What are demons and Satan?

[Unveiled Artist]

Satan is a fallen angel.

The Bible doesn't express where demons came from or what their purpose was before the fall of Satan, however, they are spirits that have different ranks of authority that influence people and attempt to possess people.

Are they forces?

Emotions?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

He was once a high ranking angel, an archangel.

So called spirit beings simply are live beings whose body is not composed of flesh, their composition and what sustains life in these beings is unknown to us.

How do you know they exist to describe it and thus know it influences christians if it is unknown?

I'm not sure what a spirit, angel, and archangel is, though.

 

[shmogie]

How do you know they exist to describe it and thus know it influences christians if it is unknown?

I'm not sure what a spirit, angel, and archangel is, though.

I explained that they are created beings different from us. We know they exist because the Bible says they do.

Science is thinking about multi dimensional existences, in the same space.

In a book called "Flat World" written before ww2. the author writes about a 3 dimensional world, time, forward-backward, left - right, that a person from our four dimensional world ( the extra dimension is height ) entering the three dimensional world. He can see everything that the inhabitants do, but they can see nothing of him, except for a line caused by his shoes.

I envision angels sort of the same way, we simply are unable to see them. Consider them as beings from another dimension if that helps you understand.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I explained that they are created beings different from us. We know they exist because the Bible says they do.

Science is thinking about multi dimensional existences, in the same space.

In a book called "Flat World" written before ww2. the author writes about a 3 dimensional world, time, forward-backward, left - right, that a person from our four dimensional world ( the extra dimension is height ) entering the three dimensional world. He can see everything that the inhabitants do, but they can see nothing of him, except for a line caused by his shoes.

I envision angels sort of the same way, we simply are unable to see them. Consider them as beings from another dimension if that helps you understand.

I'm sorry it doesn't. Like god as being, deity, so have you it is totally out of my concept of reality and understanding of how things work. I'm not materialistic by no means and at the same time some religious concepts I get and others I don't. One reason why I'm on RF to really understand this. Unfortunately, only christians tend to want to explain it. I tried asking Muslims but didn't get much and other religions I can't get pass the terminology and foreign language.

I know I sometimes watch science fiction and some fantasy movies here and there that talk about dimensions. I don't watch/read many of it because it's too complicated to really get what people are "fighting in." Matrix is another one. A few others as well.

How do you know they exist? (Not a typical atheist question. How do you know? Is it a feeling? A sign? A unusual negative experience? I know some say god touched them on the shoulder; they feel god's presence [not sure of that either] is it similar?)

I'm not too familiar with science. I do think, because of christian influence, some types of science say neurotheology are looking into the science of religion and it's characteristics.

Neurotheology: The relationship between brain and religion
Neurotheology: The relationship between brain and religion

“Neurotheology” refers to the multidisciplinary field of scholarship that seeks to understand the relationship between the human brain and religion....

Is the Flat World based on a true story? I'll have to look at that.

Beings from another dimension??

 

[Kenny]

Are they forces?

Emotions?

forces... entities.

 

[Dawnofhope]

What is a demon and Satan in Christianity and even (I'm serious) other abrahamic beliefs?

Is it a ghost?
Symbolism?
Deity (what is that?)
A force?
Emotion?

I'm familiar what it does
I'm familiar how it acts
I'm familiar with it's suppose.

What. Is it?

In the Baha’i Faith, Satan is seen as being a symbol of the lower self but doesn’t exist as a physical entity as portrayed by some Christians.

Satan (and demons) are presented very differently in the New Testament compared to the Tanakh. Those differences may be due to influences of cultures such as the Persians who had a very dualistic view of the universe. Zoroastrianism (from the Persians) as I understand it emphasised opposing forces such as God/Satan, Good/evil and angels/demons.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

In the Baha’i Faith, Satan is seen as being a symbol of the lower self but doesn’t exist as a physical entity as portrayed by some Christians.

Satan (and demons) are presented very differently in the New Testament compared to the Tanakh. Those differences may be due to influences of cultures such as the Persians who had a very dualistic view of the universe. Zoroastrianism (from the Persians) as I understand it emphasised opposing forces such as God/Satan, Good/evil and angels/demons.

That makes more sense. Do you have an concept of what some christians mean by physical entity?

I can see symbolism. When some christians speak of "satan leading them away from god" I can see it as their guilt or sin, I guess, is putting a hold on them ad struggling to get back to god. Personification of emotions or making strong negative feelings a "person" in order to communicate. I'm not sure.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

forces... entities.

but what does that mean?

When I think forces, I think Star Wars. Entities, I think Exorcist and Casper.

I wasn't raised around the language. Could you define it?

 

[Dawnofhope]

That makes more sense. Do you have an concept of what some christians mean by physical entity?

I can see symbolism. When some christians speak of "satan leading them away from god" I can see it as their guilt or sin, I guess, is putting a hold on them ad struggling to get back to god. Personification of emotions or making strong negative feelings a "person" in order to communicate. I'm not sure.

As you will appreciate Satan is anthropomorphised in Western culture so we have various depictions of Satan and demons in the arts. They would represent a hierarchy within a kingdom of darkness, a malevolent force that pervades the universe and opposes God and His Angels. These days its more helpful to consider dark forces within ourselves and our culture that cause chaos, confusion and destruction. However those forces are part of who we are and this knowledge gives us power to channel positive force and lesson the impact of these powerful negative forces. So we could talk of Godly and angelic forces as opposed to Satanic and demonic forces, good and evil. For Baha’is God exists and is real whereas Satan doesn’t. Some Christians may even see God as a symbol only so in that sense can be quite atheistic.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

What is a demon and Satan in Christianity and even (I'm serious) other abrahamic beliefs?

Is it a ghost?
Symbolism?
Deity (what is that?)
A force?
Emotion?

I'm familiar what it does
I'm familiar how it acts
I'm familiar with it's suppose.

What. Is it?

Let's start with demons. A "demon" (distinct from devil which is always evil) traditionally means "spirit." And this effectively is what a demon is. They are spiritual beings. Traditionally, there were good and evil demons, but gradually it came to mean an evil demon. Like ghosts, demons can possess people. Or they can manifest as a sort of negative energy. When you have psychological disorders, this can be said to be your demons.

Now, what is Satan? Satan literally means "accuser".
Satan - Wikipedia
That, not temptation, is his real role. Temptation is mainly just if you need encouragement to feel worthless.

Listen, sin is not evil. Sin is the accusation of evil. It is simply missing the mark, but Satan accuses us of being horrible people. The lower our self worth the more we tell ourselves that nobody (especially not those bigoted churchgoers) will love or accept our sins. Think about chocolate addicts and how they think one bite of chocolate will taint them for life.

But this is not true.

Now, there are three ways to approach sin.The first is to let it shame and defeat us. The second is denial. The third is to put a lie to the accusation of sin, by understanding the true nature of what sin is.

We must defeat Sin.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

As you will appreciate Satan is anthropomorphised in Western culture so we have various depictions of Satan and demons in the arts. They would represent a hierarchy within a kingdom of darkness, a malevolent force that pervades the universe and opposes God and His Angels. These days its more helpful to consider dark forces within ourselves and our culture that cause chaos, confusion and destruction. However those forces are part of who we are and this knowledge gives us power to channel positive force and lesson the impact of these powerful negative forces. So we could talk of Godly and angelic forces as opposed to Satanic and demonic forces, good and evil. For Baha’is God exists and is real whereas Satan doesn’t. Some Christians may even see God as a symbol only so in that sense can be quite atheistic.

Thank you. I talked with a Muslim once and she said simply, Muslims know and christians believe. Is that true with Bahai?

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Thank you. I talked with a Muslim once and she said simply, Muslims know and christians believe.

Wow, that's not arrogant or anything.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Thank you. I talked with a Muslim once and she said simply, Muslims know and christians believe. Is that true with Bahai?

I believe there’s really enlightened and wonderful Christians and Muslims around, but also many with prejudices too. Baha’is are no better. We’re all just ordinary people doing what we can to make our way in the world.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Wow, that's not arrogant or anything.

Basically

 

[74x12]

What is a demon and Satan in Christianity and even (I'm serious) other abrahamic beliefs?

Is it a ghost?
Symbolism?
Deity (what is that?)
A force?
Emotion?

I'm familiar what it does
I'm familiar how it acts
I'm familiar with it's suppose.

What. Is it?

Two different main categories:

1. Fallen angels. These were angelic beings from heaven that sinned and so became darkened. They're of different types and classes of beings within their ranks just like the good angels. Only difference is they sinned and are now evil. So they're powerful heavenly beings that are very strong and not to be taken lightly.
2. Demons. These are disembodied spirits that are normally actually the offspring of fallen angels who interbred with humans but they probably also interbred with other types of animals as well. Meaning these spirits could also be hybrid angelic and animal. So basically there are many different types of these creatures. What they have in common is that their bodies died and so the spirit is now without a body and they're evil. They vary in strength and power. They're not to be entertained or dealt with if possible avoid.
3. Some may still have their bodies. Meaning they aren't disembodied ghosts. They can be giants or other creatures. Not all seem to be giants like in Genesis 6 (although some apparently are). Fairies, elves etc. If you read the really original folk lore on a lot of these creatures; they aren't so nice. In any case a lot of this is up to speculation. Avoid them all.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I believe there’s really enlightened and wonderful Christians and Muslims around, but also many with prejudices too. Baha’is are no better. We’re all just ordinary people doing what we can to make our way in the world.

True. I guess to rephrase, though. Does bahai foundation of belief based on what one knows (for example, I 'know' my aunt existed eve though she passed away. I have her things (aka bible), I have her memories (aka experiences from god), and she is always in my heart (like some theist to god).

Then those who believe have a different point of view. Instead of knowledge that can be and "material" experiences, they believe-so there doesn't necessarily need to be pass experiences to believe it true. Love is an example of this. Many people haven't experienced love before but they do experience it from god. There is no external connection (they say it's not of man) but an internal. So, this is based on belief.

Does bahai foundation based on knowledge or belief?

 

[Dawnofhope]

True. I guess to rephrase, though. Does bahai foundation of belief based on what one knows (for example, I 'know' my aunt existed eve though she passed away. I have her things (aka bible), I have her memories (aka experiences from god), and she is always in my heart (like some theist to god).

Then those who believe have a different point of view. Instead of knowledge that can be and "material" experiences, they believe-so there doesn't necessarily need to be pass experiences to believe it true. Love is an example of this. Many people haven't experienced love before but they do experience it from god. There is no external connection (they say it's not of man) but an internal. So, this is based on belief.

Does bahai foundation based on knowledge or belief?

I’ve never heard a Muslim make such a comment before but they may be referring to the uncertainties around the Gospels compared to the certainty around the Quran. So Muslims can be certain the Quran records the words Muhammad actually spoke whereas Christians need faith to believe the Gospels record the actual words of Jesus. The Baha’i scriptures have the same level of reliability of transmission as the Quran. However, Christians, Muslims and Baha’is still need faith the words written are Revelation from God.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I’ve never heard a Muslim make such a comment before but they may be referring to the uncertainties around the Gospels compared to the certainty around the Quran. So Muslims can be certain the Quran records the words Muhammad actually spoke whereas Christians need faith to believe the Gospels record the actual words of Jesus. The Baha’i scriptures have the same level of reliability of transmission as the Quran. However, Christians, Muslims and Baha’is still need faith the words written are Revelation from God.

Bahai is more about faith and belief rather than knowledge?

Either or is fine. I'm just curious.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Bahai is more about faith and belief rather than knowledge?

Either or is fine. I'm just curious.

Both are important to Baha'is. One of our fundamental pinciples is the harmony of science and religion.

Science and Religion | What Bahá’ís Believe

Religion and Science are inter-twined with each other and cannot be separated. These are the two wings with which humanity must fly. One wing is not enough. Every religion which does not concern itself with science is mere tradition…. Therefore science, education and civilization are most important necessities for the full religious life. – Abdu’l-Baha in London, p. 28-29.

God has endowed man with intelligence and reason whereby he is required to determine the verity of questions and propositions. If religious beliefs and opinions are found contrary to the standards of science they are mere superstitions and imaginations; for the antithesis of knowledge is ignorance, and the child of ignorance is superstition. Unquestionably there must be agreement between true religion and science. If a question be found contrary to reason, faith and belief in it are impossible… – Abdu’l-Baha, Baha’i World Faith, p. 239.

Unity of Science & Religion

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Both are important to Baha'is. One of our fundamental pinciples is the harmony of science and religion.

Science and Religion | What Bahá’ís Believe

Religion and Science are inter-twined with each other and cannot be separated. These are the two wings with which humanity must fly. One wing is not enough. Every religion which does not concern itself with science is mere tradition…. Therefore science, education and civilization are most important necessities for the full religious life. – Abdu’l-Baha in London, p. 28-29.

God has endowed man with intelligence and reason whereby he is required to determine the verity of questions and propositions. If religious beliefs and opinions are found contrary to the standards of science they are mere superstitions and imaginations; for the antithesis of knowledge is ignorance, and the child of ignorance is superstition. Unquestionably there must be agreement between true religion and science. If a question be found contrary to reason, faith and belief in it are impossible… – Abdu’l-Baha, Baha’i World Faith, p. 239.

Unity of Science & Religion

Science aside, by knowledge I mean, for example, I know my aunt was alive. In this case, science wasn't a factor (not really a science person) but the experience and relationship with her as a physical person let me know she was alive.

On the other hand, I may put faith in my deceased family with whom I never met who may or may not would have even understood this generation if they were alive today. However, "unlike my aunt" (not both), I can only communicate with them by spirit, prayer, and general conversation.

Likewise with god.

I assume that faith and believe would be a cornerstone of one's belief in god given, like my deceased family, we can't "see or hear" him. Though, like the Muslim woman I spoke with, since she said she knew I assume that her perspective was different (not right or wrong or anything). I respected her for that, because many christians I know say they have faith, believe, experience but then life comes with knowledge (does not need to be scientific).

I haven't asked her about objective evidence with god, but it didn't seem like I needed to. I can't remember the rest of the conversation but it was a different perspective I'm not used to from christians I speak with.

Bahai, on the other hand, I'm not sure. I'm getting mixed signals.

Science aside. I'm not asking you to take sides and toss one out over another. It's kind of like asking you do you like blue or orange. I'm not saying toss the colors, just what's your preference.