The Folly of Atheism

[ratiocinator]

The folly of materialistic atheism is in dogmatically declaring Absolute Knowledge, based on limited awareness of the vastness of the universe through highly restricted human sensory organs.

If we cannot see, touch, hear, or smell, another dimension, it cannot exist.

I know of no atheists who would declare that (dogmatically or otherwise).

And when the consensus of humanity, for thousands of years, declares that there is, indeed, an unseen spiritual realm, the folly of denial, and pretense of smug superiority, seems even more absurd.

What consensus? The fact is that humans have believed in all sorts of unseen beings through their history. Are we to take all of humanity's superstitions seriously?

How can anyone be dogmatic, in the face of the vast unknown of the universe?

Ask a one of the theists who "know" that their god is real.

 

[usfan]

What consensus? The fact is that humans have believed in all sorts of unseen beings through their history.

You answered the question yourself.

The 'fact' that a consensus of humanity, for all of human history, has had a "sense' of an otherworldly, spiritual dimension, that millions have claimed experience with.

This makes the dogmatic assertion, 'There is no God!', into a ludicrous denial of the human experience.

AKA, folly.

It is denial of the overwhelming evidence of a 'spiritual' dimension, based only on personal inexperience and ignorance.

As a personal belief, or statement of personal experience, it would be rational. But as a dogmatic description of Reality, replete with derogatory insults toward those who claim to have experience with this realm, it moves into the theater of the absurd.. elevating ignorance and personal sensory perception as the Final Authority for all knowledge in the universe.

 

[ratiocinator]

The 'fact' that a consensus of humanity, for all of human history, has had a "sense' of an otherworldly, spiritual dimension, that millions have claimed experience with.

The fact actually is that humans have believed in all sorts of unseen agents, from tree spirits to astrology, to vampires and fairies, to all sorts of different gods (literally thousands of them), most of which even most theists would dismiss.

Either this is a "sense" of something or an indication of a human tendency to attribute intention where there is none (hyperactive agent detection) and to make up stories. The former has no supporting evidence, while the latter does.

This makes the dogmatic assertion, 'There is no God!', into a ludicrous denial of the human experience.

I still don't recognise the dogmatic assertion as something atheists do - it's more associated with theists in my experience.

Why do you pick "God", and not some gods or any of the other magical concepts humans have believed in? Apart from it being your favourite, that is.

It is denial of the overwhelming evidence of a 'spiritual' dimension, based only on personal inexperience and ignorance.

There is no "overwhelming evidence" for a spiritual dimension - just evidence that humans have told all sorts of (often incompatible) stories to each other based on their interpretations of subjective experiences.

 

[usfan]

The fact actually is that humans have believed in all sorts of unseen agents, from tree spirits to astrology, to vampires and fairies, to all sorts of different gods (literally thousands of them), most of which even most theists would dismiss.

Either this is a "sense" of something or an indication of a human tendency to attribute intention where there is none (hyperactive agent detection) and to make up stories. The former has no supporting evidence, while the latter does.

It is the general perception, not the specific interpretation, that makes up the human consensus for a 'sense', of a spiritual realm.

See the poem, 'The Blind Men and The Elephant', for an example of this phenomenon.

THE BLIND MEN AND THE ELEPHANT, revisited

 

[ratiocinator]

It is the general perception, not the specific interpretation, that makes up the human consensus for a 'sense', of a spiritual realm.

Except that we know that people claim to be able to sense things they can't (see all the debunking of the paranormal) and we know that they tend to ascribe intention where none exists, and we know that they make up stories and misinterpret and misremember. We know, for example, there is nothing in horoscopes, yet many people still believe in them.

Other than wishful thinking, I see no reason to take humanity's collective superstitions at all seriously. It certainly isn't (by itself) evidence of them sensing anything real and external to their minds.

And it's yet another leap of faith / wishful thinking to suggest it might be evidence for some god or other.

 

[ArtieE]

Nothing you can say will ever explain that the Trinity is real or that Jesus is God, there is no proof.

"I and the Father are one." John 10:30 I and the Father are one."

 

[ArtieE]

My will is free because I choose to pay second violin to what I believe instead of following my lower material nature.

Then show us you have free will and choose to follow your lower material nature for a day.

My will is free because I choose to be bound by reason rather than acting upon my emotions.

Then choose to act upon your emotions and put aside reason for a while.

 

[Earthtank]

As long as Atheist believe we are simply here by chance and that "We are all just complicated arrangements of atoms and subatomic particles" nothing they say can ever be taken serious or given any credence.

 

[ratiocinator]

As long as Atheist believe we are simply here by chance and that "We are all just complicated arrangements of atoms and subatomic particles" nothing they say can ever be taken serious or given any credence.

Because.....?

How about just one good reason to take any of the thousands of gods that humanity has, or does, believe in, seriously? There must be one, surely?

 

[ArtieE]

The folly of materialistic atheism is in dogmatically declaring Absolute Knowledge, based on limited awareness of the vastness of the universe through highly restricted human sensory organs.

If we cannot see, touch, hear, or smell, another dimension, it cannot exist.

Provide some quotes backing up your statements.

 

[ArtieE]

As long as Atheist believe we are simply here by chance and that "We are all just complicated arrangements of atoms and subatomic particles" nothing they say can ever be taken serious or given any credence.

Some theist creation theories.
The Weirdest Creation Myths from Around the World

 

[Earthtank]

Some theist creation theories.
The Weirdest Creation Myths from Around the World

Not sure how or why this is relevant to me but, cool story bro

 

[Earthtank]

Because.....?

How about just one good reason to take any of the thousands of gods that humanity has, or does, believe in, seriously? There must be one, surely?

I never said you had to take god or any gods serious. Not sure how you are getting that conclusion from my statement.

 

[ArtieE]

You answered the question yourself.

The 'fact' that a consensus of humanity, for all of human history, has had a "sense' of an otherworldly, spiritual dimension, that millions have claimed experience with.

Since you seem to know so much about this "otherworldly, spIritual dimension" describe to us in detail what's going on there.

 

[ratiocinator]

I never said you had to take god or any gods serious.

Just wondering if you had any good reason to think we aren't "just complicated arrangements of atoms and subatomic particles" - and since you mentioned atheists, I assume it has something to do with a god (or gods) in your mind...

 

[ArtieE]

Not sure how or why this is relevant to me but, cool story bro

You said "As long as Atheist believe we are simply here by chance and that "We are all just complicated arrangements of atoms and subatomic particles" nothing they say can ever be taken serious or given any credence." I just thought I'd post some theist beliefs not to be taken seriously or given any credence.

 

[Earthtank]

You said "As long as Atheist believe we are simply here by chance and that "We are all just complicated arrangements of atoms and subatomic particles" nothing they say can ever be taken serious or given any credence." I just thought I'd post some theist beliefs not to be taken seriously or given any credence.

The subject of this thread is atheists, not theists. Learn to read, comprehend and focus on the subject at hand instead of trying to deflect

 

[Earthtank]

Just wondering if you had any good reason to think we aren't "just complicated arrangements of atoms and subatomic particles" - and since you mentioned atheists, I assume it has something to do with a god (or gods) in your mind...

Nope, no god or gods are on my mind. The title of this thread is about Atheists so, i replied based off the title of the thread.

 

[ratiocinator]

Nope, no god or gods are on my mind. The title of this thread is about Atheists so, i replied based off the title of the thread.

Since atheism is the lack of belief in gods, you can't actually say anything about them without reference to the belief in gods - since the lack thereof is the defining (and only common) characteristic.

Since you claimed atheists (people who have no belief in gods) think that we "are all just complicated arrangements of atoms and subatomic particles", and then claimed that "nothing they say can ever be taken serious or given any credence", one has to deduce that you think neither of these would apply to people who don't lack a belief in gods. So if gods were not on your mind, you seem to have been posting incoherent nonsense...

 

[Earthtank]

Since atheism is the lack of belief in gods, you can't actually say anything about them without reference to the belief in gods - since the lack thereof is the defining (and only common) characteristic.

Since you claimed atheists (people who have no belief in gods) think that we "are all just complicated arrangements of atoms and subatomic particles", and then claimed that "nothing they say can ever be taken serious or given any credence", one has to deduce that you think neither of these would apply to people who don't lack a belief in gods. So if gods were not on your mind, you seem to have been posting incoherent nonsense...

I am a secularist.