The UK submits to USA blackmail over Huawei.

[Terrywoodenpic]

The UK government has made the dangerous choice to submit to American black mail over continuing the partnership with Huawei in the supply and installation of the 5G network. According to engineers it is largely a dumb pipe network that is no danger to anyone.

We have fallen to the paranoia of Trump with far reaching consequences to our trade investment and political relationships with China and the far East.
It will be exceedingly damaging to the many large companies now owned or jointly owned in the UK by China. It will have far reaching affects on employment, trade and finances.

China is far more important to our future than is the USA. Yet we have given America power over our decision making and future prosperity...

With the Huawei system The 5G network in the UK is built on the top of the 3 and 4G one built by Huawei with very little additional equipment required. It has not been decided if this 3 And 4G backbone has to be removed as well. If it is, it will set the program back even further. And most likely seriously reduce even the existing 4g coverage for a number of years. All this on the tenuous idea that China might have secret access.

I would suggest that any country could gain any access to the network of any country they might wish to, without having any special privileges at all. It will always be down to ourselves as to how secure the network remains. It does no rely on who supplied some of the hardware.

I can not see China remaining neutral on this turn of events. It will turn out to be a very costly mistake for us. And remove any remaining financial industrial and trade influence that we may have had in the far Eastern world. This will cause lasting damage to our future prospects outside the EU.

Our world trade prospects under this government are worsening by the day.

 

[Kenny]

The UK government has made the dangerous choice to submit to American black mail over continuing the partnership with Huawei in the supply and installation of the 5G network. According to engineers it is largely a dumb pipe network that is no danger to anyone.

We have fallen to the paranoia of Trump with far reaching consequences to our trade investment and political relationships with China and the far East.
It will be exceedingly damaging to the many large companies now owned or jointly owned in the UK by China. It will have far reaching affects on employment, trade and finances.

China is far more important to our future than is the USA. Yet we have given America power over our decision making and future prosperity...

With the Huawei system The 5G network in the UK is built on the top of the 3 and 4G one built by Huawei with very little additional equipment required. It has not been decided if this 3 And 4G backbone has to be removed as well. If it is, it will set the program back even further. And most likely seriously reduce even the existing 4g coverage for a number of years. All this on the tenuous idea that China might have secret access.

I would suggest that any country could gain any access to the network of any country they might wish to, without having any special privileges at all. It will always be down to ourselves as to how secure the network remains. It does no rely on who supplied some of the hardware.

I can not see China remaining neutral on this turn of events. It will turn out to be a very costly mistake for us. And remove any remaining financial industrial and trade influence that we may have had in the far Eastern world. This will cause lasting damage to our future prospects outside the EU.

Our world trade prospects under this government are worsening by the day.

A wise decision.... the Chinese are not our friends.

 

[Stevicus]

The UK government has made the dangerous choice to submit to American black mail over continuing the partnership with Huawei in the supply and installation of the 5G network. According to engineers it is largely a dumb pipe network that is no danger to anyone.

We have fallen to the paranoia of Trump with far reaching consequences to our trade investment and political relationships with China and the far East.
It will be exceedingly damaging to the many large companies now owned or jointly owned in the UK by China. It will have far reaching affects on employment, trade and finances.

China is far more important to our future than is the USA. Yet we have given America power over our decision making and future prosperity...

With the Huawei system The 5G network in the UK is built on the top of the 3 and 4G one built by Huawei with very little additional equipment required. It has not been decided if this 3 And 4G backbone has to be removed as well. If it is, it will set the program back even further. And most likely seriously reduce even the existing 4g coverage for a number of years. All this on the tenuous idea that China might have secret access.

I would suggest that any country could gain any access to the network of any country they might wish to, without having any special privileges at all. It will always be down to ourselves as to how secure the network remains. It does no rely on who supplied some of the hardware.

I can not see China remaining neutral on this turn of events. It will turn out to be a very costly mistake for us. And remove any remaining financial industrial and trade influence that we may have had in the far Eastern world. This will cause lasting damage to our future prospects outside the EU.

Our world trade prospects under this government are worsening by the day.

Are you certain that it's the UK submitting to US blackmail? Aren't there those in Britain who are just as paranoid as some Americans?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Are you certain that it's the UK submitting to US blackmail? Aren't there those in Britain who are just as paranoid as some Americans?

Yes indeed.... but it is a right wing section of the Tory party that wants to get into bed with the USA and were leaders in the Brexit battle...
The same people who want to privatise the NHS, and import American, chlorine washed chicken , antibiotic fed beef and GM crops.
they want the UK to be a puppet of the USA.
You should not forget William Hague is a product of the secretive right wing McKinsey & Company who promotes "leaders" in positions of power where ever they can influence the most people. and has been a leader of this group in the Tory party since he was first elected.
he is passionately pro US.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Terrywoodenpic I don't know a lot about this issue.

It will always be down to ourselves as to how secure the network remains. It does no rely on who supplied some of the hardware.

Maybe. It matters to me what is in my processing hardware and what it does when nobody is looking. I resent that my computer has secret instructions and secret processor directives. You said 5G was a 'Dumb pipe' protocol. I've never head of that before. I guess in a way you're suggesting its sort of like a radio band? It is except that the info is handled by programmable processors. It has similarities and differences. Some of your stuff ought to be made in-house and by neither China nor USA.

China is far more important to our future than is the USA.

Caving to China's political pressure is preferable to caving to USA's? I guess...

We have fallen to the paranoia of Trump with far reaching consequences to our trade investment and political relationships with China and the far East.

I am sorry if that has happened. Political ties are not great right now between my country and China. Part of it is the whole Hong Kong thing and China's threats and exorbitant claims in the south china sea and things like that. Part of it is probably paranoia, not that there aren't some reasons to be paranoid. I don't think China is that interested in the UK military, so you have a lot less reason to be infected by US paranoia. Your country is involved, however, in various treaties and has important votes in international organizations. You have affiliations with Hong Kong, and you're definitely under some pressure to politically endorse China's actions.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

A wise decision.... the Chinese are not our friends.

That has become a position increasingly promoted by Trump and the right of the republican party, and is gaining some traction in the west including the UK. China would prefer to be friends with the west. However if the west persists in regarding them as enemies, the danger is clear for all to see. It is a position of envy of Chinese success in trade and technical superiority in manufacturing. rather than compete with them the USA and The USA are trying to freeze them out with bans and phoney scare stories.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Terrywoodenpic I don't know a lot about this issue.
Maybe. It matters to me what is in my processing hardware and what it does when nobody is looking. I resent that my computer has secret instructions and secret processor directives. You said 5G was a 'Dumb pipe' protocol. I've never head of that before. I guess in a way you're suggesting its sort of like a radio band? It is except that the info is handled by programmable processors. It has similarities and differences. Some of your stuff ought to be made in-house and by neither China nor USA.

Caving to China's political pressure is preferable to caving to USA's? I guess...


I am sorry if that has happened. Political ties are not great right now between my country and China. Part of it is the whole Hong Kong thing and China's threats and exorbitant claims in the south china sea and things like that. Part of it is probably paranoia, not that there aren't some reasons to be paranoid. I don't think China is that interested in the UK military, so you have a lot less reason to be infected by US paranoia. Your country is involved, however, in various treaties and has important votes in international organizations. You have affiliations with Hong Kong, and you're definitely under some pressure to politically endorse China's actions.

Who ever makes the hardware , processors and firmware. there are numerous countries with the necessary skill sets to break into it and control, disrupt or otherwise create mayhem. the Difficulty for the UK is that the USA has banned the supply of the necessary chips to Huawei, who will now have to source them elsewhere, (probably China) this has made it easier not more difficult. to create back doors into the system.
Our Experts in Cheltenham, it seems, have not detected any such hanky-panky and the systems to now are clean.

Prior to this the Huawei equipment was internationally sourced and as safe as any other.
I would however suggest that all communication equipment is wide open to attack as it is continuously open to use by anyone with the necessary skills. any replacement of Huawei equipment will be equally open to attack. probably more so as it is less sophisticated.

No American company has either the resources or skills to compete in that market. nor has there been, since the departure of T&T. so America is inevitably relying on foreign suppliers for the full telecommunication package.

 

[Kenny]

That has become a position increasingly promoted by Trump and the right of the republican party, and is gaining some traction in the west including the UK. China would prefer to be friends with the west. However if the west persists in regarding them as enemies, the danger is clear for all to see. It is a position of envy of Chinese success in trade and technical superiority in manufacturing. rather than compete with them the USA and The USA are trying to freeze them out with bans and phoney scare stories.

China, with its building islands for military purposes, the taking of land from India, their increased military espionage and building of armaments, declares that they really don't want friendship.... they want dominion.

 

[Yazata]

I wouldn't call it "blackmail". The United States just told the United Kingdom that the US was going to be rethinking its intelligence sharing arrangements with the UK if we felt that there was danger that by sharing sensitive defense information with the UK, we would also be inadvertently sharing it with our potential superpower adversary communist China as well. Completely reasonable in my opinion.

The United States is under no obligation to treat the UK as one of America's most trusted allies. The US-UK relationship exists because both sides see it as advantageous to their own interests. If the trust upon which the whole thing is built starts to evaporate and the relationship starts to look less like an advantage and more like a potential threat, then it needs to be revisited.

I'm getting the impression that the UK has listened to reason on this issue. They needed to make a choice and seemingly they made what I believe is the right one. The choice they made is probably better for the UK as well as for the US. I applaud them.

 

[Nakosis]

The UK government has made the dangerous choice to submit to American black mail over continuing the partnership with Huawei in the supply and installation of the 5G network. According to engineers it is largely a dumb pipe network that is no danger to anyone.

We have fallen to the paranoia of Trump with far reaching consequences to our trade investment and political relationships with China and the far East.
It will be exceedingly damaging to the many large companies now owned or jointly owned in the UK by China. It will have far reaching affects on employment, trade and finances.

China is far more important to our future than is the USA. Yet we have given America power over our decision making and future prosperity...

With the Huawei system The 5G network in the UK is built on the top of the 3 and 4G one built by Huawei with very little additional equipment required. It has not been decided if this 3 And 4G backbone has to be removed as well. If it is, it will set the program back even further. And most likely seriously reduce even the existing 4g coverage for a number of years. All this on the tenuous idea that China might have secret access.

I would suggest that any country could gain any access to the network of any country they might wish to, without having any special privileges at all. It will always be down to ourselves as to how secure the network remains. It does no rely on who supplied some of the hardware.

I can not see China remaining neutral on this turn of events. It will turn out to be a very costly mistake for us. And remove any remaining financial industrial and trade influence that we may have had in the far Eastern world. This will cause lasting damage to our future prospects outside the EU.

Our world trade prospects under this government are worsening by the day.

Well, you'all elected them folks. I imagine whatever they be doing, it's what a majority of the folks want done.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That has become a position increasingly promoted by Trump and the right of the republican party, and is gaining some traction in the west including the UK. China would prefer to be friends with the west. However if the west persists in regarding them as enemies, the danger is clear for all to see. It is a position of envy of Chinese success in trade and technical superiority in manufacturing. rather than compete with them the USA and The USA are trying to freeze them out with bans and phoney scare stories.

The Chinese are notorious for stealing patented technology and making their own version for way cheaper. They exploit their people to create sweat shops that enable us to have a facade of a plush and comfortable life. Caving to Trump's delusions and famtasies is never good, but business with China likely isn't really benefiting your citizens much either.

 

[ChristineM]

Now i wonder what will happen to the trade deal with China that was proposed as being a saviour of brexit?

 

[columbus]

Yes indeed.... but it is a right wing section of the Tory party that wants to get into bed with the USA and were leaders in the Brexit battle...
The same people who want to privatise the NHS, and import American, chlorine washed chicken , antibiotic fed beef and GM crops.
they want the UK to be a puppet of the USA.
You should not forget William Hague is a product of the secretive right wing McKinsey & Company who promotes "leaders" in positions of power where ever they can influence the most people. and has been a leader of this group in the Tory party since he was first elected.
he is passionately pro US.

But UK did hold a vote and this is what won.
Right?
Tom

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Well, you'all elected them folks. I imagine whatever they be doing, it's what a majority of the folks want done.

The subject never came up in the Election. Nor was China seen as an enemy by anyone.
Any more than it was in the USA.
America was investing heavily in China.
Those investment are now in jeopardy thank to Trump?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Now i wonder what will happen to the trade deal with China that was proposed as being a saviour of brexit?

Exactly. China was flavour of the week.

 

[Nakosis]

The subject never came up in the Election. Nor was China seen as an enemy by anyone.
Any more than it was in the USA.

These are the folks you elected to represent your interests in all circumstances. The obvious implication is that they will cater to the best interests of the people is any upcoming future situations. And, if you don't like their governance I assume you have similar means to redress your government like we do in the us.

Of course, I suppose it is easier to blame the US.

 

[Tambourine]

The Chinese are notorious for stealing patented technology and making their own version for way cheaper. They exploit their people to create sweat shops that enable us to have a facade of a plush and comfortable life.

US electronics companies have been literally paying Chinese factories to do this since the invention of the first iPhone. As far as I can tell, the thing that's changed is that there now exist Chinese electronics companies who are in direct competition with their US counterparts.

 

[columbus]

The subject never came up in the Election.

You mean to tell me that the Brits made poorly informed decision?

Well, at least you've got an extra £315,000,000/week for your health care system. You can't have everything.
Tom

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

But UK did hold a vote and this is what won.
Right?
Tom

As I said the subject did not come up, we were supposed to be working ever more closely with China. They were encouraged to invest in and take over British companies.
And British companies were encouraged to partner with theirs.

I wouldn't call it "blackmail". The United States just told the United Kingdom that the US was going to be rethinking its intelligence sharing arrangements with the UK if we felt that there was danger that by sharing sensitive defense information with the UK, we would also be inadvertently sharing it with our potential superpower adversary communist China as well. Completely reasonable in my opinion.



The United States is under no obligation to treat the UK as one of America's most trusted allies. The US-UK relationship exists because both sides see it as advantageous to their own interests. If the trust upon which the whole thing is built starts to evaporate and the relationship starts to look less like an advantage and more like a potential threat, then it needs to be revisited.

I'm getting the impression that the UK has listened to reason on this issue. They needed to make a choice and seemingly they made what I believe is the right one. The choice they made is probably better for the UK as well as for the US. I applaud them.

I agree that the UK USA relationship needs to be reassessed.
Especially in view of the direction Trump has taken America.
When Trump came to office Both America and Trump saw China as a friend and Trading partner. It is only recently that he has turned about and attacked them.
The security issue is trumped up, it is no more true than flying elephants.

China like Japan were thought of as copyists making cheap knock offs. This has not been true for ages. Mostly what they make is at least as good as their competitors, and usually better.

As far as the UK USA relationship goes, is should be put in cold store until Trump is just a bad memory. In the meantime The UK should mend it's bridges with China.
America can catch up if it is able.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

You mean to tell me that the Brits made poorly informed decision?

Well, at least you've got an extra £315,000,000/week for your health care system. You can't have everything.
Tom

Both the Brexit decision and this one will prove to be a disaster. And there never was the money to give to the health service it was a lie. They have already back tracked on that.
Johnson is already behind Kier Starker in the leadership polls.