Fulfillment of Prophecy in the New Testament

[rosends]

Even you and Rashi do not think that the servant in Ex 21:6 would stay a slave for ever.

That's true -- partially because the word does not have the adjunct word that turns it into the phrase meaning "forever."

It is either till the Jubilee (when it is questionable that the servant would even leave then---------and which seems to be a strange reason to make "forever" equal to 49 years or less). He would be a slave till the end of the law for him.

Well, that's your personal interpretation I guess. Have fun with that.

The law actually does apply in the New Covenant but is not a list of Does and Don'ts. It's a new heart and the Spirit of God in us and knowing God and His wishes.

So the law applies but it isn't a series of laws. It identifies its content but that isn't what it means. Brilliant.

But Jews seem to know everything about the New Covenant even without experiencing it.

Well, we know what the text says -- that the content is the same but that we will change. Nothing in the text refers to changing the laws.

I have said that the Greek word in Heb 13:20,21 is not the same word as in Ex 21:6 in the LXX, but you ignore that. You have said that the Hebrew word in Ex 21:6 means "forever" and we have worked out that this does not mean for eternity.

Well, actually, I said a whole lot more than that, but you see what you want to see I guess. You don't remember things I said when that works well for you, so, water under the bridge.

I don't need other grammatical and linguistic constructs to know that a person is not under the law after death and that a person does not remain a slave into eternity.

Which means then that after death, the law disappears and when someone is resurrected, that person can't be under a law that has disappeared.

I don't see that the Mosaic Law forces someone to leave slavery at Jubilee if they do not want to. It says that the slave should be given freedom, but that does not force an unwilling slave to take it.

Because you don't know Jewish law. You know, the law that Jesus knew? The content of the Torah that is the covenant?

The Law in our mind and in our heart is not the 613 Mitzvah you hold to, but the love which is the foundation of those commands is what goes into eternity.

You see -- this is the essence of your error. The text says that the renewed covenant IS the law, but you insist that the text is wrong and that the law isn't what the text says it is. The language is clear. You have to misread it and force your theology in, contrary to the explicit text. That's your choice.

 

[Brian2]

No, the verses do not say that the Holy Spirit is the Paraclete. They say that the Spirit of truth will guide you into all truth

John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Father sent the Holy Ghost to Baha’u’llah, just like the Father sent the Holy Ghost to Jesus. Jesus and Baha’u’llah both brought the Holy Ghost to humanity, and that is what they are referred to as Comforters, since the Holy Ghost comforts people.

Jesus was the Comforter; Baha’u’llah was another Comforter and the Spirit of truth. These are titles given to them just like Son of Man is a title, since it represents the perfect humanity Jesus represented.

John 14:16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

I don't know how you can say that the verses do not say that the Holy Spirit is the Paraclete/Comforter, when John 14:26 says: "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
and when the people Jesus was speaking to are His disciples who heard what Jesus had said to them and so could be reminded of that.
Also with John 14:17, we know that the Holy Spirit was given to the disciples Jesus was speaking to, to dwell with them and be in them. That also identifies the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of Truth.
To add to this we have John 15:26 which says: 26 "When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father— the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father— He will testify about Me."
This identifies the Advocate/Comforter/Paraclete as the Spirit of Truth. The Advocate/Comforter has already been identified as the Holy Spirit in John 14:26,,,,,,,,,,,,this means that the Holy Spirit is the Comforter and is the Spirit of Truth.
It is simple to see and understand but you want to impose Baha'i doctrine on the verses and change the meaning that is so simple to see and understand.

But it is not taught that way in the New Testament. All Christians know that the the Day of Pentecost was a specific day and it does not extend into the last days. You are grasping at straws.

The last days is taught in the New Testament to start at the time of Jesus. It's that simple.

Acts 2:2-4 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

In that same chapter in which we find the Pentecost account, we have this:

Acts 2:17-21And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

God poured His Spirit out on the Day of Pentecost and then it was prophesied that God would pour His Spirit out AGAIN in the last days, and that is exactly what happened when God sent Baha’u’llah, who was the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth.

Acts 2:15,16 tells us: "15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:"
This is identifying the prophecy of Joel as what was happening on that Day of Pentecost.

Don’t try to pull that. You are misrepresenting me. I have been explaining what I believe the verses mean to you for six years, my interpretation of the verses -- and I never said “Baha'u'llah says he is the Spirit of Truth so that is what it means". That is so dishonest. You are getting really desperate aren’t you?

You never said “Baha'u'llah says he is the Spirit of Truth so that is what it means" but since the verses plainly do not tell us what you claim they mean (as I have explained above) you may as well have said that.

The Church misled Christians into believing that the Comforter and Spirit of truth are the Holy Spirit that Jesus sent to live inside of them, but anyone can figure out that a spirit living inside of people cannot DO any of the following things that are in John 14, 15 and 16; only a man could do those things:

• Teach you all things
• Call to remembrance what Jesus said
• Testify of Jesus
• Glorify Jesus, receive of Jesus, and shew it unto you
• Guide you into all truth
• Speak what He hears and shew you things to come
• Reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement.

It is not the Church who has led Christians into believing those things, it is the very words of Jesus which tell us what the job of the Holy Spirit was and is to be. The Holy Spirit does amazing things in the minds and hearts of people. How do you think that prophets were told about what would happen in the future? Through the Holy Spirit telling them.

The growth rates of the Abrahamic religions from 1910-2010 were as follows: Judaism .11%, Christianity 1.32%, Islam 1.97%, and Baha’i Faith 3.54%.

Percentages do not show numbers and growth amongst the Muslims (Muslim converts to Christianity) is said to be quite large as in Communist countries also. The figures do not show this.

It means that the Christ Spirit came while Jesus remained in heaven to be with Baha'u'llah and God (and all the other Messengers of God who ever lived).

What made Jesus the Christ was the Christ Spirit, not His body. After Jesus died He is still Jesus in heaven because He has an individual soul that is eternal and distinct from any other human.

Are you saying Jesus was in heaven while on earth?
John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven— the Son of Man.
More modern translations do not say that Jesus was in heaven while on earth as the KJV does.
KJV John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Even the New KJV has the same because I guess some people are a bit funny about the KJV and see it as an inspired translation, when in fact it seems it is a flawed translation in places even if it has it's good points.

There is no physical throne where a King sits. Throne is figurative for ruling with great power. Jesus is ruling in heaven; Baha’u’llah sat in the throne of David on earth because he brought the Most Great law.

Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

“The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He re-interpreted and completed the Law of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His word conquered the East and the West. His Kingdom is everlasting.” Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks[/QUOTE]

The quote goes on to speak of Jesus as ruling on the throne of David forever. Do all the Manifestations, who are all the Christ presumably, rule on the throne of David with Jesus forever?

Luke 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”

You see my problem is that the Bible speaks of these things as being about Jesus only and Baha'i imposes Baha'i theology, with interpretation, and claims that they are about Baha'u'llah or also about Baha'u'llah.

 

[Muffled]

Hi,
It might seem like a different religion. But it involves the same God. It is actually the New Covenant that God foretold about in the book of Jeremiah. So of course things would be different in a new covenant.
However the main stream belief in the Trinity is not correct.

I believe the Trinity is correct but I am not sure what you mean by the main stream.

 

[Muffled]

such as what?

I believe the Gospels are an example. The story is repeated in each one of them with some variations.

 

[Muffled]

I do not see it that way at all. The prophecy is fulfilled in the year AH1260 which is AD1844 and it is AD1844 that the Biblical sums add up to.

The prophecy to me is saying the Two Witnesses had power for those 1260 years.

The year AH1260, is simply AD1844. I do not need to calculate 1260.

Makes sense that the Bible in the OT shows us 1844 and mentions 1260 as Christ was still to come. Then Revelation tells us of 1260 as Islam now has control over the Holy Land.

There is no clearer Prophecy for any Messenger. And it shows the OT foretold of Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

IMHO

Regards Tony

I believe that is totally out of context.

 

[Trailblazer]

It is a shame the Jews don't want to look at the bigger picture of who is going to sit on that throne forever......

It is also a shame that the Christians do not want to look at who sat on the throne in the 19th century....
Granted, Jesus is still sitting on the throne, but that throne is in heaven...

Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

“The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He re-interpreted and completed the Law of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His word conquered the East and the West. His Kingdom is everlasting.” Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks

The throne from which Jesus rules will not be on earth, because Jesus cannot be in two places at once...

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Why would Jesus waste His time coming back to earth when He is needed in heaven? Besides, heaven is much more important than earth, since that is where we will all be spending eternity!

 

[CG Didymus]

To check this out you should go to the first couple of posts on this thread between me, @Harel13 and @Rival, as we were discussing this and they provided me with pretty useful links to the Jewish understanding. I also had this discussion with @Brian2.

From what I read, the context of chapter 9 is linked to chapters 7, 8 and others. To me the Christian and Baha'i isolate certain verses from the overall context to suit there claims, so I would only accept the conclusion that accommodates the context. I often look to Quora to get various detailed answers to a question. Check out the below link:

How do Jewish people interpret Isaiah 9:6? - Quora.

Thanks, I'll do that.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't know how you can say that the verses do not say that the Holy Spirit is the Paraclete/Comforter, when John 14:26 says: "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

As I have told you repeatedly. The Comforter is the Holy Spirit that the Father sent to Baha’u’llah. The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God that comforts people. That is why the verse says “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost.” Jesus was a Comforter and Baha’u’llah was another Comforter.

John 14:16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Also with John 14:17, we know that the Holy Spirit was given to the disciples Jesus was speaking to, to dwell with them and be in them. That also identifies the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of Truth.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

No, we do not know that, that is a Christian belief. The Baha’i belief is that the Spirit of truth was Baha’u’llah.

To add to this we have John 15:26 which says: 26 "When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father— the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father— He will testify about Me."

This identifies the Advocate/Comforter/Paraclete as the Spirit of Truth.

That is correct. The Advocate/Comforter/Paraclete is the Spirit of Truth, and that was Baha’u’llah, according to Baha’i beliefs.

Baha’u’llah testified of Jesus, Just as Jesus said He would do. Referring to Jesus as the Son of Man, Baha’u’llah wrote:

“We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 85-86

It is not the Church who has led Christians into believing those things, it is the very words of Jesus which tell us what the job of the Holy Spirit was and is to be.

What the job of the Holy Spirit was, according to the NT, is one thing; what the job of the Holy Spirit will be in the future is another matter. You have your interpretation, I have mine.

Are you saying Jesus was in heaven while on earth?

No, I am not saying that. When Jesus walked the earth, the body and soul of Jesus was on earth, but after the body of Jesus died His soul ascended to heaven.

The spirit of Jesus was in heaven before He was born on earth, and then God sent His Spirit to earth and the spirit of Jesus came down from heaven of the Will of God.

“The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He re-interpreted and completed the Law of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His word conquered the East and the West. His Kingdom is everlasting.” Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks

The quote goes on to speak of Jesus as ruling on the throne of David forever. Do all the Manifestations, who are all the Christ presumably, rule on the throne of David with Jesus forever?

No, I would not say that they all rule on the throne of David with Jesus forever because that quote refers to Jesus; so only Jesus rules on the throne of David forever in heaven. The other Manifestations of God are with Jesus in heaven, but they are not ruling. What it actually means to be ruling we cannot understand because we do not even know what heaven will be like.

Luke 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.

You see my problem is that the Bible speaks of these things as being about Jesus only and Baha'i imposes Baha'i theology, with interpretation, and claims that they are about Baha'u'llah or also about Baha'u'llah.

No, we do not claim that verse is about Baha’u’llah. Abdu’l-Baha said it is about Jesus. Baha’u’llah sat on the throne of David in this earthly world, not in heaven. The reason He sat on the throne of David is because He brought the Most Great Law, and Laws are associated with Kingdoms on earth.

“THE Most Great Law is come, and the Ancient Beauty ruleth upon the throne of David. Thus hath My Pen spoken that which the histories of bygone ages have related. At this time, however, David crieth aloud and saith: ‘O my loving Lord! Do Thou number me with such as have stood steadfast in Thy Cause, O Thou through Whom the faces have been illumined, and the footsteps have slipped!’” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 89-90

 

[CG Didymus]

I believe that is totally out of context.

I do not see it that way at all. The prophecy is fulfilled in the year AH1260 which is AD1844 and it is AD1844 that the Biblical sums add up to.

The prophecy to me is saying the Two Witnesses had power for those 1260 years.

The year AH1260, is simply AD1844. I do not need to calculate 1260.

Makes sense that the Bible in the OT shows us 1844 and mentions 1260 as Christ was still to come. Then Revelation tells us of 1260 as Islam now has control over the Holy Land.

There is no clearer Prophecy for any Messenger. And it shows the OT foretold of Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

The Gentiles will trample on the holy city for 42 months, which is converted to 1260 years. The two witnesses will prophesy for 1,260 days. Then they are killed. For three and a half days their bodies sit in the street. After the three and a half days they come alive. So they already did something for 1260 days, which gets turned into 1260 years. They are killed and their bodies sit in the street for 31/2 days, which is converted to 1260 years. So that should be 2520 years? But no. All cover the same time period from 621AD to 1844. Plus, all that took place during the 2nd Woe, which is supposedly The Bab.

Next... A woman gives birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And she flees into the wilderness for 1,260 days, which is converted to 1260 years. Later the woman is taken again for a time, times and half a time, to be kept out of the serpent’s reach. This is also converted to 1260 years. After this a beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months, which is converted to 1260 years.

All of these also... start with the Hegira in 621AD and end in 1844. One or two might be close enough to make sense... but, what is it? Six times? No, the worst being the Beast, who Baha'is say is the Umayyads. They did not start in 621AD and they didn't end in 1844. That's a big stretch to make that one fit. But I know you do. And Baha'is seem perfectly content to believe it. And that's what is so troubling.

And I agree with you. Six times they use the 1260 years?

 

[CG Didymus]

“Baha'u'llah says he is the Spirit of Truth

I haven't finished reading your "discussion", but I did a search and found this...

Baha’u’llah declared himself as the “Spirit of Truth” (or “Comforter”) predicted by Jesus in his “Farewell Discourse” (John 13:31–16:33):

Announce thou unto the priests: Lo! He Who is the Ruler is come. Step out from behind the veil in the name of thy Lord, He Who layeth low the necks of all men. Proclaim then unto all mankind the glad-tidings of this mighty, this glorious Revelation. Verily, He Who is the Spirit of Truth is come to guide you unto all truth. He speaketh not as prompted by His own self, but as bidden by Him Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. Say, this is the One Who hath glorified the Son and hath exalted His Cause. – Baha’u’llah, “The Most Holy Tablet” (also known as the “Tablet to the Christians”), Tablets of Baha’u’llah, p. 12.
​

 

[Brian2]

Moses did some bad things but that does not mean God considered Moses a sinner. As for Adam and Eve, Baha’is do not believe those were real people, but rather that was just an allegorical story. It is not only Baha’is who believe it is an allegory, many people believe that, even some Christians.

If we do some bad things, things against the will of God, we have sinned and therefore are sinners. So the Biblical Moses was no sinless Messenger.
Whether symbolic or not Baha'i says Adam was a Messenger. And the Biblical Adam certainly went against what God told him not to do. Another Biblical sinner names as a sinless Messenger by Baha'i.

Why would Baha’u’llah have to do what Jesus already did? Baha’u’llah had different work to do. Baha’u’llah suffered and sacrificed for 40 years; it was not His mission for Him to die before he could write His 15,000, Tablets which would be necessary to guide mankind for at least the next 1000 years. However, the Bab was martyred after only a six year mission, similar to Jesus.

You sound like you are thinking along the same lines I think along. I wonder why Baha'u'llah is indeed needed at all since Jesus did it all and provides everything we need.

Jesus had no children so He could not have fulfilled Isaiah 53:10. Baha’u’llah had children so Isa 53:10 is about Baha’u’llah.

I'm a child of Jesus and I know plenty more.

You cannot have it both ways. If Jesus was resurrected He was not buried in His grave so He could not have fulfilled Isaiah 53:9. If Jesus was buried in His grave then His body is dead so Jesus can never return in the same body.

I know what "resurrection" means in the Bible and so Jesus would have had to die physically before He could be resurrected.

 

[Trailblazer]

If we do some bad things, things against the will of God, we have sinned and therefore are sinners. So the Biblical Moses was no sinless Messenger.
Whether symbolic or not Baha'i says Adam was a Messenger. And the Biblical Adam certainly went against what God told him not to do. Another Biblical sinner names as a sinless Messenger by Baha'i.

All this is according to your interpretation and thus your understanding of the Bible and what you consider a sin. Baha’u’llah said that Moses was not a sinner, and He explained why Moses was not a sinner in The Kitáb-i-Íqán, so as far as I am concerned that trumps any Christian interpretation because Baha’u’llah is the latest Manifestation of God. Baha’is do not believe that the fictitious Adam who lived with Eve in the Garden of Eden. We believe that Adam was the first Prophet of the Adamic Cycle of religion.

You sound like you are thinking along the same lines I think along. I wonder why Baha'u'llah is indeed needed at all since Jesus did it all and provides everything we need.

Jesus did not provide everything we needed for all of time and that is why we needed Bahaullah to reveal the “many things” that Jesus held back, since humanity was not ready to hear them 2000 years ago.

John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

I'm a child of Jesus and I know plenty more.

Or so you believe.

I know what "resurrection" means in the Bible and so Jesus would have had to die physically before He could be resurrected.

Definition of resurrect

1 : to raise from the dead
2 : to bring to view, attention, or use again

Definition of RESURRECT​

Definition 2 is congruent with what Abdu’l-Baha said happened. The Cause of Christ was brought back to life after three days.

“Therefore, we say that the meaning of Christ’s resurrection is as follows: the disciples were troubled and agitated after the martyrdom of Christ. The Reality of Christ, which signifies His teachings, His bounties, His perfections and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and was not resplendent and manifest. No, rather it was lost, for the believers were few in number and were troubled and agitated. The Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body; and when after three days the disciples became assured and steadfast, and began to serve the Cause of Christ, and resolved to spread the divine teachings, putting His counsels into practice, and arising to serve Him, the Reality of Christ became resplendent and His bounty appeared; His religion found life; His teachings and His admonitions became evident and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body until the life and the bounty of the Holy Spirit surrounded it.” Some Answered Questions, p. 104

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

23: THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST

How do you resurrect someone?

To resurrect is to bring someone back from the dead. You can also resurrect things that are inactive or out of use. If you've ever seen someone bring a dead person back to life in a science fiction or fantasy movie, you saw them resurrect someone.
resurrect - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com​

What happened in the NT narratives is that Jesus was brought back from the dead as a person is brought back to life in a science fiction or fantasy movie,

English Language Learners Definition of resurrection

: the event told about in the Bible in which Jesus Christ returned to life after his death.
: the event told about in the Bible in which dead people will be brought back to life before the day of final judgment.
Resurrection | Definition of Resurrection by Merriam-Webster​

Please note that the definition says "the event told about n the Bible" which means these are stories that are told in the Bible. They are not actual events that happened or that will happen in the future. Just because Christians believe they happened or will happen that does not mean they did or will.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There is no special Bible meaning of resurrection. All we have is how people interpret the world to mean.

What does resurrection mean in Christianity?

Resurrection or anastasis is the concept of coming back to life after death. ... While most Christians believe Jesus' resurrection from the dead and ascension to Heaven was in a material body, a very small minority believes it was spiritual.
Resurrection - Wikipedia​

 

[Brian2]

All this is according to your interpretation and thus your understanding of the Bible and what you consider a sin. Baha’u’llah said that Moses was not a sinner, and He explained why Moses was not a sinner in The Kitáb-i-Íqán, so as far as I am concerned that trumps any Christian interpretation because Baha’u’llah is the latest Manifestation of God. Baha’is do not believe that the fictitious Adam who lived with Eve in the Garden of Eden. We believe that Adam was the first Prophet of the Adamic Cycle of religion.

That is good, none of this interpretation rubbish, just a straight out declaration "We don't believe this and that of what the Bible tells us, we believe Baha'u'llah instead".

Jesus did not provide everything we needed for all of time and that is why we needed Bahaullah to reveal the “many things” that Jesus held back, since humanity was not ready to hear them 2000 years ago.

The disciples of Jesus were not ready to hear certain things, they had been brought up in Judaism and Judaism had some things wrong. The Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit, has revealed things to both His disciples and to us.
What is it that you think the that humanity was not ready to hear then and which Baha'u'llah has revealed.

Definition 2 is congruent with what Abdu’l-Baha said happened. The Cause of Christ was brought back to life after three days.

In the Bible it is the resurrection of Jesus from the dead bodily, just as He said He would and just as the OT tells us He would, which is what convinced His disciples that He was whom He claimed.
Otherwise they just made up a story to trick people and stole Jesus body to trick people and preached about Jesus as if He was someone from God when He was not, and the whole of Christianity is a lie.

 

[Brian2]

Why would Jesus waste His time coming back to earth when He is needed in heaven? Besides, heaven is much more important than earth, since that is where we will all be spending eternity!

Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever.”
Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man, and He will dwell with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God.…

 

[Brian2]

As I have told you repeatedly. The Comforter is the Holy Spirit that the Father sent to Baha’u’llah. The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God that comforts people. That is why the verse says “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost.” Jesus was a Comforter and Baha’u’llah was another Comforter.

You say that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit that the Father sent to Baha'u'llah and the following verses say that the Comforter is the Spirit of Truth especially if you read the verses as one sentence, as they were meant to be read.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

That is correct. The Advocate/Comforter/Paraclete is the Spirit of Truth, and that was Baha’u’llah, according to Baha’i beliefs.

So do you see a problem here? The first thing you said in the first quote is that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit that the Father sent to Baha'u'llah.
Now you say that the Comforter is the Spirit of Truth.
If the Comforter is the Holy Spirit and if the Comforter is the Spirit of Truth then that means that the Spirit of Truth is the Holy Spirit.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

No, we do not claim that verse is about Baha’u’llah. Abdu’l-Baha said it is about Jesus. Baha’u’llah sat on the throne of David in this earthly world, not in heaven. The reason He sat on the throne of David is because He brought the Most Great Law, and Laws are associated with Kingdoms on earth.

So Luke 1:32,33 is about Jesus. I have been saying this for years.
Are there 2 thrones of David then?
Does Baha'u'llah sit on the earthly one forever or is Baha'u'llah in heaven now with Jesus who is ruling on the heavenly throne of David?

 

[TrueBeliever37]

I believe the Trinity is correct but I am not sure what you mean by the main stream.

The majority of Christianity believes in the Trinity. I only believe in one God, and therefore am in the minority.

I mean, I realize Trinitarians say they only believe in one God. They have to say that because the scripture says there is only one God. But: 1 God + 1 God + 1 God cannot equal 1 God. And they aren't taking the view that each person is 1/3 of God. If you have more than one person, that is each totally and completely God, and yet claim that they are distinct individuals - that is more than one God.

The scripture gives the answer, but most won't really accept it. God is a Spirit - John 4:24 But they insist on saying he is 3 different persons.

 

[CG Didymus]

If we do some bad things, things against the will of God, we have sinned and therefore are sinners. So the Biblical Moses was no sinless Messenger.
Whether symbolic or not Baha'i says Adam was a Messenger. And the Biblical Adam certainly went against what God told him not to do. Another Biblical sinner names as a sinless Messenger by Baha'i.

I've asked this so many times. Jews and Christians don't make Adam, Noah, Abraham or even Moses "manifestations" of God. But Adam? He's symbolic but a manifestation?

In the Bible it is the resurrection of Jesus from the dead bodily, just as He said He would and just as the OT tells us He would, which is what convinced His disciples that He was whom He claimed.
Otherwise they just made up a story to trick people and stole Jesus body to trick people and preached about Jesus as if He was someone from God when He was not, and the whole of Christianity is a lie.

Whether or not the resurrection is true is a different question... does the NT teach that Jesus did rise from the dead? I think it does. Baha'is would rather say it is symbolic. That way they can deny it physically happened, but still claim that they believe in the NT... only spiritually, not literally.

Would have been nice if God would have let the gospel writers know that, then they could have worded the story differently. "Mary went to the tomb, and behold, Jesus' body was still their but his spirit had risen. Later, the disciples gathered together and realized that the Lord had risen spiritually and they should carry on his teachings of peace and love and unity like his spiritual return will complete in the future. And the return will be called the Comforter and Spirit of Truth, but will not be the same person. It will be a new "Christ" in a new body and will come from a new land."

 

[Trailblazer]

What is it that you think the that humanity was not ready to hear then and which Baha'u'llah has revealed.

All the new teachings that Baha'u'llah revealed in His Writings, such as the oneness of mankind, the attainment of world peace, social and economic justice, the elimination of all kinds of prejudice, the equality of men and women, a universal auxiliary language, universal education, stuff like that.

Otherwise they just made up a story to trick people and stole Jesus body to trick people and preached about Jesus as if He was someone from God when He was not, and the whole of Christianity is a lie.

I believe it was a made up story, but there is no way to know what it was made up because we cannot go back in time and ask the writers why they made it up.

If it was made up, it does not make all of Christianity a lie, it only means part of the NT was not a true story.
That still leaves us with all the teachings of Jesus and the cross sacrifice which are the truth.

 

[Trailblazer]

Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever.”

Baha'is believe that Baha'u'llah was the seventh angel.

“The seventh angel is a man qualified with heavenly attributes, who will arise with heavenly qualities and character. Voices will be raised, so that the appearance of the Divine Manifestation will be proclaimed and diffused. In the day of the manifestation of the Lord of Hosts, and at the epoch of the divine cycle of the Omnipotent which is promised and mentioned in all the books and writings of the Prophets—in that day of God, the Spiritual and Divine Kingdom will be established, and the world will be renewed…..” Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, pp. 56-57

Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man, and He will dwell with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God.…

Baha'is believe that Baha'u'llah brought the new Jerusalem, which was the new Law of God. Law of God refers to the entire Revelation of Baha'u'llah, not just His Book of Laws.

“The time foreordained unto the peoples and kindreds of the earth is now come. The promises of God, as recorded in the holy Scriptures, have all been fulfilled. Out of Zion hath gone forth the Law of God, and Jerusalem, and the hills and land thereof, are filled with the glory of His Revelation. Happy is the man that pondereth in his heart that which hath been revealed in the Books of God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. Meditate upon this, O ye beloved of God, and let your ears be attentive unto His Word, so that ye may, by His grace and mercy, drink your fill from the crystal waters of constancy, and become as steadfast and immovable as the mountain in His Cause.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 12-13

 

[Trailblazer]

You say that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit that the Father sent to Baha'u'llah and the following verses say that the Comforter is the Spirit of Truth especially if you read the verses as one sentence, as they were meant to be read.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

So do you see a problem here? The first thing you said in the first quote is that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit that the Father sent to Baha'u'llah.
Now you say that the Comforter is the Spirit of Truth.
If the Comforter is the Holy Spirit and if the Comforter is the Spirit of Truth then that means that the Spirit of Truth is the Holy Spirit.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Comforter is the Holy Spirit that the Father sent to Baha'u'llah.
The Comforter is also a title that was given to Baha'u'llah because He brought the Holy Spirit to humanity.

Yes, the Comforter is the Spirit of Truth.
The Spirit of Truth is a title of the man who was also the Comforter, so the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth designate one person, Baha'u'llah.

So Luke 1:32,33 is about Jesus. I have been saying this for years.
Are there 2 thrones of David then?
Does Baha'u'llah sit on the earthly one forever or is Baha'u'llah in heaven now with Jesus who is ruling on the heavenly throne of David?

Baha'u'llah is sitting on the earthly throne, but not forever; only until the next Manifestation of God comes to earth and brings a new Law. At least that is my understanding of it. Baha'u'llah s now in heaven with Jesus, who is ruling on the heavenly throne of David forever.