What is the Mormon response to Rev.Ch.#22 Vs. 18-22: "I warn everone who hears the words etc"

[Katzpur]

I am sorry to hear I am doing a bad job: I am getting lots of points and friendly's and have worked with some people to get out of Raelism, appreciate the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints at least as the best Christian Church, and I've helped with pornography addiction. On other sites people have shown interest in our Church.

Hey! I never said you were doing a bad job. Sorry you took my comments to mean that's what I thought.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Well, I'd start by reminding you that the Apostles also died pretty violent deaths. You're seeing a correlation where there is none. More to the point, here's what the text actually says:

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

First of all, the Lord was speaking to John about Revelation -- a single book in what would many, many years later, become the New Testament. He could not possibly have been speaking of the Bible since the Bible didn't even exist at that time and neither John nor anyone else would have known what He was talking about. More importantly, He was NOT telling John that He was forever done communicating to humanity. He never implied that He was never going to speak to His children again. To insist that He was saying, "I'm done!" is like trying to put a gag order on God.

Can we throw logic out the window for a minute? Lets say that its a battle between avatars and the cutest wins. My avatar is the cutest, so I win.

Agreed. But we really can't interpret it to mean the entire Bible, because there is a similar warning somewhere in Deuteronomy which, if interpreted as Richard is interpreting the passage from Revelation, would essentially negate the entire New Testament (if not every book of the Old Testament which follows Deuteronomy).

As usual you Mormons want everybody to read your stuff. I am tempted to read your stuff just to figure out how you get people to convert. It would take a lot of effort, however I am curious how conversion works. I am guessing that in the 1850s you came up with some kind of hypnotic pop up book, and that's how you got converts. They were just reading along and then suddenly....boom...something popped up; and it was like "You are in my power!" I'm right aren't I.

L. Ron Hubbard died of a stroke.

I hate those!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The bible does not contradict itself. That opinion is only held by those who misinterpret the bible, or scoff at it!

Here are 538 Biblical contradictions. I don't believe that it's a complete list:

Contradictions as listed in the SAB book

 

[Brickjectivity]

Here are 538 Biblical contradictions. I don't believe that it's a complete list:

Contradictions as listed in the SAB book

Your avatar is not the cutest.

 

[Nakosis]

As usual you Mormons want everybody to read your stuff. I am tempted to read your stuff just to figure out how you get people to convert. It would take a lot of effort, however I am curious how conversion works. I am guessing that in the 1850s you came up with some kind of hypnotic pop up book, and that's how you got converts. They were just reading along and then suddenly....boom...something popped up; and it was like "You are in my power!" I'm right aren't I.

It's a good question. So my experience with Mormons is that they are really friendly, really kind, helpful, they have answers and offer hope.

It seems, other than family and friends people are mostly disconnected from each other.

Humans have a inherent need to connect to others and you don't often run into friendly/kind people. So unless you've learned to be skeptical, we are kind of suckers for this friendly approach.

Most of my endeavors into various religions usually started out meeting some overly friendly female. Kind of funny looking back but yes I was "charmed" into a number of beliefs.

 

[Richard Dunn]

It's a good question. So my experience with Mormons is that they are really friendly, really kind, helpful, they have answers and offer hope.

It seems, other than family and friends people are mostly disconnected from each other.

Humans have a inherent need to connect to others and you don't often run into friendly/kind people. So unless you've learned to be skeptical, we are kind of suckers for this friendly approach.

Most of my endeavors into various religions usually started out meeting some overly friendly female. Kind of funny looking back but yes I was "charmed" into a number of beliefs.

It is apparent that most readers here, fail to accept the full connotations of "Divine Providence" by which the bible has come down to us. This means that God intended it to be received in it's entirety as one, complete and eternal message. To pit or site one book or verse against another, in order to disqualify any belies the concept of Divine Will. This book is perhaps one of if not the most revered in the history of humanity, and it remains today the most sought after. You can mangle it as you wish, and attempt to rewrite it to suit your purposes, but I can assure you that in the fullness of God's time, it will prevail unchanged, and dominant over all other would be additions or competitors amongst humanity.

 

[Katzpur]

Can we throw logic out the window for a minute? Lets say that its a battle between avatars and the cutest wins. My avatar is the cutest, so I win.

You've got a real cute one. I can't deny that. But hey, just look at the EYES on mine!

As usual you Mormons want everybody to read your stuff.

What "stuff" might that be?

I am tempted to read your stuff just to figure out how you get people to convert. It would take a lot of effort, however I am curious how conversion works. I am guessing that in the 1850s you came up with some kind of hypnotic pop up book, and that's how you got converts. They were just reading along and then suddenly....boom...something popped up; and it was like "You are in my power!" I'm right aren't I.

Well, not exactly. Here's how it works. You get a copy of The Book of Mormon and read it. It's just over 500 pages long, and like most scriptures is kind of boring. There are a few really good parts, though, mixed in with the boring stuff. You have to start with an open mind; otherwise reading it would be pointless. You don't just read it to say you've read it; or to see if you can pick it apart; you read it with a genuine desire to see what it has to say. Afterwards, you think about what you've read. If you find that you feel a connection to anything it said or find it to be spiritually satisfying and contains truths you would actually like to be able to believe, you pray and ask God to tell you if the book actually represents His word. If He confirms to you that it does, you look further into the Church. If not, you move on. It's really as simple as that.

 

[Nakosis]

It is apparent that most readers here, fail to accept the full connotations of "Divine Providence" by which the bible has come down to us. This means that God intended it to be received in it's entirety as one, complete and eternal message. To pit or site one book or verse against another, in order to disqualify any belies the concept of Divine Will. This book is perhaps one of if not the most revered in the history of humanity, and it remains today the most sought after. You can mangle it as you wish, and attempt to rewrite it to suit your purposes, but I can assure you that in the fullness of God's time, it will prevail unchanged, and dominant over all other would be additions or competitors amongst humanity.

Why should I trust anything you say or anything claimed about the Bible?

 

[Richard Dunn]

You've got a real cute one. I can't deny that. But hey, just look at the EYES on mine!

What "stuff" might that be?

Well, not exactly. Here's how it works. You get a copy of The Book of Mormon and read it. It's just over 500 pages long, and like most scriptures is kind of boring. There are a few really good parts, though, mixed in with the boring stuff. You have to start with an open mind; otherwise reading it would be pointless. You don't just read it to say you've read it; or to see if you can pick it apart; you read it with a genuine desire to see what it has to say. Afterwards, you think about what you've read. If you find that you feel a connection to anything it said or find it to be spiritually satisfying and contains truths you would actually like to be able to believe, you pray and ask God to tell you if the book actually represents His word. If He confirms to you that it does, you look further into the Church. If not, you move on. It's really as simple as that.

One more time. God does not forget, or make mistakes. The bible has told us all we need to know. Jesus told us that there would be false prophets after Him. Any sect that questions these things is and will always be ostracized, and regarded as anathema, by main stream Christianity. So stay in your own little world of cultist self delusion if you want, but the majority of humanity is leaving you in the dust Ben of deviant religious sub culture.

 

[Jane.Doe]

One more time. God does not forget, or make mistakes. The bible has told us all we need to know. Jesus told us that there would be false prophets after Him. Any sect that questions these things is and will always be ostracized, and regarded as anathema, by main stream Christianity. So stay in your own little world of cultist self delusion if you want, but the majority of humanity is leaving you in the dust Ben of deviant religious sub culture.

*Which* Bible? And how do you know to that that Bible is the complete and infallible one?

Richard, neither Katz or I are not idiots. Same with other people on these threads. If you want to have a reasonable conversation, you need to be reasonable and respectful yourself. Ranting and raving only bring people to the conclusion "ok...back away slowly from the crazy guy"

 

[Katzpur]

One more time. God does not forget, or make mistakes. The bible has told us all we need to know. Jesus told us that there would be false prophets after Him. Any sect that questions these things is and will always be ostracized, and regarded as anathema, by main stream Christianity. So stay in your own little world of cultist self delusion if you want, but the majority of humanity is leaving you in the dust Ben of deviant religious sub culture.

One more time: Take your head out of the sand. And speaking of cults, you're part of an 60-year-old, 85-congregation church with 8,000 members in a handful of countries and you're calling a 190-year-old, 30,000-congregation church with over 16-million members from well over 100 nations a cult and a deviant sub-culture! That's truly rich. I can't tell you how frightened we are of the dust y'all are leaving us in.

 

[Richard Dunn]

One more time: Take your head out of the sand. And speaking of cults, you're part of an 60-year-old, 85-congregation church with 8,000 members in a handful of countries and you're calling a 190-year-old, 30,000-congregation church with over 16-million members from well over 100 nations a cult and a deviant sub-culture! That's truly rich. I can't tell you how frightened we are of the dust y'all are leaving us in.

When John the Divine wrote the Book of Revelations, he was receiving visions from God. God knew how the bible would be written, and it has come down to us by His Divine Providence exactly in manner that it exists in all of it's traditional main stream Christian forms. To use one piece of scripture to negate or reduce the impact of another, or to conclude that Johns warnings would negate various gospels, or sections thereof, violates the principle of Divine Will and Providence. God does not make mistakes, He does not contradict Himself, nor does He send messengers to repeat what He has already given us in the bible. You can ignore and scoff all you wish at the things which I have told you; however, on the day of judgement you will not be able to say that you did not know that you were following false prophets, and false teachings. It is my hope that in the fullness of time and with greater maturity, you will find the courage to seek truth for it's own sake, and let the pieces fall where they may.

 

[Katzpur]

When John the Divine wrote the Book of Revelations, he was receiving visions from God. God knew how the bible would be written, and it has come down to us by His Divine Providence exactly in manner that it exists in all of it's traditional main stream Christian forms. To use one piece of scripture to negate or reduce the impact of another, or to conclude that Johns warnings would negate various gospels, or sections thereof, violates the principle of Divine Will and Providence. God does not make mistakes, He does not contradict Himself, nor does He send messengers to repeat what He has already given us in the bible. You can ignore and scoff all you wish at the things which I have told you; however, on the day of judgement you will not be able to say that you did not know that you were following false prophets, and false teachings. It is my hope that in the fullness of time and with greater maturity, you will find the courage to seek truth for it's own sake, and let the pieces fall where they may.

Thanks for your concern. Please feel free to move on to the next person now.

 

[2ndpillar]

The individuals who have ignored this warning throughout history: (Joseph Smith, Jim Jones, David Corresh, Madaline O'Hare, L. Ron Hubard), have all died violent deaths.Do Mormons think that the bible failed to tell us things necessary for our salvation?

I think the warning was with respect to the book of Revelation, and its curses. Although the additions provided by Paul, seem to have plenty of their own curses.

 

[2ndpillar]

Since the bible is the inspired word of God it comes down to us exactly how God intended it, and it is not to used to contradict itself. Jesus said many times; "Let those who have ears to hear hear, and those who have eyes to see, see!". This is a warning to be taken in context with Rev. Ch#22 Vs.18-22. God is not going to repeat himself over and over again, with an endless stream of would be prophets. If we choose to seek the comfort of false prophets, and false teachings then we will be held accountable on the day of judgement.

"Since the NT is a compilation of the "tare seed" and the "wheat seed", I am thinking the false prophet's message, the message of lawlessness (Matthew 13:39-42) is mixed in the "word of the kingdom", which is based on justice and righteousness. As for when is the "harvest", when the "tares" will be first to be gathered out and burned (Matthew 13:30), well that is "near, right at the door" (Matthew 24:33).

 

[2ndpillar]

The individuals who have ignored this warning throughout history: (Joseph Smith, Jim Jones, David Corresh, Madaline O'Hare, L. Ron Hubard), have all died violent deaths.Do Mormons think that the bible failed to tell us things necessary for our salvation?

If Lutherans are followers of Martin Luther, and his intention was to throw out Revelation, it seems you are on shaky ground.

 

[Prestor John]

His Book of Abraham is particularly galling - he claimed he could read Egyptian Hieroglyphics, and who in America could contradict him? Smith read a standard funeral text and claimed to have found a book about Abraham.

Only fragments of the original scrolls exist today.

What makes you believe that the scroll containing the standard funerary text was the same one that Joseph Smith claimed to receive revelation from?

How about you actually read the Book of Abraham and see if it's contents stand under scrutiny?

His second falsehood that galls me is his claim that the lost tribes of Israel arrived in North America.

Joseph Smith never made this claim.

 

[PruePhillip]

Joseph Smith never made this claim.

So tell me about these Nephites.

 

[PruePhillip]

Only fragments of the original scrolls exist today.
What makes you believe that the scroll containing the standard funerary text was the same one that Joseph Smith claimed to receive revelation from?
How about you actually read the Book of Abraham and see if it's contents stand under scrutiny?
.

I am fine with the story of the funerary texts. So too are most people who looked into Smith's
magical ability to read Egyptian.
There is no third testament. Jesus didn't go back to the priests, rites and temple.

 

[Katzpur]

So tell me about these Nephites.

The Nephites were not part of any "Lost Tribe." In about 600 B.C. a couple of dozen people from two separate families (plus one single man from another family) crossed the ocean, later arriving somewhere on the east coast of what is now either North or South America, intermarrying with the people who were already there when they arrived, and eventually growing into a sizable nation. The exist locations of where the events in the book took place are not known. These people were definite not "lost," so you can cross that myth off your list.

What is it with you and Mormonism anyway? You're not this contentious with everybody else? Have we done something to offend you -- other than believe differently than you do?