• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Hey all.

coconut theology

coconuts for Jesus
I pretty sure I've heard hell mentioned by the Catholic church
The Great Whore of Revelation 17, see also the Beast from the Sea of Revelation 13, see also the Man of Sin and falling away (apostasy), in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, see the Vile Person of Daniel 11:21, see the "little horn" of Daniel 7 and also Daniel 8, see the "King of the North" in Daniel 11:40, see also the wolves (Rome) in Sheep's (Christian) clothing of Matthew 7:15, see also the false apostles of Revelation 2:2; see also the "overseers" ("elders/bishops" that would deceive, see also the "ministers" of hat "angel of light" in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15, and so many others, ect.

I used to be Roman Catholic and can speak from the official doctrine and cite as many of the highest sources as needful, in several languages, including their official Latin.

Thy took pagan doctrine and claimed it came from scripture. It did not, and in print they even admit as much, to be cited as necessary.

and Protestant too
See the apostasy of the Harlot daughters of the Mother (Mater Ecclesia, in Rome) system in Revelation 13, the Beast from the Earth, and also in Revelation 17. You can also see types of this, in the days of Elijah with Athaliah, and as well as in the Days of Herod, with Salome and John the Baptist.

There are true and false protestants, there are ignorant and knowledgable Protestants. There is a remnant (see Revelation 12 & 14).

,the quran
An amalgamation of Judaism, Christianity, Sabbeanism, Zorastrianism, etc. Like Jesuitism, and Ignatius de Loyola, whose vision came from devils in a cave, so too did Abu al Qasim's in the Hira cave. The connection of Islam to Catholicism is documentable. One such document is the Ashtaname. Other information involves Kadijah and Waraqua bin Naufal, and even a monk whose name we can consider later.

mentions eternal torture
Surely the Roman Catholic system does. It borrowed it from paganism, and admittedly so by their own source material. Islam is merely a dark project by the Roman Catholic orders, at an ecumenical movement, that was later used for purging purposes in the Levant and beyond.

and,I have no idea what sect of Christianity
No such thing. There is only the true, and the false system, as described by scripture.

you Belong to but it seems pretty standard for the proselytizing religions.
Yes, it is, and it has driven some to insanity, as it is of the devil himself, and foisted upon God's own character of true Justice. It is a false doctrine, used propagandistically against God, under the guise of Christianity, when it is no such thing.

Many have come to hate God through such a false representation of God.

What false representations portray does not give credence to their claims, nor does it discredit what is actually documentedly true.

What you think scripture teaches about hell and hellfire, is not what it actually teaches. In other words, you have been lied to, and you were deceived about what scripture does actually teach. The only way to not misrepresent what scripture teaches (as I assume you like facts, not error) is to go to the text itself and see what it says of itself. I do not mean go to a website or secondary or tertiary source, I mean go to the source material itself, the Bible (King James for English speakers).

One thing I know for sure about the Bible Quran and holy books
There is no where in any qur'an which states that it is a 'holy' book. The words al qur'an al kareem, mean 'abundant recitations' (in other words, what Jesus said as being, "vain repetitions" and "much speaking" of the heathen)

of religions is that they were written by human beings
Yes. Books are written (mostly) by human beings. Yet, we are dealing with spiritual things, or that which inspires those human beings. You might just consider a testimony of a high ex-ocultist:


I have others also, ex-atheist, ex-catholic, ex-occultist (at highest levels of state):



When the Bible is considered on the whole, one sees the common mind behind it all from Genesis to Revelation.

,it's also said that the early church changed or omitted a lot
That is bogus historic revisionism. Study the text itself, and you will see that no such thing occurred.

so to me that's what it amounts too,an old culture and it's old myths that have changed over time.
You presently have half-baked assertions, and no evidence. I can document everything I say.
 

coconut theology

coconuts for Jesus
They can't burn us as heretics anymore so they gotta try something.
I do not think you know anything outside of your every day routine. People are still being killed (including by fire, see Africa, placing tires around the necks and lighting them on fire to burn to death, etc) by the system mentioned in scripture, and they justify it using their abuse of scripture, and their official doctrine still holds true today, as it did then:

Latin:

“...C. XLVII. Non sunt homicidae qui adversus excommunicatos zelo matris ecclesiae armantur ..."

English:

...They are not to be accounted murderers who, zealous for the mother church, have killed excommunicated persons. ...” [“The Decretum of Gratian Part 2 Case 23 Question 5 chapter 47-48”; Decreti Secunda Pars Causa XXIII. Quest. V. c. 47-49; [47,48 specifically; section 49 given in 'defense' of these actions/reasons]] –

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_6029936_001/pages/ldpd_6029936_001_00000531.html?toggle=image&menu=maximize&top=&left= AND http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_6029936_001/pages/ldpd_6029936_001_00000532.html?toggle=image&menu=maximize&top=&left=

It's in the Summa Theologica of (the so called) 'holy sainted doctor' Thomas Aquinas, and in the current Catechism and Canon Law and I can cite current canon Lawyers on this.
 

coconut theology

coconuts for Jesus
haha. Now they whine and wail about how persecuted
they
are.
I see you know very little of the systems that are in place, all around you. Don't watch at your own peril, but I did attempt to share warning with you. You do not have any idea of what is coming. I do. All too recent History is about to repeat itself on a massive global scale.





It is already happening in some areas:


What is shown here, I can document for you from official sources.
 

coconut theology

coconuts for Jesus
Most atheists (besides being ignorant of what scripture does actually teach) are utterly ignorant of history (except what their public high school or even collegiate text book told them), the connections of events of wars and maneuvers, and those which are knowledgeable, choose to ignore that which would show them the Bible is true because it is too accurate in its details.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I see you know very little of the systems that are in place, all around you. Don't watch at your own peril, but I did attempt to share warning with you. You do not have any idea of what is coming. I do. All too recent History is about to repeat itself on a massive global scale.





It is already happening in some areas:


What is shown here, I can document for you from official sources.


"official sources" :D

Look I am aware that people of all sorts get persecuted
at different times and places, for divers reasons.

Chinese certainly got persecuted in the USA- not that
it gets mentioned in your sanitized currlicula.
Persecuted far far worse than anything remotely comparable
that has happened to "Christians" in the USA.

"systems in place"
"History is about to repeat itself on a massive global scale."

Wjhatevs, guy. I couldnt be more sure you are a prophet
if you got a robe, long beard and some sort of sack to
wear, then went about barefoot with a sign saying the end
is near.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Most atheists (besides being ignorant of what scripture does actually teach) are utterly ignorant of history (except what their public high school or even collegiate text book told them), the connections of events of wars and maneuvers, and those which are knowledgeable, choose to ignore that which would show them the Bible is true because it is too accurate in its details.

Terrific, criticize people you dont know, cannot identify,
are not present for not knowing some vague something that
you probably made up.
And then you invent a ridiculous motive "choose to ignore...
too true". That is an insulting lie. Shame shame.

That sure puts you on a pedestal!
All bow.

The bible is pretty accurate when it identifies rivers, mountains,
and oh yeah, Egypt!
But when it talks of the important things like, creation of the earth,
flood, exodus, etc, it is just bs.

Anyone so profoundly ignorant and brainwashed that they
think there really was a flood are in a very poor position to
criticize anyone for being ignorant.

What is your motive for choosing to ignore this uncomfortable fact?
 

coconut theology

coconuts for Jesus
Mention?? I should say. Look what Allah has in store for
me for the sin of going about in public with my hair uncovered!!
https://www.google.com/search?q=isl...oECBoQBA&biw=736&bih=374#imgrc=YrC2xrzmeogTGM:

That is just mean! I would get so tired of hanging by my hair.
Having studied thoroughly the religion of Islam, and its source matierals, in qur'an, Sahih (and not so Sahih) aHadith, Tafsirs, Sunnah, etc and having qur'an on my shelf with access to the Sahih Hadith, and the history of Islam, from Muslim as well as other sources, I can say Islam and it false god 'allah' (Lord of the Kaaba, the black stone and silver yoni) that it does indeed teach eternal (even increasing) conscious torments for those in it seven levels of hellfire. For instance, I do not need "google" as I can cite the direct soucre material:

Jami at-Tirmidhi, Volume 6, Glossary; page 584-585 -

“... [page 584] Jahannam: Most commonly understood to mean Hell described as a place of torment, sorrow, and remorse. Islam teaches that God does not wish [page 584-585] to send anyone to Hell, yet justice demands that righteous people be rewarded and those who insist on evil living without repentance and on denial of God be punished. In fact, it is one of the levels of Hell. There are seven levels of Hell-fire: 1. Jahim—the shallowest level of Hell. It is reserved for those who believed in Allah and His Messenger, but who ignored His commands. 2. Jahannam—a deeper level where the idol-worshippers are to be sent on the Day of Judgment. 3. Sa'ir—is reserved for the worshippers of fire. 4. Saqar—this is where those who did not believe in Allah will be sent on the Day of Judgment. 5. Ladha—will be the home of the Jews. 6. Hawiyah— will be the abode of the Christians. 7. Hutamah—the deepest level of Hell-fire. This is where the religious hypocrites will spend eternity. The worst of Allah's creation are the Munafiqin (hypocrites), whether they be of mankind or jinn, for they outwardly appear to accept, but inwardly reject Allah and His Messenger. A dweller of Hell is called a Jahannami. ...”​

And I have hundreds of other such citations from official Islamic sources.

That such an amalgamational system teaches it, doesn't make it true. One such test, would be to compare it to the character of God. God's character is Love, being both Just and Merciful. You do not have to believe God exists to test. All you have to do, is to carry out the experiment of "if" and follow the consequences to their final conclusions.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Having studied thoroughly the religion of Islam, and its source matierals, in qur'an, Sahih (and not so Sahih) aHadith, Tafsirs, Sunnah, etc and having qur'an on my shelf with access to the Sahih Hadith, and the history of Islam, from Muslim as well as other sources, I can say Islam and it false god 'allah' (Lord of the Kaaba, the black stone and silver yoni) that it does indeed teach eternal (even increasing) conscious torments for those in it seven levels of hellfire. For instance, I do not need "google" as I can cite the direct soucre material:

Jami at-Tirmidhi, Volume 6, Glossary; page 584-585 -

“... [page 584] Jahannam: Most commonly understood to mean Hell described as a place of torment, sorrow, and remorse. Islam teaches that God does not wish [page 584-585] to send anyone to Hell, yet justice demands that righteous people be rewarded and those who insist on evil living without repentance and on denial of God be punished. In fact, it is one of the levels of Hell. There are seven levels of Hell-fire: 1. Jahim—the shallowest level of Hell. It is reserved for those who believed in Allah and His Messenger, but who ignored His commands. 2. Jahannam—a deeper level where the idol-worshippers are to be sent on the Day of Judgment. 3. Sa'ir—is reserved for the worshippers of fire. 4. Saqar—this is where those who did not believe in Allah will be sent on the Day of Judgment. 5. Ladha—will be the home of the Jews. 6. Hawiyah— will be the abode of the Christians. 7. Hutamah—the deepest level of Hell-fire. This is where the religious hypocrites will spend eternity. The worst of Allah's creation are the Munafiqin (hypocrites), whether they be of mankind or jinn, for they outwardly appear to accept, but inwardly reject Allah and His Messenger. A dweller of Hell is called a Jahannami. ...”​

And I have hundreds of other such citations from official Islamic sources.

That such an amalgamational system teaches it, doesn't make it true. One such test, would be to compare it to the character of God. God's character is Love, being both Just and Merciful. You do not have to believe God exists to test. All you have to do, is to carry out the experiment of "if" and follow the consequences to their final conclusions.

One moslem says this, and another says that.
I dont believe any of it.

(as for your experiment, I am not about to start
covering my hair. lets see you be that courageous in
some experiment! :D)
 

coconut theology

coconuts for Jesus
One moslem says this, and another says that.
I dont believe any of it.
It goes to show that you do not understand Islam, at all. It is not what "one moslem says" over another. It is what "allah" and "Muhammad" said/did. (period).

(btw, if you choose not to believe it (Islam) you have 3 choices to start with, [1] convert as a lie and hope to masquerade long enough, [2] die and spit in their face. [3] pay the Jizyah so long as it is accepted, after which you are back to two choices, see Surah 9 in context.)

(as for your experiment, I am not about to start
covering my hair. lets see you be that courageous in
some experiment! :D)
No one asked you to cover your hair as an experiment. That was not the experiment at all. It seems basic reading and comprehension skills are lacking.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I am speaking from experience, and those I do know.

Anyone can say whatever they like, but it does
not make them believable.

Guess your reading and comprehension is not sufficient
for you to notice that I said this, which is actually a more
significant detail than your chosen perception of and insults
directed at others...


of course if you dont believe in the flood, say so...

Anyone so profoundly ignorant and brainwashed that they
think there really was a flood are in a very poor position to
criticize anyone for being ignorant.

What is your motive for choosing to ignore this uncomfortable fact?
 
Last edited:

Audie

Veteran Member
It goes to show that you do not understand Islam, at all. It is not what "one moslem says" over another. It is what "allah" and "Muhammad" said/did. (period).

(btw, if you choose not to believe it (Islam) you have 3 choices to start with, [1] convert as a lie and hope to masquerade long enough, [2] die and spit in their face. [3] pay the Jizyah so long as it is accepted, after which you are back to two choices, see Surah 9 in context.)

No one asked you to cover your hair as an experiment. That was not the experiment at all. It seems basic reading and comprehension skills are lacking.

Uncalled for and insulting, but then, we have been around
goddists and know how they are.

You suggested an experiment; I am conducting one.
If Islam is correct, then I will find out to my sorrow.

I dont care, and am not interested in all or any of the
different versions of any of the abrahamic sky-god
religions, or, for that matter, any of the countless other
cults.

My experience btw, with most godists like you is that
they are arrogant, abusive and insulting.
Great advertisement for what ever "faith" you are promoting.
 
Last edited:

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
I do not think you know anything outside of your every day routine. People are still being killed (including by fire, see Africa, placing tires around the necks and lighting them on fire to burn to death, etc) by the system mentioned in scripture, and they justify it using their abuse of scripture, and their official doctrine still holds true today, as it did then:

Latin:

“...C. XLVII. Non sunt homicidae qui adversus excommunicatos zelo matris ecclesiae armantur ..."

English:

...They are not to be accounted murderers who, zealous for the mother church, have killed excommunicated persons. ...” [“The Decretum of Gratian Part 2 Case 23 Question 5 chapter 47-48”; Decreti Secunda Pars Causa XXIII. Quest. V. c. 47-49; [47,48 specifically; section 49 given in 'defense' of these actions/reasons]] –

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_6029936_001/pages/ldpd_6029936_001_00000531.html?toggle=image&menu=maximize&top=&left= AND http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_6029936_001/pages/ldpd_6029936_001_00000532.html?toggle=image&menu=maximize&top=&left=

It's in the Summa Theologica of (the so called) 'holy sainted doctor' Thomas Aquinas, and in the current Catechism and Canon Law and I can cite current canon Lawyers on this.

Wow I'd like to see a Muslim response to Islam being a Catholic church project.

When I started school at age 5 the first thing they did was to give me a gideon Bible and every morning before class we had to sing hyms and pray or a mini sermon,all the stories of Noah and such so I actually grew up listening to it.

In secondary school this continued but this time we could skip that part of school if we wanted to,lucky for me my parents gave me the choice so skip it I did.

Theres some great stories in the Bible but no proof that most of it actually happened.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Wow I'd like to see a Muslim response to Islam being a Catholic church project.

When I started school at age 5 the first thing they did was to give me a gideon Bible and every morning before class we had to sing hyms and pray or a mini sermon,all the stories of Noah and such so I actually grew up listening to it.

In secondary school this continued but this time we could skip that part of school if we wanted to,lucky for me my parents gave me the choice so skip it I did.

Theres some great stories in the Bible but no proof that most of it actually happened.

Plenty of proof that the important parts did not happen.
 
Top