Hey all.

[coconut theology]

Sure!

Ok, here is a Powerpoint, very simple, mostly picture with some headlines (it was originally for children).

Object Lessons – Coconut Theology (Powerpoint)

 

[coconut theology]

Yes, but i’ve lived life virtuously and in my opinion that is enough to earn salvation.

You believe mankind needs salvation? Would you be able to share a bit more about what you believe mankind needs salvation [to be saved] from?

Whilst time may be nearly up for individuals, the planet itself has billions of years left before its expiration date. At least that’s the view which seems to be supported by science (and science I am a great supporter of).

I also acknowledge and believe in real true science (the Bible speaks of a true and false science (knowledge)). I do not believe the earth is billions of years old, nor will this present earth ever be such, from my perspective and understanding of scripture, history and science. Maybe we can discuss this between us? I do not know if this welcome thread is that place for that (though I am not averse to talking with you, or any, here).

 

[coconut theology]

I probably would've gone with oranges, or something from shivat haminim, I guess.

shivat haminim: The seven kinds of the promised land. Aka: wheat, barley, grape, fig, pomegranates, olive (oil), and (honey, some say 'dates') (Deuteronomy 8:8)

Deu 8:8 A land of wheat, and barley, and vines, and fig trees, and pomegranates; a land of oil olive, and honey;​

What have you learned from oranges? Please share.

 

[coconut theology]

If my memory serves me well the stories in the Bible included wine drinking.

Your memory is correct. Yes, there are events (histories) in the Bible which included 'wine drinking', but those examples of alcohol (arabic word, to cover (the eyes)) were always the bad example, the wrong thing to do, sin, ect.

In scripture there are two 'kinds' of wine (there are many words used for wine in both Hebrew an koine Greek), the good (juice of the grape, or fruit juice of the vine) and the evil (the vine of sodom, alcohol).

We can look at this more if you would like, just for information sake. Most persons have a misunderstanding about how the Bible uses the word "wine". It simply means that which is of the 'vine', whether fermented or not.

In the UK the pub is a great place to socialise,a pint after work and talking with friends about whatever is a,imo,a great way to unwind.

Yes, I understand the need to socialize (which is why God made Eve for Adam, for God knew that Adam needed a social companion of his own kind), but that is separate from alcohol. Though some attempt to make the two things congruent. It's kind of like all the advertising for alcohol at football (American) games on TV. Alcohol has no real association with the sport at all, and yet many seek to make the two things congruent. They are separate. You can socialize even at a pub with water in hand, a 'soda', fruit beverage etc without alcohol. Alcohol actually inhibits socialization, since it affects the mind. It may help to blur things together, but that is not really socialization.

Good food and wine are part of a good meal,in a restaurant the idea is all the courses compliment each other,this is also true of the wine so the whole meal is in harmony.

Alcohol brings death my good chef. It is the antithesis to food, which is meant for life. Alcohol kills 'germs' (bio/life), and is used as an antiseptic on the outside. Imagine what it does to the inside of the delicate machinery. The very moment it hits the gut, liver, brain, bloodstream, kidneys, all begins to rot, decay, die. Just like smoking for the lungs, etc. Persons would also say that smoking cigars or cigarettes are also for socializing, and even advertise it this way, especially through 'sex' (male/female, and these days all else), the ultimate socializing.

There are those who socialize over 'spirit cooking'. There are those who socialize over hard core drugs, etc. There are those who socialize over snuff films, etc. Each of the things have no real connection to the socializing. It is just something that attaches itself to it, and are not needed for it. So also with alcohol.

Although I have to cook vegan meals it's rare but if you want some great recipes Google "bosh.tv,a couple of young guys sharing great vegan recipes.

Thanks for the tip!

To answer the question as to whether I could go without beer or wine the answers yes,I definitely wouldn't throw it on the ground though,hate waste.

Would you be willing to go 30 days starting today? Honor system, as I cannot check in on you. I would be curious at such an test and to see what you might say in 30 days. Up to you though. If you still want to go to pub ect that is not excluded, just the alcohol part.

 

[Harel13]

What have you learned from oranges? Please share

Two things: 1. It's a delicious fruit and makes a delicious juice. 2. The deep philosophical question: Is the fruit named after the color or the color after the fruit?

 

[coconut theology]

Two things: 1. It's a delicious fruit and makes a delicious juice. 2. The deep philosophical question: Is the fruit named after the color or the color after the fruit?

It is a delicious fruit, good in Vitamin C (Christ), and others (I also like Blood Oranges).

Well the word "orange" is an English word, but derived or originating:

Etymology:

"orange (n.)
late 14c., in reference to the fruit of the orange tree (late 13c. as a surname), from Old French orange, orenge (12c., Modern French orange), from Medieval Latin pomum de orenge, from Italian arancia, originally narancia (Venetian naranza), an alteration of Arabic naranj, from Persian narang, from Sanskrit naranga-s "orange tree," a word of uncertain origin.

Not used as a color word in English until 1510s (orange color), "a reddish-yellow color like that of a ripe orange." Colors similar to modern orange in Middle English might be called citrine or saffron. Loss of initial n- probably is due to confusion with the definite article (as in une narange, una narancia), but also perhaps was by influence of French or "gold." The name of the town of Orange in France (see Orangemen) perhaps was deformed by the name of the fruit. Orange juice is attested from 1723.

The tree's original range probably was northern India. The Persian orange, grown widely in southern Europe after its introduction in Italy 11c., was bitter; sweet oranges were brought to Europe 15c. from India by Portuguese traders and quickly displaced the bitter variety, but only Modern Greek still seems to distinguish the bitter (nerantzi) from the sweet (portokali "Portuguese") orange.

Portuguese, Spanish, Arab, and Dutch sailors planted citrus trees along trade routes to prevent scurvy. On his second voyage in 1493, Christopher Columbus brought the seeds of oranges, lemons and citrons to Haiti and the Caribbean. Introduced in Florida (along with lemons) in 1513 by Spanish explorer Juan Ponce de Leon. It was introduced to Hawaii in 1792." - orange | Origin and meaning of orange by Online Etymology Dictionary

 

[England my lionheart]

Your memory is correct. Yes, there are events (histories) in the Bible which included 'wine drinking', but those examples of alcohol (arabic word, to cover (the eyes)) were always the bad example, the wrong thing to do, sin, ect.

In scripture there are two 'kinds' of wine (there are many words used for wine in both Hebrew an koine Greek), the good (juice of the grape, or fruit juice of the vine) and the evil (the vine of sodom, alcohol).

We can look at this more if you would like, just for information sake. Most persons have a misunderstanding about how the Bible uses the word "wine". It simply means that which is of the 'vine', whether fermented or not.

Yes, I understand the need to socialize (which is why God made Eve for Adam, for God knew that Adam needed a social companion of his own kind), but that is separate from alcohol. Though some attempt to make the two things congruent. It's kind of like all the advertising for alcohol at football (American) games on TV. Alcohol has no real association with the sport at all, and yet many seek to make the two things congruent. They are separate. You can socialize even at a pub with water in hand, a 'soda', fruit beverage etc without alcohol. Alcohol actually inhibits socialization, since it affects the mind. It may help to blur things together, but that is not really socialization.

Alcohol brings death my good chef. It is the antithesis to food, which is meant for life. Alcohol kills 'germs' (bio/life), and is used as an antiseptic on the outside. Imagine what it does to the inside of the delicate machinery. The very moment it hits the gut, liver, brain, bloodstream, kidneys, all begins to rot, decay, die. Just like smoking for the lungs, etc. Persons would also say that smoking cigars or cigarettes are also for socializing, and even advertise it this way, especially through 'sex' (male/female, and these days all else), the ultimate socializing.

There are those who socialize over 'spirit cooking'. There are those who socialize over hard core drugs, etc. There are those who socialize over snuff films, etc. Each of the things have no real connection to the socializing. It is just something that attaches itself to it, and are not needed for it. So also with alcohol.

Thanks for the tip!

Would you be willing to go 30 days starting today? Honor system, as I cannot check in on you. I would be curious at such an test and to see what you might say in 30 days. Up to you though. If you still want to go to pub ect that is not excluded, just the alcohol part.

I basically disagree with most of this post,I have no need of ancient mythology in my life,sorry,way I see it your a long time dead,30 days of giving up anything I enjoy is way to long.

 

[coconut theology]

I basically disagree with most of this post,I have no need of ancient mythology in my life,sorry,way I see it your a long time dead,30 days of giving up anything I enjoy is way to long.

It was an offer in peace, and an interesting science and social experiment that we both could witness the results of, but as you do not desire to so, I will leave your present decision to you.

Some information for you, if you desire, since you disagree with me, I pray you do not disagree with the hard science, for in so doing, you will shorten your precious life by your choice in refusing it:

"... Alcohol is estimated to be associated with approximately 40,000 deaths per year in the UK and deaths from alcohol related causes are increasing at an alarming rate, having increased at least 8-fold since the 1970s [1]. ...

... It was first described in 1926 that there is an association between fatty changes within the liver due to alcohol and sudden (presumed) arrhythmic death [4,5]. ...

... Alcohol causes arrhythmias during life, including prolongation of the QT interval, which is associated with sudden cardiac death [2]. ..." - US National Library of Medicine; National Institutes of Health-Sudden Unexpected Death in Alcohol Misuse—An Unrecognized Public Health Issue?​

Only the unrepentant will remain longtime dead in the 2nd death to come, after facing judgment in their resurrection to come, but it doesn't have to be that way.

You say you "enjoy" the alcohol. That is merely a present consideration, not a long term one, in which is involved heart attack, liver cirrhosis, brain damage in which memory loss occurs of those whom you love, and past events that you want to remember.

You are trapped by it. I am free from it.

 

[England my lionheart]

It was an offer in peace, and an interesting science and social experiment that we both could witness the results of, but as you do not desire to so, I will leave your present decision to you.

Some information for you, if you desire, since you disagree with me, I pray you do not disagree with the hard science, for in so doing, you will shorten your precious life by your choice in refusing it:

"... Alcohol is estimated to be associated with approximately 40,000 deaths per year in the UK and deaths from alcohol related causes are increasing at an alarming rate, having increased at least 8-fold since the 1970s [1]. ...

... It was first described in 1926 that there is an association between fatty changes within the liver due to alcohol and sudden (presumed) arrhythmic death [4,5]. ...

... Alcohol causes arrhythmias during life, including prolongation of the QT interval, which is associated with sudden cardiac death [2]. ..." - US National Library of Medicine; National Institutes of Health-Sudden Unexpected Death in Alcohol Misuse—An Unrecognized Public Health Issue?​

Only the unrepentant will remain longtime dead in the 2nd death to come, after facing judgment in their resurrection to come, but it doesn't have to be that way.

You say you "enjoy" the alcohol. That is merely a present consideration, not a long term one, in which is involved heart attack, liver cirrhosis, brain damage in which memory loss occurs of those whom you love, and past events that you want to remember.

You are trapped by it. I am free from it.

I think everyone is aware of the health risks of drinking smoking and unhealthy eating,as I said before, moderation is the key.

Also again ,ancient mythology which I find interesting, especially Norse and Greek I have no time for it to affect the way I live or think,I don't think you need religion to be moral or human.

 

[dybmh]

I would be interested in your findings, or take away from it after a few read throughs.

I'm making some good progress on this... It's a fun project. I've read through the entire book in English, re-read the dream/vision sequences a few times. Now I'm reviewing the commentary from Jewish sources and looking at the Hebrew and Aramaic...

 

[coconut theology]

I think everyone is aware of the health risks of drinking smoking and unhealthy eating,as I said before, moderation is the key.

Indeed, slow death instead of a quick one. Got it. Some people do like their torture.

 

[coconut theology]

I'm making some good progress on this... It's a fun project. I've read through the entire book in English, re-read the dream/vision sequences a few times. Now I'm reviewing the commentary from Jewish sources and looking at the Hebrew and Aramaic...

Sounds good dybmh. I have been through that same material. Some helpful, some detrimental.

 

[coconut theology]

...Also again, ancient mythology which I find interesting, especially Norse and Greek I have no time for it to affect the way I live or think, I don't think you need religion to be moral or human.

All persons on earth are 'religious', and 'worship'. It's just a matter of what they spend their time, money, attention, etc on. For you, it includes the routine/habit of pub and alcohol and socialization there, and contemplation of the day and days gone by. There is music and even food, at a pub/bar, and there is even the one who serves, and even from time to time offers advice. Your 'church' has congregants, regulars and visitors. It has its own set of rules for entry, and participation, or expulsion will occur, and even has a time of closing, and you pay a 'fee' to enjoy, your offering if you will for the service received and time spent, and if time was well spent, you even give beyond the 'fee' with a special offering called a 'tip'. There are seats/places for regulars, and the attendant knows them by their name and are familiar with their history. There are even ushers, called bouncers, etc at certain places. Yes, yes, satan has his secular 'churches' disguised as many a thing ...

 

[England my lionheart]

Indeed, slow death instead of a quick one. Got it. Some people do like their torture.

There sure are slow deaths,people are living longer,nursing homes are bulging with it's inhabitants getting there food through a plastic tube,such a reward for living a temperate life huh.

 

[England my lionheart]

All persons on earth are 'religious', and 'worship'. It's just a matter of what they spend their time, money, attention, etc on. For you, it includes the routine/habit of pub and alcohol and socialization there, and contemplation of the day and days gone by. There is music and even food, at a pub/bar, and there is even the one who serves, and even from time to time offers advice. Your 'church' has congregants, regulars and visitors. It has its own set of rules for entry, and participation, or expulsion will occur, and even has a time of closing, and you pay a 'fee' to enjoy, your offering if you will for the service received and time spent, and if time was well spent, you even give beyond the 'fee' with a special offering called a 'tip'. There are seats/places for regulars, and the attendant knows them by their name and are familiar with their history. There are even ushers, called bouncers, etc at certain places. Yes, yes, satan has his secular 'churches' disguised as many a thing ...

I'm failing to see how "all persons on Earth are religious".

religious
/rɪˈlɪdʒəs/
Learn to pronounce
adjective

1. relating to or believing in a religion.
   "both men were deeply religious and moralistic"
   
   Similar:
   devout
   pious
   reverent
   believing
   godly
   God-fearing
   dutiful
   saintly
   holy
   prayerful
   churchgoing
   practising
   faithful
   devoted
   committed
   Opposite:
   atheistic
   

noun

1. a person bound by monastic vows.

There are of course religious people who visit the pub too but it's not part of their religious beliefs.

The pub or local bar is run by a landlord or landlady along with barstaff,preferably barmaids none of which hold judgement over you with threats of eternal damnation,there is no Satan in the pub,just people enjoying themselves.

 

[coconut theology]

I'm failing to see how "all persons on Earth are religious".

religious
/rɪˈlɪdʒəs/ ...

1. Opposite:
   atheistic ...

'Atheistic" is not the "opposite" of "religious". Even C. Hitchens would disagree with such definition, which is very narrow, and rather recent. Just breaking the word down into its component parts, "a" (negative, against, etc) and "theist", (God follower), "ic" (practice of).

"Religious", even in the definition you provided, says, "practising", "believing", "faithful" (meaning belief in that which is done/practised) and "devoted". Just as I said. One can be devoted to that which is not God, or a-thiest-ic things. One practises their lifestyle, believing in what they do apart from God.

"According to Cicero derived from relegere "go through again" ...", in other words the cycle of belief, leading to practice.

 

[coconut theology]

There sure are slow deaths,people are living longer,nursing homes are bulging with it's inhabitants getting there food through a plastic tube,such a reward for living a temperate life huh.

If persons would follow the health laws of God in scripture, there would not be such places, and if persons would follow the regulations laid out by God for family, persons would not abandon their elders to such places.

They were not temperate according to scripture. That is the point. They thought that they were being "moderate" in their sexual habits, their drinking habits, their eating habits, their thinking habits, their lifestyle habits, etc. They are reaping what they themselves have sown. However, you may want to consider the "blue zones", and one in particular, the Seventh-day Adventist.

 

[England my lionheart]

'Atheistic" is not the "opposite" of "religious". Even C. Hitchens would disagree with such definition, which is very narrow, and rather recent. Just breaking the word down into its component parts, "a" (negative, against, etc) and "theist", (God follower), "ic" (practice of).

"Religious", even in the definition you provided, says, "practising", "believing", "faithful" (meaning belief in that which is done/practised) and "devoted". Just as I said. One can be devoted to that which is not God, or a-thiest-ic things. One practises their lifestyle, believing in what they do apart from God.

"According to Cicero derived from relegere "go through again" ...", in other words the cycle of belief, leading to practice.

Whatever,it's still a million miles away from religious belief although you may encounter a prophet espousing how his football team will win the FA cup.

I still cannot equate a pub to a religion,people go to a church or mosque all for the same reason whereas people go to the pub for different reasons.

 

[coconut theology]

Whatever,it's still a million miles away from religious belief although you may encounter a prophet espousing how his football team will win the FA cup.

Let me show you another 'worship' service, whose 'profits' are the bookie:

 

[dybmh]

Sounds good dybmh. I have been through that same material. Some helpful, some detrimental.

Yeah, I hear you.

I like to approach it like a treasure hunt. That way it's still fun. I'll keep you posted...