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"Christian Moms Group Condemns Hallmark Channel for Airing Lesbian Wedding Ad"

JesusKnowsYou

Active Member
I don't think you understand the concept of comparing. Your last line was a difference. When one compares two different things one will often say both how they are alike and how they are different.

Like it or not we can all see the comparison.
This makes no sense to me.

You are claiming that if someone were to mention two different things, yet claim that they are not comparing those two things to one another, that they are somehow inadvertently still comparing those two things no matter what?

Their reasons for mentioning those two different things or what they claim about those two different things don't matter at all?

It sounds like you are just making stuff up and trying to rewrite what I said.

I never compared pedophilia to homosexuality.

You all know that what I shared was completely reasonable, but you don't like that, so you made something up to cry "Foul!" over.

Rather than be honest and just agree to disagree - you try to make me look immoral - but unfortunately for you I did not say anything immoral.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
This makes no sense to me.

You are claiming that if someone were to mention two different things, yet claim that they are not comparing those two things to one another, that they are somehow inadvertently still comparing those two things no matter what?

Their reasons for mentioning those two different things or what they claim about those two different things don't matter at all?

It sounds like you are just making stuff up and trying to rewrite what I said.

I never compared pedophilia to homosexuality.

You all know that what I shared was completely reasonable, but you don't like that, so you made something up to cry "Foul!" over.

Rather than be honest and just agree to disagree - you try to make me look immoral - but unfortunately for you I did not say anything immoral.
No. A common tactic in debate against homosexuality is to bring up pedophilia, either as a simile, a direct comparison or sometimes even just as a red herring. It’s even earned its own logical fallacy. False equivocation. Everyone has seen this tactic so many times we can quote it verbatim in our sleep.
Maybe it wasn’t your intention to draw a comparison, maybe it was. I don’t see what goes on in your mind. But the result is always the same. Bring up something obviously harmful, even outside of religious arguments, like pedophilia in a discussion surrounding homosexuality. The result is to try to get people to associate the two things on a subconscious level. This is why multiple people on the board took umbrage with the inclusion of pedophilia in your statements.
 

JesusKnowsYou

Active Member
No. A common tactic in debate against homosexuality is to bring up pedophilia, either as a simile, a direct comparison or sometimes even just as a red herring. It’s even earned its own logical fallacy. False equivocation. Everyone has seen this tactic so many times we can quote it verbatim in our sleep.
Maybe it wasn’t your intention to draw a comparison, maybe it was. I don’t see what goes on in your mind. But the result is always the same. Bring up something obviously harmful, even outside of religious arguments, like pedophilia in a discussion surrounding homosexuality. The result is to try to get people to associate the two things on a subconscious level. This is why multiple people on the board took umbrage with the inclusion of pedophilia in your statements.
Can you name a better example of an inappropriate sexual attraction than an attraction to children?
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
All you said was, "I don't really care enough about this."

You never claimed it had anything to do with you not liking me.

I could not misrepresent what you said because you failed to share key information. That's not on me.

I do think it is funny that you are claiming that I misrepresented what you said when you never mentioned your dislike for me before.

I also find it hypocritical of you to claim that I misrepresented what you said, when you and others have been doing that to me this entire time.

The key different between you and I is that I claimed explicitly that I was not comparing pedophilia to homosexuality - while you never mentioned you disliked me or that your dislike was your reason to not care about this discussion anymore.

My supposed "misrepresentation" of what you said was based on you failing to mention a key fact while your misrepresentation of what I said was based on you ignoring a key fact I had mentioned.

Anyways - Why don't you like me?

Because we disagree?

Or because I gave you completely reasonable advice to not make claims about subjects you don't know enough about?
^Don't care enough to read this. *clicks ignore*
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Can you name a better example of an inappropriate sexual attraction than an attraction to children?
Why would you even bring it up, though?
Same sex attraction is an adult sexual orientation. Objectively speaking it bears no real relation at all to attraction to prepubescent children.
It’s a red herring. A disingenuous rhetorical device designed to get the audience to be more receptive to homophobia. I know it, other RFers know it, gay people know it. The cat’s out of the bag, time to find a more sophisticated technique
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
I cannot agree with this determination.

Let's say, my argument's sake, that the Bible never existed - would slavery still exist? Would the Enlightenment had happened the way it happened?
Apples and oranges. Slavery existed before the Bible, whereas the Enlightenment happened after. If, however, you understand that enlightenment philosophy was drawn from philosophies that existed before the Bible, you realize that the Bible wasn't a strictly necessary source of morality.

The Bible is not the source of morality - God is - but it was the tool that had been used to preserve the morals and rationales that helped shape the Enlightenment.
You could argue that the Bible was an important and informative text in that regard, although almost as much of it had to be disposed of or ignored in order to formulate enlightenment thinking. In many ways, the philosophies of the ancient Greeks were far more informative.

I don't agree with this assessment, but if we follow the logic that that which "pre-dates" should take all the credit, then all credit should go to God.
Except I don't believe God exists, so that's a dead-end. We're dealing with the real-world sources of philosophies, not postulating on possible supernatural causes without evidence.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Let's cut through the BS.

In my initial response to a forum member's questions (post #326) immediately after I mentioned a list of weaknesses that included "an attraction to children" I said,

"Before you flip your lid, I'm not trying to say that all of these attractions are exactly the same, but depending on who you ask people will draw a line somewhere as to what is or is not appropriate sexual behavior."

How do you interpret this statement?

I have repeated this example many times to various people and everyone ignores it.
I don't think I've ever said that you've said that pedophilia and homosexuality are exactly the same. What I've said is that I think you've made an error in comparing them. Things don't have to be idential in order to compare them. :shrug:
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Why didn't you quote any of the information under the "Religion" heading?

Because it proves that what I said was true?
" ...the central doctrines of the Enlightenment philosophers were individual liberty and religious tolerance, in opposition to an absolute monarchy and the fixed dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church. The Enlightenment was marked by an emphasis on the scientific method and reductionism, along with increased questioning of religious orthodoxy—an attitude captured by Immanuel Kant's essay Sapere aude (Dare to know).[7] ......


...A number of novel ideas about religion developed with the Enlightenment, including deism and talk of atheism. According to Thomas Paine, deism is the simple belief in God the Creator, with no reference to the Bible or any other miraculous source. Instead, the deist relies solely on personal reason to guide his creed,[71] which was eminently agreeable to many thinkers of the time.[72] Atheism was much discussed, but there were few proponents. Wilson and Reill note: "In fact, very few enlightened intellectuals, even when they were vocal critics of Christianity, were true atheists. Rather, they were critics of orthodox belief, wedded rather to skepticism, deism, vitalism, or perhaps pantheism".[73] Some followed Pierre Bayle and argued that atheists could indeed be moral men.[74] Many others like Voltaire held that without belief in a God who punishes evil, the moral order of society was undermined. That is, since atheists gave themselves to no Supreme Authority and no law and had no fear of eternal consequences, they were far more likely to disrupt society.[75] Bayle (1647–1706) observed that, in his day, "prudent persons will always maintain an appearance of [religion]," and he believed that even atheists could hold concepts of honor and go beyond their own self-interest to create and interact in society.[76] Locke said that if there were no God and no divine law, the result would be moral anarchy: every individual "could have no law but his own will, no end but himself. He would be a god to himself, and the satisfaction of his own will the sole measure and end of all his actions."[77]"
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Why does my opinion on racial tensions in the U.S. "settle" your opinion about my religion?

You can think what you want about me, but what I said has nothing to do with the doctrine and teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Why do you assume that all Latter-day Saints would agree with me about the racial tensions in the U.S.?

They don't. We don't all agree on everything. We do not share a "hive mind". There is no "LDS Script" that every member needs to follow.

Why do you keep making such hasty, inconsistent and irresponsible judgments?

You are free to do that, but you can't blame me for disagreeing with you and pointing when you are being hasty, inconsistent and irresponsible.

Just like I cannot blame you for disagreeing with me and pointing out when I am being hasty, inconsistent or irresponsible.

However, you only seem to be able to point out "flaws" in my arguments after either -

- lying by making them up (claiming that I compared same-sex attraction to an attraction to children - never happened) or,

- by making completely irrational and nonsensical arguments (claiming that me sharing my opinion is "similar" to raping children - it isn't).

So, I appreciate you sharing your opinion, but your behavior causes me to place no value in it.

I will now reiterate my position on racial tensions in the U.S. -

The only people in the U.S. who are systematically being denied opportunities or privileges due to their race are white people.

The same could be said about men. They are also being systematically oppressed for being men.


Thanks for your time.
What I wonder is, how can anyone say that with a straight face?
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
This makes no sense to me.

You are claiming that if someone were to mention two different things, yet claim that they are not comparing those two things to one another, that they are somehow inadvertently still comparing those two things no matter what?

Their reasons for mentioning those two different things or what they claim about those two different things don't matter at all?

It sounds like you are just making stuff up and trying to rewrite what I said.

I never compared pedophilia to homosexuality.

You all know that what I shared was completely reasonable, but you don't like that, so you made something up to cry "Foul!" over.

Rather than be honest and just agree to disagree - you try to make me look immoral - but unfortunately for you I did not say anything immoral.
If we all thought what you had shared was "completely reasonable" we would have said so, and wouldn't have taken issue with it.
No need to put words in our mouths and claim we're liars - we're perfectly capable of representing ourselves, and you have yet to point out what any of us are lying about.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
No. A common tactic in debate against homosexuality is to bring up pedophilia, either as a simile, a direct comparison or sometimes even just as a red herring. It’s even earned its own logical fallacy. False equivocation. Everyone has seen this tactic so many times we can quote it verbatim in our sleep.
Maybe it wasn’t your intention to draw a comparison, maybe it was. I don’t see what goes on in your mind. But the result is always the same. Bring up something obviously harmful, even outside of religious arguments, like pedophilia in a discussion surrounding homosexuality. The result is to try to get people to associate the two things on a subconscious level. This is why multiple people on the board took umbrage with the inclusion of pedophilia in your statements.
This ^^^
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Why does my opinion on racial tensions in the U.S. "settle" your opinion about my religion?

You can think what you want about me, but what I said has nothing to do with the doctrine and teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
It's occurred to me, rereading, that I wasn't very clear.

I wasn't talking about your religious community exactly(although I have a lot of ethical problems with it).
I was talking about your personal religion. Your own ethics and image of God.

I understand that you, Katzpur, Warren Jeffs, and that guy who's wife
Is suing LDS, all identify as LDS.
LDS is your religious community.

But I don't consider you to have the same religion, really. There's too much about your beliefs, as expressed, that are extremely different to lump you all into the same religion.

Does that help clarify my point?
Tom
 

JesusKnowsYou

Active Member
Why would you even bring it up, though?
Same sex attraction is an adult sexual orientation. Objectively speaking it bears no real relation at all to attraction to prepubescent children.
It’s a red herring. A disingenuous rhetorical device designed to get the audience to be more receptive to homophobia. I know it, other RFers know it, gay people know it. The cat’s out of the bag, time to find a more sophisticated technique
DO you believe in the idea that there could be an "inappropriate sexual attraction" at all?
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
DO you believe in the idea that there could be an "inappropriate sexual attraction" at all?
I can't fathom why you'd even ask that.

Of course there is. Underage people is the biggy. Nobody on RF has disagreed about that. The question is why you keep bringing it up in a conversation about competent adults cementing an adult relationship with state recognition.
Tom
 

JesusKnowsYou

Active Member
The real question is "why do you keep bringing up inappropriate sexual attraction?"
Because people keep asking me about my beliefs regarding sin and homosexuality.

I believe that a same-sex attraction is inappropriate.
The thread is about competent adults getting married. That's appropriate behavior.
That is your opinion, which I don't share.

Now would you finally care to explain why you claimed that my religion was "immoral" after you read my [personal opinion about racial tensions in the U.S.? (Post #486)

Then, would you please explain why (after I called you out for saying something so nonsensical) you lied and claimed that you did not claim that my religion was immoral? (Post #488)

I had asked you to explain yourself in a past post, but that post has mysteriously disappeared.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Those who owned slaves and attempted to justify it with the Bible were an insignificant minority of Christians in the United States.
As far as population goes, those who owned slaves where an insignificant minority of the United States. However, Christianity and using the Bible to justify slavery and racism has been extremely popular among slave owners and hate groups like the Klan.
 
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