Why did the Jews reject their Messiah when he DID come?

[Tumah]

This is the standard, boiler plate Jewish response.

It's boilerplate because we have to keep repeating the explicit. Imagine you're running and people keep telling you, "there's a wall in front of you". Your response, "Such a typical remark". Would you rather people not told you about the wall you're about to run into?

Israel is mentioned in the first half of Isaiah 52. It then switches to a man.
This continues for the entirety of chapter 53.
This man will die for the nation and the world. In His death he will see what
He has accomplished in redeeming us, and be glad.
This is not Israel. The Jews do not redeem anyone, the Jew is not the pure
and spotless lamb.

That is not at all what happens in Isaiah 52. Israel is referred to as both masculine and feminine, in the singular and plural throughout the chapter.
In verses 1-2 Israel is metaphorically referred to as Zion, in the feminine singular.
In verse 3, Israel is referred to in the masculine plural.
In verses 4-6 Israel is referred to in the masculine singular.
In verses 7-10 Israel again is referred to in the feminine singular and feminine plural.
In verses 11-12 Israel is referred to in the masculine plural (and possibly in the feminine plural)
In verses 13-15 Israel is referred to in the masculine singular.

I never noticed it before, but you actually see a pattern there of feminine -> masculine plural -> masculine singular repeated twice.

In any case, once you realize that, you'll also see that your interpretation of Isa. 53 is also off.

 

[Desert Snake]

According to the Bible the whole world is deceived by the Antichrist's teachings, people are just not wise enough to understand it.

The God Most High (El Elyon) separated the nations among the Elohim in Deuteronomy 32:7-9; so we have the Source (EL), and then the Divine Council (Elohim - Psalms 82:1).

In Revelation there are 24 Elders (Elohim) who sit around God Almighty (El Shaddai).

Isaiah 46:9 paraphrases Deuteronomy 32:7 at the start, and then explains El is not like the Elohim; where the Children of Babylon i.e 'Fake Jews' will muddle up the language, claiming El and Elohim are the same thing...

Which is why they rejected Yeshua Elohim for thinking it means God, not an Archangel, as the language implies.

El = Source (H410)
EL + H = Eloh - a Divine Being (H433)
Eloh + Im = Plural Divine Beings (H430)

David in his Psalms declares Yahavah 'and' El Elyon in multiple sentences as two references, one is the Source (EL) of reality, the other is the Creator Being (Yahavah Elohim):

2 Samuel 22:14 & Psalms 18:13 Yahweh thundered from heaven 'and' The Most High uttered his voice. + Psalms 21:7 + Psalms 50:14 + Psalms 78:35 + Psalms 92:1

So who cares if the traditional ideas from scholarship don't agree with the Bible down near Hell before Judgement Day; only the wise will be in the Age to Come.

In my opinion.

I didn't say 'traditional ideas from scholarship'. I said traditional, which can be inferred. It can't or may not be inferred, if the Scripture is read in an incorrect way, so forth.

 

[wizanda]

Israel is referred to as both masculine and feminine, in the singular and plural throughout the chapter.

Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! Isaiah 5:21

It is amazing you've removed David as the Messiah, and think you have any chance of being in the Age to Come...

Yet as saying thank you for misinforming the Gentiles, you're doing a great job.

In my opinion.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Jesus said He was the Messiah to the woman and what more is there to believe?
I can't believe Jesus would lie.

The ghost that never lies just told me that you're wrong.

 

[Tumah]

This might be a circular argument.
Christians sees Christ as both Redeemer and King.
Zechariah speaks of the Coming King as being the one who
was pierced, the one who was lowly and riding upon a donkey

Zechariah 12
King and Redeemer

On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem.
And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem
a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have
pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and
grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

And what is the Jewish translation for this, Zechariah 12
On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem.
And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem
a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have
pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and
grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

You've quoted the same passage twice and I can't help but ask: have you ever actually read that passage in it's original context? Are you familiar with the narrative that is being prophesied there? Can you describe the events of the entire chapter?

 

[Rival]

The ghost that never lies just told me that you're wrong.

Shut up no I didn't!

 

[Desert Snake]

According to the Bible the whole world is deceived by the Antichrist's teachings, people are just not wise enough to understand it.

The God Most High (El Elyon) separated the nations among the Elohim in Deuteronomy 32:7-9; so we have the Source (EL), and then the Divine Council (Elohim - Psalms 82:1).

In Revelation there are 24 Elders (Elohim) who sit around God Almighty (El Shaddai).

Isaiah 46:9 paraphrases Deuteronomy 32:7 at the start, and then explains El is not like the Elohim; where the Children of Babylon i.e 'Fake Jews' will muddle up the language, claiming El and Elohim are the same thing...

Which is why they rejected Yeshua Elohim for thinking it means God, not an Archangel, as the language implies.

El = Source (H410)
EL + H = Eloh - a Divine Being (H433)
Eloh + Im = Plural Divine Beings (H430)

David in his Psalms declares Yahavah 'and' El Elyon in multiple sentences as two references, one is the Source (EL) of reality, the other is the Creator Being (Yahavah Elohim):

2 Samuel 22:14 & Psalms 18:13 Yahweh thundered from heaven 'and' The Most High uttered his voice. + Psalms 21:7 + Psalms 50:14 + Psalms 78:35 + Psalms 92:1

So who cares if the traditional ideas from scholarship don't agree with the Bible down near Hell before Judgement Day; only the wise will be in the Age to Come.

In my opinion.

I don't really know what you're trying to 'tell me', here.

For example,
2 Corinthians 6:18
' Lord Almighty'

In other words, the way you read that, Yeshua as an angel, you have polytheism, just speaking in a theological way. Forget false books and such, just theologically, your interpretation has polytheism.

You say that jesus is an angel, yet the New Testament does not say that.

So, to you, Jesus cannot be Lord, therefore not God.

So, did the writers make a mistake whenever they said 'Lord God'?
Adon'ai Elohim?
•
I believe you have added so much to your theology, that you are getting sidetracked into false Bible estimation.

 

[wizanda]

if the Scripture is read in an incorrect way,

I'm showing you clear evidence from the scriptures, and there are quite a few independent none traditional scholars (Dr Margaret Barker, Dr Michael Heiser, Dr Francesca Stavrakopoulou, etc), who agree that First temple theology was lost after the Babylonian Exile...

Yeshua tried to correct the Children of Israel back to the father (Malachi 4:4-6), as they no longer knew his father (Matthew 11:27)...

Instead they went opposite, and you're arguing their 'traditional' view is right.

So, did the writers make a mistake whenever they said 'Lord God'?
Adon'ai Elohim?

Yes, Yahavah Elohim translates as Lord + Creation - Divine Beings.

Adonai Elohim translates as My Master - Divine Beings.

So, to you, Jesus cannot be Lord, therefore not God.

Maybe even with me laying it out very simply for you, you need to spend more time studying, and less time assuming...

You've completely misinterpreted advanced concepts with the Bible

Yeshua is the Spirit of the Lord placed into David, he is a human; God is the Source of our reality.

Yehoshua is the right arm of the Lord of Creation being made down here, an archangel is beyond human form tho, and is an aspect of the One Source.

Yeshua as an angel, you have polytheism

Sorry that isn't even dealing with language properly, polytheism is to have multiple gods...

There is One Source, and then Divine Representatives; the clearest language is to call them Archangels, as that is what they are in the texts.

Elohim being the plurality Godhood.

Elohim are the Divine Council, which are Archangels who sit around the Throne of God.

In my opinion.

 

[Desert Snake]

I'm showing you clear evidence from the scriptures, and there are quite a few independent none traditional scholars (Dr Margaret Barker, Dr Michael Heiser, Dr Francesca Stavrakopoulou, etc), who agree that First temple theology was lost after the Babylonian Exile...

Yeshua tried to correct the Children of Israel back to the father (Malachi 4:4-6), as they no longer knew his father (Matthew 11:27)...

Instead they went opposite, and you're arguing their 'traditional' view is right.

Yes, Yahavah Elohim translates as Lord + Creation - Divine Beings.

Adonai Elohim translates as Master - Divine Beings.

Maybe even with me laying it out very simply for you, you need to spend more time studying, and less time assuming...

You've completely misinterpreted advanced concepts with the Bible

Yeshua is the Spirit of the Lord placed into David, he is a human; God is the Source of our reality.

Yehoshua is the right arm of the Lord of Creation being made down here, an archangel is beyond human form tho, and is an aspect of the One Source.

Sorry that isn't even dealing with language properly, polytheism is to have multiple gods...

There is One Source, and then Divine Representatives; the clearest language is to call them Archangels, as that is what they are in the texts.

In my opinion.

You are missing the arguments that you need, because you have assumed the established churches nonsense about judah having false divination.

The Yehudah,

Judah

Are named after 'God'.
•


This is why your 'curse' idea isn't making sense, also.
●
You are presenting the 'usual nonsense', that was formatted to separate the trinity, as believed by early christians. [Not separate beings, no mystery g-d, so forth.•

 

[wizanda]

The Yehudah,

Judah

Are named after 'God'.

Yehudah means "Those who praise the Lord".

Yehoshua is the Lord Saves.

It says in Exodus 23:20-23 that the Lord of Creation's title is placed on his messenger; who shall then have the power to forgive sin, and shall remove the fake theology from the land.

This is why your 'curse' idea isn't making sense

Moses's Curse is not my idea (Deuteronomy 28); it is what the Bible is about.

'usual nonsense',

Calling something nonsense means we're not trying to study, and understand it.

the trinity

The Trinity is a dumb idea to fit with Druidism.

There are 24 Elders (Archangels) in many religions, and One Source.

Speaking of which, why are you misreading, what I'm writing?

Show where you feel misunderstood?

In my opinion.

 

[Desert Snake]

@wizanda

Speaking of which, why are you misreading, what I'm writing?


No idea why you're doing that.

 

[wizanda]

Do I really need to write 'basic word correlates', to have a discussion with you?

Much of the translations, and ideas are off; so it is better to list the faulty details, else so much is missing it leads to error in comprehension.

You're arguing against things that I'm not writing.

It isn't an argument on my part; I'm an Archangel sent before Judgement Day with the new name of Christ, trying to help mankind understand the things before their destruction.

In my opinion.

 

[Desert Snake]

The Trinity is a dumb idea to fit with Druidism.

There are 24 Elders (Archangels) in many religions, and One Source.

In my opinion.

The Spirit isn't a person, in the Triune.

Notice how I have 'write out' everything, when Im talking to you? Or your strawman argument about 'elohim', which I never said 'elohim' was the only correlate to 'God, why the heck would I say that?

 

[Desert Snake]

Much of the translations, and ideas are off; so it is better to list the faulty details, else so much is missing it leads to error in comprehension.

In my opinion.

You have disassociated yourself religiously with the Lord, Adon'ai, so there isn't much to argue. You include other ideas, foreign entities, and it's messing up your interpretation. If you had a personal experience with deity, then why are you including all sorts of nonsense from other religions?

 

[Desert Snake]

Much of the translations, and ideas are off; so it is better to list the faulty details, else so much is missing it leads to error in comprehension.

It isn't an argument on my part; I'm an Archangel sent before Judgement Day with the new name of Christ, trying to help mankind understand the things before their destruction.

In my opinion.

Yes, a list would be nice. It doesn't need to be comprehensive, however you have gone way out there, by saying the Lord, isn't God.

 

[wizanda]

which I never said 'elohim' was the only correlate to 'God, why the heck would I say that?

The error isn't yours, it is the writers of the Bible... concepts have been muddled, and the only way to establish where the error starts is to identify it.

argument

Like debates are not meant to be arguments, where we try to put points down, that is for uneducated people; I'm simply showing hypothesis that exist within the texts, for us to relate our understandings.

The Spirit isn't a person, in the Triune.

Yeah, yet there are 24 Divine Beings, One Lamb, One God Most High, 7 Spirits of God, and that is a start...

So the Trinity was to match Druidism, and doesn't have Biblical roots, it is an over simplification of the theology in the texts.

If you had a personal experience with deity, then why are you including all sorts of nonsense from other religions?

I'm literally sent from Heaven, known the Divine Council since 4-5 years old, saw it in a NDE at 21; then read many of the world's religious texts which confirm it...

The only thing that doesn't, is after the Babylonian Exile Judah rejected the Divine Council.

however you have gone way out there, by saying the Lord, isn't God.

God is the Source of reality, which is beyond form, and like a CPU in a universal quantum computer system; the Lord of Creation (Yahavah) is a Divine Being (Elohim), made in this reality to interact with it, like an application created by the Source.

The Lord of Creation (Yahavah) is a projection from the Source, Yeshua (Salvation) is a projection from the Source, we are projections from the Source; mankind is down near Hell, as they reject this, and will soon be destroyed because of this, according to the religious texts globally.

In my opinion.

 

[Desert Snake]

The only thing that doesn't, is after the Babylonian Exile Judah rejected the Divine Council.

Didn't you argue elsewhere, that the jews went to monotheism, because of false religion, which occured during the exile?

 

[wizanda]

Didn't you argue elsewhere, that the jews went to monotheism, because of false religion, which occured during the exile?

Monotheism is to accept there is only One Source to all; the 'Fake Jews' have made Yahavah Elohim (which is a plural word to begin) into the head of the Divine Council, and an image of the Godhead (as it appears in form in the Bible)...

When El Elyon is beyond form, has no image, and has never interacted with mankind directly.

In my opinion.

 

[Desert Snake]

I'm showing you clear evidence from the scriptures, and there are quite a few independent none traditional scholars (Dr Margaret Barker, Dr Michael Heiser, Dr Francesca Stavrakopoulou, etc), who agree that First temple theology was lost after the Babylonian Exile...

Yeshua tried to correct the Children of Israel back to the father (Malachi 4:4-6), as they no longer knew his father (Matthew 11:27)...

Instead they went opposite, and you're arguing their 'traditional' view

Uh, no, Im saying the first part is wrong. The exile didn't introduce false theology.

 

[Desert Snake]

Monotheism is to accept there is only One Source to all; the 'Fake Jews' have made Yahavah Elohim (which is a plural word to begin) into the head of the Divine Council, and an image of the Godhead (as it appears in form in the Bible)...

When El Elyon is beyond form, has no image, and has never interacted with mankind directly.

In my opinion.

Thats called a mystery g-d.