Trump makes fatal and very flawed decision.

[shmogie]

President Trump has announced the withdrawal of all US troops from Northern Syria and in consultation with the President of Turkey has green lighted a Turkish invasion of Syria.

This is a massive error in a number of ways.

The Kurds have been a staunch ally of the US in fighting ISIS and al qa eda, for their loyalty and help they will now be abandoned to the Turks, who will slaughter them. Once again showing the US abandons itś allies in regional wars.

Turkey, once a valued secular ally, has fallen under the dictatorship of a muslim idealogue, and is more and more becoming a radical Islamic state. Trump has now empowered them more fully, and their is no doubt that after their invasion, they will annex part of Syria. This will only further encourage the ideas of a pan Islamic caliphate and the return of the Ottoman empire.

This decision strengthens Russian ambitions in the area, Syria will cling to Russia as a counterbalance to Turkey, and will agree to whatever Russia demands. As Russia fills the vacuum left by the departure of the US. others in the area will be forced to make deals with them, to our disadvantage.

As I looked at Trump in 2016 I supported most of his domestic ideas, but was put off by his isolationist foreign
policy thoughts. I hoped that advisers would keep him on the rails in this area, and applauded John Bolton as one who would. In my view, contrary to his detractors, Bolton knows the world thoroughly, understands diplomacy from a position of strength, and doesn´t just throw his hands up and quit.

Throughout his Presidency, I have waited for the real clanger in Trumps foreign policy.

Boltons resignation was the first shoe to drop, I knew something really bad was very likely to come.

The second shoe has dropped, and as I feared, it is the harbinger of disaster.

 

[Stevicus]

President Trump has announced the withdrawal of all US troops from Northern Syria and in consultation with the President of Turkey has green lighted a Turkish invasion of Syria.

This is a massive error in a number of ways.

The Kurds have been a staunch ally of the US in fighting ISIS and al qa eda, for their loyalty and help they will now be abandoned to the Turks, who will slaughter them. Once again showing the US abandons itś allies in regional wars.

Turkey, once a valued secular ally, has fallen under the dictatorship of a muslim idealogue, and is more and more becoming a radical Islamic state. Trump has now empowered them more fully, and their is no doubt that after their invasion, they will annex part of Syria. This will only further encourage the ideas of a pan Islamic caliphate and the return of the Ottoman empire.

This decision strengthens Russian ambitions in the area, Syria will cling to Russia as a counterbalance to Turkey, and will agree to whatever Russia demands. As Russia fills the vacuum left by the departure of the US. others in the area will be forced to make deals with them, to our disadvantage.

As I looked at Trump in 2016 I supported most of his domestic ideas, but was put off by his isolationist foreign
policy thoughts. I hoped that advisers would keep him on the rails in this area, and applauded John Bolton as one who would. In my view, contrary to his detractors, Bolton knows the world thoroughly, understands diplomacy from a position of strength, and doesn´t just throw his hands up and quit.

Throughout his Presidency, I have waited for the real clanger in Trumps foreign policy.

Boltons resignation was the first shoe to drop, I knew something really bad was very likely to come.

The second shoe has dropped, and as I feared, it is the harbinger of disaster.

A few points I would make here.

For one, the US isn't "green lighting" anything here. Neither Syria nor Turkey are US territory, so it's not in our power to either approve or disapprove an invasion of either country.

Secondly, US policy has traditionally deferred to Turkey on various issues, particularly in regards to the Kurds. So, this is hardly any "major departure" from previous US foreign policy. Trump is not an isolationist, and his foreign policy seems to fall generally in line with what we had before. (Note that I'm not saying that it's a good policy or that I agree with it. But it doesn't seem to be that much different than what we were doing before.)

As for the Russians, they might very well try to use this to their advantage, but Syria is already a Russian ally - and an invasion of Syria by Turkey could lead to hostilities between Russia and Turkey.

 

[Ouroboros]

There's so much going wrong right now... I can't even...

 

[Nakosis]

President Trump has announced the withdrawal of all US troops from Northern Syria and in consultation with the President of Turkey has green lighted a Turkish invasion of Syria.

This is a massive error in a number of ways.

The Kurds have been a staunch ally of the US in fighting ISIS and al qa eda, for their loyalty and help they will now be abandoned to the Turks, who will slaughter them. Once again showing the US abandons itś allies in regional wars.

Turkey, once a valued secular ally, has fallen under the dictatorship of a muslim idealogue, and is more and more becoming a radical Islamic state. Trump has now empowered them more fully, and their is no doubt that after their invasion, they will annex part of Syria. This will only further encourage the ideas of a pan Islamic caliphate and the return of the Ottoman empire.

This decision strengthens Russian ambitions in the area, Syria will cling to Russia as a counterbalance to Turkey, and will agree to whatever Russia demands. As Russia fills the vacuum left by the departure of the US. others in the area will be forced to make deals with them, to our disadvantage.

As I looked at Trump in 2016 I supported most of his domestic ideas, but was put off by his isolationist foreign
policy thoughts. I hoped that advisers would keep him on the rails in this area, and applauded John Bolton as one who would. In my view, contrary to his detractors, Bolton knows the world thoroughly, understands diplomacy from a position of strength, and doesn´t just throw his hands up and quit.

Throughout his Presidency, I have waited for the real clanger in Trumps foreign policy.

Boltons resignation was the first shoe to drop, I knew something really bad was very likely to come.

The second shoe has dropped, and as I feared, it is the harbinger of disaster.

It is such a mess over there. Hard to know who the good guys are, ally or not. I'm afraid whatever we do the US will get blamed for screwing things up.

 

[sooda]

President Trump has announced the withdrawal of all US troops from Northern Syria and in consultation with the President of Turkey has green lighted a Turkish invasion of Syria.

This is a massive error in a number of ways.

The Kurds have been a staunch ally of the US in fighting ISIS and al qa eda, for their loyalty and help they will now be abandoned to the Turks, who will slaughter them. Once again showing the US abandons itś allies in regional wars.

Turkey, once a valued secular ally, has fallen under the dictatorship of a muslim idealogue, and is more and more becoming a radical Islamic state. Trump has now empowered them more fully, and their is no doubt that after their invasion, they will annex part of Syria. This will only further encourage the ideas of a pan Islamic caliphate and the return of the Ottoman empire.

This decision strengthens Russian ambitions in the area, Syria will cling to Russia as a counterbalance to Turkey, and will agree to whatever Russia demands. As Russia fills the vacuum left by the departure of the US. others in the area will be forced to make deals with them, to our disadvantage.

As I looked at Trump in 2016 I supported most of his domestic ideas, but was put off by his isolationist foreign
policy thoughts. I hoped that advisers would keep him on the rails in this area, and applauded John Bolton as one who would. In my view, contrary to his detractors, Bolton knows the world thoroughly, understands diplomacy from a position of strength, and doesn´t just throw his hands up and quit.

Throughout his Presidency, I have waited for the real clanger in Trumps foreign policy.

Boltons resignation was the first shoe to drop, I knew something really bad was very likely to come.

The second shoe has dropped, and as I feared, it is the harbinger of disaster.

Trump has TWO trump towers in Turkey, He made this decision on the fly without consultation while he was on the phone with Erdogan. The WH is flipped out over it.

 

[dianaiad]

It is such a mess over there. Hard to know who the good guys are, ally or not. I'm afraid whatever we do the US will get blamed for screwing things up.

You don't need to be afraid that we MIGHT be blamed. That is guaranteed. No matter what, we WILL be blamed. It's too convenient to throw the blame on the USA. As for me, I'd rather be blamed for not interfering any more than for interfering the wrong way. I wish that we would get all the way outa there, defending only Israel if they get attacked. Not supporting Israel if they attack others, just defending them against attack. Everybody else can sort themselves out. We'll still be blamed, but hey....there's no getting around that bit.

 

[sooda]

You don't need to be afraid that we MIGHT be blamed. That is guaranteed. No matter what, we WILL be blamed. It's too convenient to throw the blame on the USA. As for me, I'd rather be blamed for not interfering any more than for interfering the wrong way. I wish that we would get all the way outa there, defending only Israel if they get attacked. Not supporting Israel if they attack others, just defending them against attack. Everybody else can sort themselves out. We'll still be blamed, but hey....there's no getting around that bit.

Donald Trump Makes Up To $1 Million Per Year From Trump ...
https://www.inquisitr.com/5678900/donald-trump-tower-istanbul-turkey-documents
Oct 07, 2019 · In 2012, Donald Trump opened a twin tower structure in Turkey under the brand name Trump Towers Istanbul. The buildings were constructed and remain owned by a Turkish company, but Trump licensed his name to the project and continues to derive significant revenue from fees for the use if …

 

[sooda]

There's so much going wrong right now... I can't even...

Trump makes a million dollars a year on Trump

Towers Istanbul.

Trump Towers, Istanbul, Sisli | The Trump Organization ...
https://www.trump.com/residential-real-estate-portfolio/trump-towers-istanbul-turkey
Trump Towers, Istanbul, Sisli is a landmark in the historic city of Istanbul. With two towers rising in Mecidiyekoy, one of the city's most vibrant areas, the property captures the utmost in luxury. The residential tower, just under 40 stories, consists of over 200 residences, and will feature the expansive layouts, meticulous eye for design and lavish finishes synonymous with the Trump name.

 

[Twilight Hue]

President Trump has announced the withdrawal of all US troops from Northern Syria and in consultation with the President of Turkey has green lighted a Turkish invasion of Syria.

This is a massive error in a number of ways.

The Kurds have been a staunch ally of the US in fighting ISIS and al qa eda, for their loyalty and help they will now be abandoned to the Turks, who will slaughter them. Once again showing the US abandons itś allies in regional wars.

Turkey, once a valued secular ally, has fallen under the dictatorship of a muslim idealogue, and is more and more becoming a radical Islamic state. Trump has now empowered them more fully, and their is no doubt that after their invasion, they will annex part of Syria. This will only further encourage the ideas of a pan Islamic caliphate and the return of the Ottoman empire.

This decision strengthens Russian ambitions in the area, Syria will cling to Russia as a counterbalance to Turkey, and will agree to whatever Russia demands. As Russia fills the vacuum left by the departure of the US. others in the area will be forced to make deals with them, to our disadvantage.

As I looked at Trump in 2016 I supported most of his domestic ideas, but was put off by his isolationist foreign
policy thoughts. I hoped that advisers would keep him on the rails in this area, and applauded John Bolton as one who would. In my view, contrary to his detractors, Bolton knows the world thoroughly, understands diplomacy from a position of strength, and doesn´t just throw his hands up and quit.

Throughout his Presidency, I have waited for the real clanger in Trumps foreign policy.

Boltons resignation was the first shoe to drop, I knew something really bad was very likely to come.

The second shoe has dropped, and as I feared, it is the harbinger of disaster.

Yea. You don't want ISiS making a comeback.

Colin Powell is right , our foreign policy is in shambles.

 

[Nakosis]

Donald Trump Makes Up To $1 Million Per Year From Trump ...
https://www.inquisitr.com/5678900/donald-trump-tower-istanbul-turkey-documents
Oct 07, 2019 · In 2012, Donald Trump opened a twin tower structure in Turkey under the brand name Trump Towers Istanbul. The buildings were constructed and remain owned by a Turkish company, but Trump licensed his name to the project and continues to derive significant revenue from fees for the use if …

Another reason for Turkey to keep Trump happy, I mean if they want to keep using the name of a person of unmatched wisdom.

 

[Ouroboros]

There's a reason he doesn't want the tax returns exposed.

 

[sun rise]

Trump loves dictators - Putin, Erdogan, Kim and all other autocrats except Xi (but he stays silent on Hong Kong). So there's nothing surprising in stiffing democratic Kurds in favor of Turkey.

This is totally in keeping with his preferences, and as pointed out, his financial interest which he puts over the welfare of the US.

And, as usual, he ignores and disparages any intelligent advice because he's the biggest genius there ever was.

Meanwhile, Senators who have kissed his butt to get a 'seat at the table' have found it was a bad bargain.

 

[sun rise]

I do find it interesting that those who have defended him here and those who have disparaged him are united on this one point at least.

 

[Shad]

President Trump has announced the withdrawal of all US troops from Northern Syria and in consultation with the President of Turkey has green lighted a Turkish invasion of Syria.

This is a massive error in a number of ways.

The Kurds have been a staunch ally of the US in fighting ISIS and al qa eda, for their loyalty and help they will now be abandoned to the Turks, who will slaughter them. Once again showing the US abandons itś allies in regional wars.

Kurds are not formal allies unlike Turkey which is in NATO. There is no Kurdish nation-state, there is no treaty of alliance with the US. Sad for the Kurds but this is what happens when a group thinks they are anything but a proxy by ignoring reality. The Syrian Kurds security is via Assad not the USA unless you want the USA to overthrow Assad thus get into conflict with Russia. Toss in there are actually 3, or more, faction of Kurds; Syrian, Iraqi and Turkish. The latter are not allies what so ever.

Turkey, once a valued secular ally, has fallen under the dictatorship of a muslim idealogue, and is more and more becoming a radical Islamic state. Trump has now empowered them more fully, and their is no doubt that after their invasion, they will annex part of Syria. This will only further encourage the ideas of a pan Islamic caliphate and the return of the Ottoman empire.

The only reason Turkey is in NATO is due to location. Turkey was never a great ally but one of convenience due to Russia and the Black Sea. In my view Turkey should have been dumped years ago as the pretext is no longer valid. Turkey was never a bastion of stability given it has faced multiple military coups in it's history.

This decision strengthens Russian ambitions in the area, Syria will cling to Russia as a counterbalance to Turkey, and will agree to whatever Russia demands. As Russia fills the vacuum left by the departure of the US. others in the area will be forced to make deals with them, to our disadvantage.

This was going to happen anyways unless Assad lost against one or more rebel groups or was overthrown by the USA. Syria has been an ally of Russia for decades.

As I looked at Trump in 2016 I supported most of his domestic ideas, but was put off by his isolationist foreign

This policy isn't isolationist as per troop deployment in KSA. Syria does not have oil. KSA does. Syria is a mess, KSA isn't. Beside it take little to redeploy the USAF which is the primary US military tool in Syria not ground troops. The Kurds are meat shields so the USAF can bomb ISIS. Considering ISIS had no air force or even a minor threat to USA air power the idea that withdrawal shows lack of strength is absurd. I am sure ISIS members when they were being bombed into the stone age were really thinking how weak the US is. The strength babble from Bolton is pure BS.

I hoped that advisers would keep him on the rails in this area, and applauded John Bolton as one who would. In my view, contrary to his detractors, Bolton knows the world thoroughly, understands diplomacy from a position of strength, and doesn´t just throw his hands up and quit.

Bolton is a war hawk. He would have the US tied up in foreign civil wars and foreign wars that just waste money and blood for decades. The US hasn't been able to figure out how to nation build since West Germany nor are the populations in question interested.

The second shoe has dropped, and as I feared, it is the harbinger of disaster.

The area has been a disaster for decades due to USA intervention policy. You should have figured this out by now or did nearly 20 years of Afghanistan and Iraq not clue you in.

There is a point which one accepts a loss and calls it quits. Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan are primary examples.

 

[sooda]

“I have a little conflict of interest ’cause I have a major, major building in Istanbul,” Trump boasted in response. “It’s a tremendously successful job. It’s called Trump Towers — two towers, instead of one, not the usual one; it’s two. And I’ve gotten to know Turkey very well.

They’re amazing people, they’re incredible people. They have a strong leader.”

He said then that the situation was “complicated,” adding, “I thrive on complicated.” Trump did not reveal what he would do in the region if he were to become commander in chief.

Trump On Turkey: 'I Have A Little Conflict Of Interest ... It's Called Trump Towers' | HuffPost

 

[Ouroboros]

There is a point which one accepts a loss and calls it quits. Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan are primary examples.

You make good points, but Trump did have time to call back the troops for 3 years and suddenly at this point of juncture, he decides just calling it quits? It's more like dodging while playing chicken. I think we have too much military presence in the world and try to police all nations, and that's one of the things I liked about Trump's inaugural speech. However, do it in a reasonable way, and not without breaking deals and promises. The rest of the world will learn America can't be trusted. That's not making America great in the world.

 

[columbus]

This decision strengthens Russian ambitions in the area, Syria will cling to Russia as a counterbalance to Turkey, and will agree to whatever Russia demands. As Russia fills the vacuum left by the departure of the US. others in the area will be forced to make deals with them, to our disadvantage.

I distinctly recall pointing out, a couple of years ago on RF, that Trump seemed more willing to support Russian ambitions than protect USA interests.
Especially in the mideast.

And now he's doing it. Is anyone surprised that Putin wanted Trump as President? I'm not.
Tom

 

[Shad]

You make good points, but Trump did have time to call back the troops for 3 years and suddenly at this point of juncture, he decides just calling it quits?

ISIS still held a lot of territory in 2 of those 3 years. Presently that is not the case. There are no major strongholds to bomb thus ROE dictate no action or reduced action. Unless you want to follow IDF policy of sympathizers are targets as per the concept of Total War.

It's more like dodging while playing chicken. I think we have too much military presence in the world and try to police all nations

Pretty much

However, do it in a reasonable way, and not without breaking deals and promises.

The USAF is the primary USA force in the area. There is little reason for any mission over Syria. More so those forces are still in the area fighting over KSA and Afghanistan. Withdrawing isn't an "end of the war" scenario like WW2.

The War on Terror is nothing but perpetual war as the West refuses to use measures to eradicate the ideology nor is a part of the population willing. Pieces are moved on the board but the game never ends.

The rest of the world will learn America can't be trusted. That's not making America great in the world.

The rest of the world did nothing but send mean letters. The USA at least got involved which sets it above any other nation-state except for Russia. The do-nothings can babble all they want but the record is clear for all that want to look. When push comes to shove the EU will do nothing as it is weak. Most of Asia will do nothing as it is corrupt or does not care. I wonder which side I would pick in such a situation... *Hint Its not the do-nothing states.

 

[columbus]

Here's what I think is happening.
Putin wants regional control of the oil production in the mideast. He's forming a bloc with Iran, Syria, Turkey, and Iraq.
It will soon be more powerful than the USA bloc, with Saudi Arabia and Israel.

Trump is helping Putin gain control of the incredibly valuable strategic asset that is the gulf oil region. Whether is because he's dumb and easily led or because he'll benefit financially, that's what Trump is doing. And he's been promising this since he started running for president.

It's absolutely no surprise that Putin wanted a billionaire playboy for president, rather than the experienced old warhawk. Clinton wouldn't have been so willing to sell out USA interests.
Tom

 

[columbus]

The do-nothings can babble all they want but the record is clear for all that want to look. When push comes to shove the EU will do nothing as it is weak.

Do you remember the old admonition, "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread"?
Tom