me to go against this conversion therapy. So they were banned too.

that's a valuable first hand experience. Thank you very much for having posted it KAT-KAT. Must have been difficult for you going through such a procedure.

I recall having been on an online community where gays are flat-out banned from posting their views about homosexuality. For some strange reason, I never saw LGBT+ people post more than what they could write during one day, if I remember right.

But the gay bashing still happened. It was allowed. Calling them mentally ill? Totally fine at that board.
But the moment I criticised it and inspired someone to press the report button, my post was deleted. For "complaining" about other members posts.
So they don't have a discussion about gay bashing, as I see it. At least they didn't use to have one. The bashing just happens and sooner or later they get snowed under with disparaging remarks against LGBT+ people, I'm afraid.
If you enter this board as a LGBT+ person, bullying will await you, I think.

Anyway, a conversion therapy in and of itself is bullying already, I think. The moment you didn't ask for it to happen, as in your case,... it's bullying already, I think.
As others mentioned already here in the thread, there is no scientific study nor a single Bible verse showing that conversion therapy works for LGBT+.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Good choice of the word... Seem.
Like I said... It's an erroneous interpretation.
It not facts.

I didn't imagine your posts on my mind but you're free to be in denial.

 

[thomas t]

Okay, so to say that a rapist is perverted, is bashing, in your opinion. Thanks.
In that case, everyone bashes - not only Christians.
When we say a person is "sick" - not meaning ill - for committing a horrible rape or murder, we are bashing.
I wonder what advise Thomas would give the apostles.
At 1 Corinthians 5:13, apostle Paul said, “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.”
Oh. So you know... Jehovah's Witnesses did not write that.

Comparing LGBT+ people to rapists is the bashing. Comparing them to wicked people is bashing them, too.
Even if pedophilia is a sexual orientation, which I am not sure about...
However, as so many posters in this thread have pointed out already: child abuse has a victim.

There was such a case in the first century congregation.
You can read of that in 1 Corinthians 5. It's a short talk.

so this again is a wrong comparison, as I see it. In Corinthians 5, the people involved could just stop their behavior and that's it.
LGBT+ people, in contrast, are not reported to be easily able to change their sexuality as some church elders might see fit.

This has actually happened to scores of people.
They once had a homosexual lifestyle, but now are Christian - married to a person of the opposite sex.
It was all due to their attitude.

+

It's all about how humble you are.

As I understand these two paragraphs, you are saying that homosexuals can change their sexuality by a mere shift in attitude. This is presumption, I think. You have no data to back that up, in my opinion. No study, no Bible verse, no nothing. It's speculation.

---

God made mankind through procreation.

including LGBT+ people, I think.

Um. The sign was for those entering the building ... ?

Before you posted about a dress code in government buildings, another poster wrote about professing Christians telling her how to dress anywhere. I referred to that one.

i was not talking to you, nor about you.

thanks for clarifying, to me it looked like you did in that post.

I didn't misapply Matthew 7 I think.
I stay with my opinion, you can't compare judging people that attack you to judging people that don't.

I am no counterfeit Christian.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

The implication is that it's proper to bash rapists and murderers and therefore proper to bash gays. That's the logic they're using. They think that rape and murder is morally equivalent to gay sex.

Yes. It’s disturbing just how ignorant of the concept of consent someone is. I would never want to be with a person who lumps consenting relationships with violent harm.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

David and Prince Jonathan were a thing. King Saul tried to kill his son because of it. John is Jesus’s beloved disciple. Like David, Jesus doesn’t cry over any woman. Just men, like Lazarus. I dare Christians to tell Jesus to his face that he is bad for being gay but they still want an eternity in heaven.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Or they could just develop a different understanding of the Bible, or choose a different faith.

Some Christians are confused about their messiah or God. Paul and Moses are neither.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

That "transformation by Christ" is what they preach and promote. That has been highlighted in several of the links I provided.

Maybe it doesn’t work because God’s not against it.

 

[wellwisher]

While I am a big fan of the Christian community, it nourishes me every day...
not everthing is as good as it should be, I think.

These days I see it as a fashion among Christians to bash homosexuals and call them "perverts" and "wicked". At least some do and the rest sometimes stays silent when it happens.

Normally Bible says "judge not" - so why do some Christians think it is ok to speak about gays and lesbians in such a disparaging manner?
Judging and condemning happened in the Bible. Paul judged Alexander, for instance. But before, he was getting attacked by Alexander. Homosexuals don't usually attack Christians even if some of them call the former "peril of the youth" - without providing the slightest substanciation for this weird claim of course. By substanciation I mean a Bible verse or a scientific study...

Paul even goes on to teach that people living in sexual sin should even be removed from the churches.*

But never Bible calls for the insulting of other minorities.

Pointing this out within the Christian communities sometimes gets tricky, too.
They say you were "the accuser of the brethren" or interrupted the peace inside of the community.
I sometimes even heard I was purportedly judging the ones who judge homosexuals.
Merely pointing out disparaging remarks judges noone, though. Criticising a statement does not mean criticising the person.

Thomas

Disclaimer: I am neutral towards whether the Bible considers homosexuality or its practice sinful.

* 1 Corinthians 5:7

One of the main problems is leftist secularism, via Hollywood, tries to promote and wave homosexuality in everyone's face. At its best, the goal is to desensitize people ,by over saturating them, until they no longer over react. However, if it was below the radar, there would less over reaction by those not easily desensitize by such a strategy.

If you were a heterosexual you might would react similarly to a heterosexual couple getting too frisky in public. Not everyone want to see that. However, very few care if this is kept private. Gays are not below the radar and this pushes the wrong buttons to their own detriment. There is almost a uniform to create a target. It is a very simple cause and affect.

Consider the relatively new PC word taboos imposed by leftist theology. If you say the wrong buzz word, the tribe is trained to respond in an angry way. On the other hand, if you only think the words or say them in private, but do not express them in public or in ear shot of a leftist; below their radar, the tribe is more tolerant. It is simple cause and affect. It happens in all areas of life.

Bill Clinton helped homosexuals be more accepted in the Services by the policy, "don't ask and don't tell." Some people cannot control certain trained and/or natural reflexes, and can go over board when stimulated, so you need to protect yourself and them, by keeping certain things below the radar. It is like asking a spouse if they ever cheated on you. This may be a question best not asked or answered. It can open a can of worms.

If you wish to divide people, you trick certain scapegoats, into over providing the very stimulus that pushes certain buttons of others, and does them no good. Then you blame those who overreact. This is the modern Progressive divisive strategy for recruitment using manipulative redirect.

Homosexuality is not consistent with Darwinism. The reason is evolution requires breeding so genes; DNA, can pass forward. These passed forward genes control the impulses. Atheists should know this. Homosexuality precludes or limits sexual production, by default, yet this type of behavior perpetuates. This tells us this is not by genetic transmission, so it needs to be learned or conditioned and therefore involves choice and will at some level. It is being misrepresented by atheist secularism with the goal of division.

The goal appears to be to create division by calling what is willful, natural, and what is a natural reaction to willful, as artificial. Let us settle this conflict with science and Darwin.