Was Revelation Written About The Distant Future?

[sooda]

Some secular "interpretations" feel quite desperate.
Such theories as this are employed to EXPLAIN AWAY embarrassing things.
The Jews are adept at this when it comes to Jesus - they have no choice.

Zech 12 The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who
forms the human spirit within a person, declares: “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends
all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. On that day, when
all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all
the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. On that day I will strike every horse with panic
and its rider with madness,” declares the Lord. “I will keep a watchful eye over Judah, but I will blind all
the horses of the nations. Then the clans of Judah will say in their hearts, ‘The people of Jerusalem
are strong, because the Lord Almighty is their God.’
“On that day I will make the clans of Judah like a firepot in a woodpile, like a flaming torch among sheaves.
They will consume all the surrounding peoples right and left, but Jerusalem will remain intact in her place.
“The Lord will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honor of the house of David and of Jerusalem’s
inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah. On that day the Lord will shield those who live in
Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like
the angel of the Lord going before them. On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack
Jerusalem.
“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication.
They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child,
and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be as
great as the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo...

This isn't Cyrus.
"THEY WILL LOOK ON ME, THE ONE THEY HAVE PIERCED"
This is the same one whom came to the Jews originally as the lowly man who rode upon the colt.

Zecharia 14 is about the troops under Titus.. Soldiers from foreign countries within the Roman Empire fought with the Romans against Israel.. mostly Syrians and Egyptians.

 

[sooda]

The kings (plural) who committed adultery with the church is a fairly easy one to identify.
Until about the 1800's the Pope crowned Europe's kings and queens. A few centuries
before the Pope actually had the power to determine who would sit on thrones. This is
an astonishing turn of affairs - and wouldn't have been recognized by the Apostolic
Church as even being possible.

He's talking about the first century not hundreds or thousands of years in future.

 

[sooda]

Basically you think the Bible is an ancient newspaper, meant for the people of the day to keep up with current news. Despite the knowledge of ancient people passed on their history verbally for thousands of years before the written word ever existed. Yet all the sudden they changed their minds, made a newspaper and called it a day? You dont see anything suspect about that line of thought?

No I don't think Revelation is a newspaper. It says very clearly who the letter was written to and when these things would come to pass.

 

[PruePhillip]

He's talking about the first century not hundreds or thousands of years in future.

First century! Even apostates to the Apostolic Church mostly continued gathering in homes
and sending out itinerant preachers. And even the apostates suffered Roman persecution.
The fabulous wealth and power of a "Christian" church didn't happen until the Middle Ages.
The description of this church "no more the candle, no more the voice of the bride and bride
groom" describes the church from about the 5th Century. "... but a cage of hateful and unclean
birds" describes the 20th and 21st centuries.

 

[sooda]

First century! Even apostates to the Apostolic Church mostly continued gathering in homes
and sending out itinerant preachers. And even the apostates suffered Roman persecution.
The fabulous wealth and power of a "Christian" church didn't happen until the Middle Ages.
The description of this church "no more the candle, no more the voice of the bride and bride
groom" describes the church from about the 5th Century. "... but a cage of hateful and unclean
birds" describes the 20th and 21st centuries.

 

[JJ50]

Revelation can be interpreted in so many ways, to suit the mindset of more extreme believers. Its inclusion in the Bible, which nearly didn't happen, doesn't do it any favours.

 

[sooda]

Revelation can be interpreted in so many ways, to suit the mindset of more extreme believers. Its inclusion in the Bible, which nearly didn't happen, doesn't do it any favours.

Well, its important to stick with the first couple of verses that say it will happen soon within a generation (40 years)...

Its highly symbolic and while the people of the first century would have understood the symbolism in their time, its harder for us. It helps to study it contemporaneously in its historical setting.

Tim Lahaye, Hal Lindsey have profited from futuristic interpretations like the US being Babylon and all sort of other tommyrot, but they certainly confuse understanding it.

 

[PruePhillip]

Revelation can be interpreted in so many ways, to suit the mindset of more extreme believers. Its inclusion in the Bible, which nearly didn't happen, doesn't do it any favours.

If you believe in the book, then why not include it seeing
how it is a Message from Jesus to the churches. And
if you will, it could refer to all the circulating Gospel
literature with the words "whoever adds to this book"
--- meaning the New Testament as it was then, not just
the Revelations.
Again, the powerful and worldly Christian dominion it
describes was a millennium away. I suspect it speaks
of Communism too - the red dragon who fights the
white dragon of false religion. Conjecture for sure, but
certainly not a book about current Rome.

 

[JJ50]

If you believe in the book, then why not include it seeing
how it is a Message from Jesus to the churches. And
if you will, it could refer to all the circulating Gospel
literature with the words "whoever adds to this book"
--- meaning the New Testament as it was then, not just
the Revelations.
Again, the powerful and worldly Christian dominion it
describes was a millennium away. I suspect it speaks
of Communism too - the red dragon who fights the
white dragon of false religion. Conjecture for sure, but
certainly not a book about current Rome.

People interpret that crazy book to suit their POV on matters of faith.

 

[PruePhillip]

People interpret that crazy book to suit their POV on matters of faith.

True, but the facts are
1 - the predictions weren't fulfilled in the First Century
2 - the church (fall of the white dragon) couldn't have described the church of the First Century.

 

[JJ50]

True, but the facts are
1 - the predictions weren't fulfilled in the First Century
2 - the church (fall of the white dragon) couldn't have described the church of the First Century.

They didn't describe anything, imo.

 

[PruePhillip]

They didn't describe anything, imo.

The description of false religion, symbolized by the white dragon, is relevant.
Christianity in the First Century was a minor affair. People reading Revelation
at that time would find it hard to believe that Christianity would crown kings
and live sumptuously - drowning in wealth, power and glory. Or that their
own religion would return to OT and pagan roots.
I take the reference to the 'whore who sits on seven hills' to a pointed
reference to Roman Catholicism - 'seven hills' simply meant 'Rome.'
And its fall. A few centuries back few could imagine the sudden collapse
of the church. Rev' says 'in one day.' The reference to 'cage of hateful
birds' I take to be the politicization of the church, ie Marxist theology,
support for fashionable issues which were once against church doctrine
ie gay marriage, easy divorce etc...

 

[JJ50]

The description of false religion, symbolized by the white dragon, is relevant.
Christianity in the First Century was a minor affair. People reading Revelation
at that time would find it hard to believe that Christianity would crown kings
and live sumptuously - drowning in wealth, power and glory. Or that their
own religion would return to OT and pagan roots.
I take the reference to the 'whore who sits on seven hills' to a pointed
reference to Roman Catholicism - 'seven hills' simply meant 'Rome.'
And its fall. A few centuries back few could imagine the sudden collapse
of the church. Rev' says 'in one day.' The reference to 'cage of hateful
birds' I take to be the politicization of the church, ie Marxist theology,
support for fashionable issues which were once against church doctrine
ie gay marriage, easy divorce etc...

That is your interpretation of that book.

 

[PruePhillip]

That is your interpretation of that book.

It certainly is. The strange thing is - it's a book not meant to be really understood.
I suppose, like Zechariah and Daniel, its to cause us to wonder.
What in the bible is meant to be understood, and is presented simply, clearly and
plainly, is the Gospel. I am not comfortable with people who call themselves
Christian going on and on about Revelation. I take it they love mystery more than
clear Truth.

 

[sooda]

The description of false religion, symbolized by the white dragon, is relevant.
Christianity in the First Century was a minor affair. People reading Revelation
at that time would find it hard to believe that Christianity would crown kings
and live sumptuously - drowning in wealth, power and glory. Or that their
own religion would return to OT and pagan roots.
I take the reference to the 'whore who sits on seven hills' to a pointed
reference to Roman Catholicism - 'seven hills' simply meant 'Rome.'
And its fall. A few centuries back few could imagine the sudden collapse
of the church. Rev' says 'in one day.' The reference to 'cage of hateful
birds' I take to be the politicization of the church, ie Marxist theology,
support for fashionable issues which were once against church doctrine
ie gay marriage, easy divorce etc...

Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

Don't change Revelation even if you don't understand ALL the symbolism of the first century.

 

[JJ50]

Well, its important to stick with the first couple of verses that say it will happen soon within a generation (40 years)...

Its highly symbolic and while the people of the first century would have understood the symbolism in their time, its harder for us. It helps to study it contemporaneously in its historical setting.

Tim Lahaye, Hal Lindsey have profited from futuristic interpretations like the US being Babylon and all sort of other tommyrot, but they certainly confuse understanding it.

You see it that way, I don't.

 

[sooda]

You see it that way, I don't.

Stick with the introduction to the Revelation letter. It you ignore the first few verses, you will get it all wrong trying to invent new meanings.

 

[sooda]

It certainly is. The strange thing is - it's a book not meant to be really understood.
I suppose, like Zechariah and Daniel, its to cause us to wonder.
What in the bible is meant to be understood, and is presented simply, clearly and
plainly, is the Gospel. I am not comfortable with people who call themselves
Christian going on and on about Revelation. I take it they love mystery more than
clear Truth.

Daniel was written by a bunch of Jews during the Maccabean Revolt and the Abomination of desolation.. 165 BC.

 

[JJ50]

Stick with the introduction to the Revelation letter.

Which I regard as silly nonsense.

 

[sooda]

Which I regard as silly nonsense.

Why is that?