Does God welcome everyone into heaven?

[Trailblazer]

I personally believe that hell and heaven are states of mind and spirit that we create ourselves by our actions and deeds and if our deeds and actions are good and according to what God has decreed then we shall attain a heavenly state but if our actions and deeds are evil and bad then we will attend a hellish state. I believe that this state of heaven and hell is our doing alone. God loves and welcomes all but it is us who create our own state of heaven and health within ourselves and on Earth.

I agree that we create our own heaven and hell by our thoughts and actions, but I also believe that free will is constrained so it is not totally within our control. I believe God knows that so God takes that into consideration when He judges us.

 

[Trailblazer]

Very moral lives. You said yourself that it was a mass murderer you're using as an example.

It's not about belief.

I agree.

 

[Trailblazer]

In (Rev. 6:16) at the Second Coming of Christ, the unbelieving know it is Christ and instead of turning to him for salvation, they hide from Him wanting nothing to do with Him.

I believe that is what has happened to most people.

 

[Trailblazer]

Bible tells eternal life is for righteous and other die. I believe it is so because unrighteous people would turn eternal life into eternal suffering for all, if they would live forever.

I believe that the righteous go to heaven. I believe that the unrighteous live forever in the spiritual world but the evil souls are separated from from the righteous so they can do them no harm anymore.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Spirit and soul are NOT the same thing. They are two different words with two different meanings. There is no such thing as "spiritual death" and the Bible NEVER says any such nonsense.
Death means to be dead and living means to be alive.

Spirit/soul both are separated from the body when the body dies. If you think the spirit and soul are different than the body, then why do you reject what I have said. When the body dies, where do you thing the Spirit/soul goes?

(Eph. 2:5) (Col 2:13) (Matt. 8;22) (Luke 15:24)

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

I believe that is what has happened to most people.

Well, your statement is incomplete. I gave you Scripture and explanation concerning your complaint to me that a 'loving God would not do that'. You ignore the fact that the deeper problem is not about 'evidence for God' which is what atheist's will say.

So, why didn't Cain follow God when he knew he existed?

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Trailblazer]

There is no such thing as "spiritual death" and the Bible NEVER says any such nonsense.
Death means to be dead and living means to be alive.

Jesus never said anything about the physical body living forever.
I believe that all the following verses refer to eternal life of the soul, not eternal life of the physical body.

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Jesus makes it very clear that the physical body is not important, only spiritual life is important.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

 

[osgart]

If God were concerned with us knowing and believing, God would send us irrefutable messages of extreme obviousness.

God would be rather more concerned with our conduct and chosen nature of virtues or vices. God would have no need of our knowledge and belief. Nor make requirement of it.

We are the ones who need knowledge and belief. However that same knowledge and belief might hinder rather than help the cause.

To know God is real might entail reaching the ability to know that by deserving to know it on God's terms.

To approach the Supreme we must be of a deserving condition I would think.

I get inklings, and inspirations about God. But I truly don't know God's existence at this time. I have my experiences, and my proofs that I wonder at.
Surely the pursuit of God isn't in vain, if by grace and by deserve we can know the attributes of God. Even if God were fictitious, pursuing a standard better than our own is not in vain.

The best things in life are surely those worthy of a God. All that is worth living comes by way of The Virtues. An honest relationship, a genuine love and so forth.

So it's gain either way; living forever, or complete temporality, to pursue God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, your statement is incomplete.

You said:
In (Rev. 6:16) at the Second Coming of Christ, the unbelieving know it is Christ and instead of turning to him for salvation, they hide from Him wanting nothing to do with Him.
I said:
I believe that is what has happened to most people.

To complete my statement, what I believe has happened is that at the Second Coming of Christ, the unbelieving, instead of turning to him for salvation, hide from Him wanting nothing to do with Him.

I gave you Scripture and explanation concerning your complaint to me that a 'loving God would not do that'. You ignore the fact that the deeper problem is not about 'evidence for God' which is what atheist's will say.

So, why didn't Cain follow God when he knew he existed?

Granted, some people who know God exists still do not follow God, but that does not mean that atheists fail to follow God even though they know God exists.

 

[Trailblazer]

If God were concerned with us knowing and believing, God would send us irrefutable messages of extreme obviousness.

I believe that God is concerned with us knowing and believing, and that is why God sends Messengers...
The only reason God is concerned is because it is beneficial for humans to believe in God.

God does not need our belief, and that us why God does not provide irrefutable proof of His existence.
Since God does not need our belief, God leaves it up to us whether to accept His Messengers and believe, or whether to reject His Messengers and disbelieve.

 

[Trailblazer]

Spirit/soul both are separated from the body when the body dies. If you think the spirit and soul are different than the body, then why do you reject what I have said. When the body dies, where do you thing the Spirit/soul goes?

I believe that the human spirit is the same thing as the human soul.
The following quote explains what I believe happens to the spirit/soul when the physical body dies.
I believe that when the spirit/soul separates from the body it goes into another realm of existence, what I refer to as the spiritual world.

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

 

[Trailblazer]

There is no such thing as "spiritual death" and the Bible NEVER says any such nonsense.

29 Bible Verses about Spiritual Death

 

[osgart]

I believe that the human spirit is the same thing as the human soul.
The following quote explains what I believe happens to the spirit/soul when the physical body dies.
I believe that when the spirit/soul separates from the body it goes into another realm of existence, what I refer to as the spiritual world.

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

Will our memories go with us? What about people who experience permanent loss of memories?

 

[Trailblazer]

Will our memories go with us? What about people who experience permanent loss of memories?

I believe that all of who we were at the moment of death will go with us to the spiritual world,.
According to my beliefs, those who had diseases such as Alzheimer's will have all their lost memories restored.
The reason for that is because it is only the brain that causes loss of memory, the soul remains unaffected; so when we no longer have a brain, the soul will be freed from any the maladies caused by the brain. That would include any mental illness one might have had in this world,.

“Know thou that the soul of man is exalted above, and is independent of all infirmities of body or mind. That a sick person showeth signs of weakness is due to the hindrances that interpose themselves between his soul and his body, for the soul itself remaineth unaffected by any bodily ailments. Consider the light of the lamp. Though an external object may interfere with its radiance, the light itself continueth to shine with undiminished power. In like manner, every malady afflicting the body of man is an impediment that preventeth the soul from manifesting its inherent might and power. When it leaveth the body, however, it will evince such ascendancy, and reveal such influence as no force on earth can equal. Every pure, every refined and sanctified soul will be endowed with tremendous power, and shall rejoice with exceeding gladness.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 153-154

 

[osgart]

I believe that all of who we were at the moment of death will go with us to the spiritual world,.
According to my beliefs, those who had diseases such as Alzheimer's will have all their lost memories restored.
The reason for that is because it is only the brain that causes loss of memory, the soul remains unaffected; so when we no longer have a brain, the soul will be freed from any the maladies caused by the brain. That would include any mental illness one might have had in this world,.

“Know thou that the soul of man is exalted above, and is independent of all infirmities of body or mind. That a sick person showeth signs of weakness is due to the hindrances that interpose themselves between his soul and his body, for the soul itself remaineth unaffected by any bodily ailments. Consider the light of the lamp. Though an external object may interfere with its radiance, the light itself continueth to shine with undiminished power. In like manner, every malady afflicting the body of man is an impediment that preventeth the soul from manifesting its inherent might and power. When it leaveth the body, however, it will evince such ascendancy, and reveal such influence as no force on earth can equal. Every pure, every refined and sanctified soul will be endowed with tremendous power, and shall rejoice with exceeding gladness.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 153-154

I had no idea that Gleanings had a particular passage about that.

I have heard of cases where people lived entirely new lives after getting their entire old life memories permanently deprived. So they built new memories and a whole new life.

It seems like a strong case for materialism. But I can see it other ways too.

I had an accident being in the wrong work zone at the wrong time years ago and since then I have had experienced brain impediments you might say.

 

[MJFlores]

your evidently calling Jesus a liar . if any one would know if any one had preceded him self to heaven ,he would know it .

That is why I posted the NIV translation showing he said it as translated by the NIV.
We have bestowed by God an organ called the brain, for us to use reasoning and common sense
which "everybody" doesn't use often that is why "everybody" could not grasp the truth.

When in doubt, when things are not clear in one translation - it is better to check another work
Then again refer to our brains, process it and evaluate if it makes sense or not

John 3:12-14 Living Bible (TLB)
But if you don’t even believe me when I tell you about such things as these that happen here among men, how can you possibly believe if I tell you what is going on in heaven? For only I, the Messiah, have come to earth and will return to heaven again. And as Moses in the wilderness lifted up the bronze image of a serpent on a pole, even so I must be lifted up upon a pole,

Now doesn't it make sense?
Instead of wondering if Jesus said it or accusing others on the notion that Jesus is a liar, it would be better to get hold of another translation than accept a faulty translation.
Not all translations are faithfully rendered
For example:

DRA
And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven.

What the...
Jesus Christ is speaking to Nicodemus yet the translation says Jesus the Son of man is in heaven?
Isn't that weird or what?

A number of years after his ascension in the windstorm Elijah is still alive and active as a prophet, this time to the king of Judah. Because of the wicked course taken by King Jehoram of Judah, Elijah writes him a letter expressing Jehovah’s condemnation, which is fulfilled shortly thereafter

Your assumption.
Elijah was taken up to heaven and Elisha his protegee continued on and soon to be God's prophet.

2 Kings 2:12-14 New International Version (NIV)

Elisha saw this and cried out, “My father! My father! The chariots and horsemen of Israel!” And Elisha saw him no more. Then he took hold of his garment and tore it in two.

Elisha then picked up Elijah’s cloak that had fallen from him and went back and stood on the bank of the Jordan. He took the cloak that had fallen from Elijah and struck the water with it. “Where now is the Lord, the God of Elijah?” he asked. When he struck the water, it divided to the right and to the left, and he crossed over.

 

[Trailblazer]

I had no idea that Gleanings had a particular passage about that.

I have heard of cases where people lived entirely new lives after getting their entire old life memories permanently deprived. So they built new memories and a whole new life.

It seems like a strong case for materialism. But I can see it other ways too.

I had an accident being in the wrong work zone at the wrong time years ago and since then I have had experienced brain impediments you might say.

If you click on the link to Gleanings, you can read the whole passage.

I guess if people lived an entirely new life after they lost their memory, they would be like two people when they died because they would have two sets of memories.

I feel very confident that any brain impediments you have will not go with you to the spiritual world.

 

[cataway]

That is why I posted the NIV translation showing he said it as translated by the NIV.
We have bestowed by God an organ called the brain, for us to use reasoning and common sense
which "everybody" doesn't use often that is why "everybody" could not grasp the truth.

When in doubt, when things are not clear in one translation - it is better to check another work
Then again refer to our brains, process it and evaluate if it makes sense or not

John 3:12-14 Living Bible (TLB)
But if you don’t even believe me when I tell you about such things as these that happen here among men, how can you possibly believe if I tell you what is going on in heaven? For only I, the Messiah, have come to earth and will return to heaven again. And as Moses in the wilderness lifted up the bronze image of a serpent on a pole, even so I must be lifted up upon a pole,

Now doesn't it make sense?
Instead of wondering if Jesus said it or accusing others on the notion that Jesus is a liar, it would be better to get hold of another translation than accept a faulty translation.
Not all translations are faithfully rendered
For example:

DRA
And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven.

What the...
Jesus Christ is speaking to Nicodemus yet the translation says Jesus the Son of man is in heaven?
Isn't that weird or what?



Your assumption.
Elijah was taken up to heaven and Elisha his protegee continued on and soon to be God's prophet.

2 Kings 2:12-14 New International Version (NIV)

Elisha saw this and cried out, “My father! My father! The chariots and horsemen of Israel!” And Elisha saw him no more. Then he took hold of his garment and tore it in two.

Elisha then picked up Elijah’s cloak that had fallen from him and went back and stood on the bank of the Jordan. He took the cloak that had fallen from Elijah and struck the water with it. “Where now is the Lord, the God of Elijah?” he asked. When he struck the water, it divided to the right and to the left, and he crossed over.

i only have to tell you . i don't have to make you believe . BTW what you are doing is making scripture contradict

 

[MJFlores]

I do not believe in the concept of 'saved' in a Christian sense because I do not believe in original sin, so I believe what we need to be saved from is our own lower material nature; you can call it our sinful nature or our selfish nature.

The dogma of original sin - was invented by the Roman Catholic Church and adapted by the various Protestant churches - it is a money making dogma to generate baptism fees. It is contrary to bible truths and the term "original sin" is not found in the Bible.

This is what the Bible says:

Ezekiel 18:19-20 New International Version (NIV)
“Yet you ask, ‘Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?’ Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

I believe that Jesus was the mediator between God and mankind during His religious dispensation, but I do not believe that Jesus was the "one mediator" between God and mankind for all of eternity.

You should rethink your position
Mankind needs a mediator because mankind is in conflict with God
With the various religions in the world, do you think the true God is happy with that?
Mankind worshiping Him in different ways?

Are these kinds of worship acceptable to God?
Let the Bible answer this question:

John 4:23 New International Version (NIV)
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

According to the bible, there are true worshipers
needless to say there are false worshipers
Would false worshipers are bound to heaven???
What do you think?

The salient problem is that many people "believe" that they "know" the truth that God teaches, but they do nor=t agree what that truth is. Why are you more qualified to interpret the Bible and what it means than other Christians?

The truth is laid out in the Bible
All we have to do is to search for it, read it and accept it.
Private interpretation of the Bible is not needed and it is a mistake to do that
Researching different religions and asking questions would be helpful
It is also handy to use common sense and logic to determine the truth from man made lies
The basis would be the Bible - if it is not there, then it is likely to be false.

Observing how they conduct worship services - is that honorable and acceptable to God
Or is it is just a chaotic money making machine just to con out money and more money?

But I believe that God loves everyone nevertheless, because God is Love.

God is Love
This Love is directed to those who love God.
God does not love the antichrists
God does not love the ungodly and so forth
God does not love Sodom and Gomorrah otherwise he wouldn't sent fire on them
God does not love lovers of the world

James 4:4 New International Version (NIV)
You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

I agree, everyone should look for the truth and try to walk in it, but one person's truth is another person's lie...
How can this be resolved?

Seek the truth
Discern the truth
Accept the truth
Handle the truth

1 Timothy 2:3-6 Common English Bible (CEB)
This is right and it pleases God our savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. There is one God and one mediator between God and humanity, the human Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a payment to set all people free. This was a testimony that was given at the right time.

 

[MJFlores]

i only have to tell you . i don't have to make you believe . BTW what you are doing is making scripture contradict

I have shown you the Bible references where God took Enoch and Elijah away
I even showed you picture representations to make those scriptural facts more illustrative
I do not see a contradiction on what Jesus said as to what the OT scriptures say about Enoch and Elijah
You see a contradiction and you are saying its a contradiction
What I see is the use of a more clearer translation - hence the Living Bible
You alleged that Elijah was taken away but came back or he was not taken away - that is your problem
You are silent about Enoch
Now I say there are 3 people to date - who were taken to heaven and these are:

1. Enoch
2. Elijah
3. The Lord Jesus Christ

I don't make this simple assertions based on my own personal opinions but these things are written on the Bible flatly. Now if your ministers and your church missed this, then they missed it. But the church which I belong didn't.

So there you go