Putting god first!

[stvdv]

Sorry I am not understanding you?

Obviously I was not clear enough, I hope this clarifies it. I put the quotes in the spoiler to keep it clean here
The point was: Is God responsible for the mess humans make ... being God, He is the One who created us this way? Correct?

You said "God is to blame if it exists and created human nature."
I said "I agree" + I concluded, so "You are to blame if you exist and created your children ... do you agree?"
You did not answer my question BUT said "Our children are in their 40s, we are extremely proud of them, they have turned out well."

IF your children did not make 1 mistake my question did not apply to you. BUT chances are they did make 1 stupid mistake
So the answer should be simple and somewhere along the lines of: "Yes, I created my children, so I am responsible for their mistakes"
At least I take full responsibility for the "things that I create" ... so I admit "my fault" ... I don't blame "God" for mistakes I make

Spoiler: Some thoughts that came up out of this:

God created humans, so God is responsible for mistakes humans make. Parents create children, so parents are responsible for mistakes their children make
So as humans can also create they seem to be a little "God" themselves. Hence they should take a little responsibility for their own creations
We have the Law, AND don't get away with "God created me ... put God on the stand" ergo "it seems we are supposed to take responsible for our mistakes"

Bible even says "God is our Father .. we are His children" ... indeed means we are "little Gods"
Similar thoughts I also came across in India ... so there might be some truth in it ... little maybe

Spoiler: Our conversation about this

It sickens me that some people consider their version of a god more important than their family, even their children

I do not judge people on this, for I do not know their situation. Some families can be very sick and hurtful.

The worst person in the world is better than the Biblical god, if the deeds attributed to it have any truth.

Indeed "IF"

In the Middle Ages (1500) people were quite barbaric, so in the years of Muhammad (0700) even more barbaric is my guess.
Imagine how barbaric they were in the time of Jesus (0000).

So when the Bible talks about people dying, I can imagine they attributed it to God, whereas in reality it was just a natural disaster

So the stories of some barbaric people say nothing to me about this hypothetical God to whom they attribute all their troubles
Even now many people have this tendency to blame others for their own faults. In those years they blamed it on God.

God is to blame if it exists and created human nature.

It sickens me that some people consider their version of a god more important than their family, even their children

I do not judge people on this, for I do not know their situation. Some families can be very sick and hurtful.

The worst person in the world is better than the Biblical god, if the deeds attributed to it have any truth.

Indeed "IF"

In the Middle Ages (1500) people were quite barbaric, so in the years of Muhammad (0700) even more barbaric is my guess.
Imagine how barbaric they were in the time of Jesus (0000).

So when the Bible talks about people dying, I can imagine they attributed it to God, whereas in reality it was just a natural disaster

So the stories of some barbaric people say nothing to me about this hypothetical God to whom they attribute all their troubles
Even now many people have this tendency to blame others for their own faults. In those years they blamed it on God.

God is to blame if it exists and created human nature.

I agree.

I don't know if you have children, but every mistake they make ... you are the one to be blamed, that's what you try to say here, aren't you?

Our children are in their 40s, we are extremely proud of them, they have turned out well.

You do blame God (if "it" exists as you say)
But you seem to "measure with two sizes" as you conveniently avoid to answer my question about exactly the same issue "focus on you this time"

Sorry I am not understanding you?

 

[ChristineM]

That is the answer: There is no answer. It's all a guess.

So despite saying you can answer, the truth is, you cant

 

[stvdv]

So despite saying you can answer, the truth is, you cant

That is the answer: There is no answer. It's all a guess.

... Right answer

 

[Road Warrior]

So despite saying you can answer, the truth is, you cant

No one can. Are you saying someone can tell you what lies beyond?

 

[ChristineM]

No one can. Are you saying someone can tell you what lies beyond?

Nope but you said you could and then answered with dont know

Oh, and i think we have a different interpretations of beyond

 

[JJ50]

stvdv, in response to your post, of course I would blame myself if my children had turned out bad. I made mistakes as most parents do, I can't deny that, but fortunately our children have made us proud. The ones who have children are doing a good job raising them.

 

[Road Warrior]

Nope but you said you could and then answered with dont know

Oh, and i think we have a different interpretations of beyond

Please quote me where I claimed I could know what lay beyond the physical universe. I'm curious.

That is the answer: There is no answer. It's all a guess.

 

[ChristineM]

Please quote me where I claimed I could know what lay beyond the physical universe. I'm curious.

My question was why did a caring god create childhood leukemia?


Your reply and i quote post #178 "That is a common question of atheists. One that Biblical God people often can answer.

I can : ..."

That is the statement i refer to, no need to move the goalposts by adding your own riders after the fact

 

[stvdv]

My question was why did a caring god create childhood leukemia?

Your reply and i quote post #178 "That is a common question of atheists. One that Biblical God people often can answer.

I can : ..."

That is the statement i refer to, no need to move the goalposts by adding your own riders after the fact

He said "I can answer" ... and he did. He did not claim "I can answer correctly"

He even said: "How can we know what is beyond? Not possible at this time"

I said something similar. And that is all we can do (IMHO because it is faith/belief not fact)
So when asking such a question, expecting to get facts, means you are not realistic
But I get the drift ... quite a few believers claim their belief is a fact ... so this is Newtons Law in action

 

[ChristineM]

He said "I can answer" ... and he did. He did not claim "I can answer correctly"

He even said: "How can we know what is beyond? Not possible at this time"

I said something similar. And that is all we can do (IMHO because it is faith/belief not fact)
So when asking such a question, expecting to get facts, means you are not realistic
But I get the drift ... quite a few believers claim their belief is a fact ... so this is Newtons Law in action

Please read his post #178 in which he categorically stated "i can" answer my question then goes into a lot of waffle that does not answer the question.

 

[Road Warrior]

My question was why did a caring god create childhood leukemia?


Your reply and i quote post #178 "That is a common question of atheists. One that Biblical God people often can answer.

I can : ..."

That is the statement i refer to, no need to move the goalposts by adding your own riders after the fact

An excellent job of cherry-picking quotes out of context. The question I’m wondering about is are you doing it to be dishonest or out of ignorance? You asked several questions of which I tried to answer all. You appear to be misapplying my answers.

The conversation in full and in context:

And how does that answer the question?

Life is life us temporary is valid but irrelevant to the question
Eternal is unknown whether it even exists
One can only be oneself, how can you be someone/something else?
No the raindrop does not continue to exist, fluid dynamics merges it with the surrounding water.
What is your context for beyond?

That is a common question of atheists. One that Biblical God people often can answer.

I can: Life is temporary. Eternal existence is, well you know, eternal. Will we be as ourselves? Doubtful. Consider a raindrop in the ocean. Does it still exist? Yes. Does it become something greater? Yes. Is this a matter of faith? Yes. How can we know what is beyond? Not possible at this time. Let's keep looking.

BTW, still disagreed with the raindrop; what made it a raindrop still exists. The fact it merges with the ocean just means the raindrop becomes joined with something greater than its original form.

 

[ChristineM]

An excellent job of cherry-picking quotes out of context. The question I’m wondering about is are you doing it to be dishonest or out of ignorance? You asked several questions of which I tried to answer all. You appear to be misapplying my answers.

The conversation in full and in context:
BTW, still disagreed with the raindrop; what made it a raindrop still exists. The fact it merges with the ocean just means the raindrop becomes joined with something greater than its original form.

You made the statement, you isolated the the statement with ':' and then you went on to describe how you have no idea.
Do you want me to quote it word for word?
I said

My question was why did a caring god create childhood leukemia?
The suffering question came after but in relation to my original question
And opinion is not an answer to the question it is simply an acceptance in your mind.​

You said

That is a common question of atheists. One that Biblical God people often can answer.
I can: Life is temporary. Eternal existence is, well you know, eternal. Will we be as ourselves? Doubtful. Consider a raindrop in the ocean. Does it still exist? Yes. Does it become something greater? Yes. Is this a matter of faith? Yes. How can we know what is beyond? Not possible at this time. Let's keep looking.​

Own your own statement and dont try forcing your failure on me

The moment the raindrop begins to disperse it looses its status of raindrop... Read the definition.

 

[Road Warrior]

You made the statement, you isolated the the statement with ':' and then you went on to describe how you have no idea.
Do you want me to quote it word for word?
I said

My question was why did a caring god create childhood leukemia?
The suffering question came after but in relation to my original question
And opinion is not an answer to the question it is simply an acceptance in your mind.​

You said

That is a common question of atheists. One that Biblical God people often can answer.
I can: Life is temporary. Eternal existence is, well you know, eternal. Will we be as ourselves? Doubtful. Consider a raindrop in the ocean. Does it still exist? Yes. Does it become something greater? Yes. Is this a matter of faith? Yes. How can we know what is beyond? Not possible at this time. Let's keep looking.​

Own your own statement and dont try forcing your failure on me

The moment the raindrop begins to disperse it looses its status of raindrop... Read the definition.

You really don’t know what a separate paragraph means when answering multiple questions? Have you compared the “I can” statement to your “What is your context for beyond?” Question? No matter if you do or do not. Obviously you have some other agenda in mind but I do not understand what it is. Do you care to explain or will you continue to play coy?

 

[ChristineM]

You really don’t know what a separate paragraph means when answering multiple questions? Have you compared the “I can” statement to your “What is your context for beyond?” Question? No matter if you do or do not. Obviously you have some other agenda in mind but I do not understand what it is. Do you care to explain or will you continue to play coy?

You claimed you knew the answer to my question, then on the SAME PARAGRAPH you PROVED that you have no idea

The beyond question came after.

 

[Road Warrior]

You claimed you knew the answer to my question, then on the SAME PARAGRAPH you PROVED that you have no idea

The beyond question came after.

Awesome. Good for you. I really have no idea why you are parsing this but if I give you a gold star will you feel better about yourself?

 

[ChristineM]

Awesome. Good for you. I really have no idea why you are parsing this but if I give you a gold star will you feel better about yourself?

Because you made a statement that you could answer my question and failed. And although it is absolutely clear you failed you insist on parsing your failure and claiming i am wrong because you failed.

I highlighted it as i did in mimicry of your own colourful editing of my posting

 

[Road Warrior]

Because you made a statement that you could answer my question and failed. And although it is absolutely clear you failed you insist on parsing your failure and claiming i am wrong because you failed.

I highlighted it as i did in mimicry of your own colourful editing of my posting

Thanks for your opinion, but I continue to disagree.

 

[stvdv]

Please read his post #178 in which he categorically stated "i can" answer my question then goes into a lot of waffle that does not answer the question.

Exactly ... that is the answer ... talking about the beyond is just "waffle" because NOBODY knows
Hence the wise remain silent, even don't ask this kind of questions, knowing mind can't answer

 

[Trailblazer]

It sickens me that some people consider their version of a god more important than their family, even their children. If a god does exist, it shouldn't be so far up its one rear end that it expects to come first and be worshipped. No one or thing is worthy of worship, especially not the Biblical god if the things stated in that book about it are true.

Putting God first is simply a sentiment of knowing that God is more important than self and the world, not because God needs to be important to us, as God does not need anything from us. It is because putting God before our selfish desires is good for us that God wants us to put Him first.

If more believers really put God first, this world would be transformed into a paradise, but most believers put their self and the world before God, which is why this world is such a mess.

Putting God first does not mean that we take time away from family and friends, it means we view all of God’s Creation as more important than our own selfish desires. It does not take time to put God first, it is simply an attitude we carry around but it is also expressed in good deeds.

Putting God first does not mean relate to God because we cannot have a direct relationship with God since God is inaccessible.

“How wondrous is the unity of the Living, the Ever-Abiding God—a unity which is exalted above all limitations, that transcendeth the comprehension of all created things! He hath, from everlasting, dwelt in His inaccessible habitation of holiness and glory, and will unto everlasting continue to be enthroned upon the heights of His independent sovereignty and grandeur. How lofty hath been His incorruptible Essence, how completely independent of the knowledge of all created things, and how immensely exalted will it remain above the praise of all the inhabitants of the heavens and the earth!”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 261-262

In my religion, we are taught that family must be tended to before the any involvement with the religion. So if there is a conflict, family comes first. As I recall, that is different from Christianity, as Jesus taught that we should love God more than anything else, including our family.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think worship is actually the highest form of love and the Creator God who sustains our lives down to each breath and heartbeat is worthy of such love and gratefulness. I find putting God first means being able to love others; family and friends much better. I can simply love and enjoy them without thinking they must meet my expectations, satisfy or fulfill me because God's love does that.

God’s love is elusive to me, and that is not because I am not a Christian, because other Baha’is do not feel the way I do at all.

I will continue to struggle with this…. It’s a journey.

If you have never read this book, I suggest you read it, as I think you will understand it.

Heaven and Hell