Self-renunciation, learning to love, trust and follow a master teacher

[Jim]

Note: I‘m not trying to reconcile belief systems. I’m not trying to find common ground between them. I’m opposed to that.

I think that in all the religions that have been associated with thriving civilizations, there is a story that the best life a person can live, for their own benefit and for the benefit of all people and of society, is in self-renunciation and learning to love, trust and follow a master teacher. Is there anyone else here who sees that?

 

[The Reverend Bob]

Why would we need a teacher?

 

[Jim]

Why would we need a teacher?

Are you disagreeing with what I said? Are you denying that all those religions tell that story?

 

[The Reverend Bob]

Are you disagreeing with what I said? Are you denying that all those religions tell that story?

Taoism does. And some aspects of Christianity believe that a person needs no other instructor but that of the Holy Spirit, that said master teachers came and went and now is the age of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Audie]

Note: I‘m not trying to reconcile belief systems. I’m not trying to find common ground between them. I’m opposed to that.

I think that in all the religions that have been associated with thriving civilizations, there is a story that the best life a person can live, for their own benefit and for the benefit of all people and of society, is in self-renunciation and learning to love, trust and follow a master teacher. Is there anyone else here who sees that?

I see that several followed Mao. The quest for
a Master is a fool's game.

I am not about to renunciationalize myself in any case.

 

[Jim]

Taoism does. And some aspects of Christianity believe that a person needs no other instructor but that of the Holy Spirit, that said master teachers came and went and now is the age of the Holy Spirit.

Okay, I see your point then. I think that the need for a master teacher is a part of human nature and will always be a part of our relationship with God. The reason I think that is because I think that’s what my master teacher says. But I could be wrong. I’ve been wrong before. Anyway, the relationship with a master teacher can be indirect, but I think there have to be some people who are in a direct personal relationship with the master teacher.

 

[sayak83]

Note: I‘m not trying to reconcile belief systems. I’m not trying to find common ground between them. I’m opposed to that.

I think that in all the religions that have been associated with thriving civilizations, there is a story that the best life a person can live, for their own benefit and for the benefit of all people and of society, is in self-renunciation and learning to love, trust and follow a master teacher. Is there anyone else here who sees that?

The master teacher part is not considered necessary in Hinduism.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

I think that the need for a master teacher is a part of human nature

I think it is a very bad part of human nature.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

The reason I think that is because I think that’s what my master teacher says.

This is exactly why I think it is a very bad part of human nature.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

A good master/teacher would teach you to renounce them instead of yourself.

 

[Jim]

The master teacher part is not considered necessary in Hinduism.

I know that. Are you disagreeing with what I said? Are you denying that there is any story, anywhere in Hinduism, like the one I described?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Taoism does. And some aspects of Christianity believe that a person needs no other instructor but that of the Holy Spirit, that said master teachers came and went and now is the age of the Holy Spirit.

If one practices both those Faiths, can they not be traced back to a founder, even if one practices them not acknowledging the founder?

Example with Taoism

"Laozi, also rendered as Lao Tzu and Lao-Tze, was an ancient Chinese philosopher and writer. He is the reputed author of the Tao Te Ching, the founder of philosophical Taoism, and a deity in religious Taoism and traditional Chinese religions."

Thus there was reportably a teacher that founded this school of thought.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

A good master/teacher would teach you to renounce them instead of yourself.

How can I judge my thoughts are sound? How would I learn 2 + 2 = 4 and the many ways to calculate that sum?

Regards Tony

 

[Jim]

If one practices both those Faiths, can they not be traced back to a founder, even if one practices them not acknowledging the founder?

Example with Taoism

"Laozi, also rendered as Lao Tzu and Lao-Tze, was an ancient Chinese philosopher and writer. He is the reputed author of the Tao Te Ching, the founder of philosophical Taoism, and a deity in religious Taoism and traditional Chinese religions."

Thus there was a teacher that founded this school of thought.

Regards Tony

Actually I thought that Taoism might be an exception to what I’m saying. What I’m saying is more than just saying that there’s a founder. In the story I’m describing, there is a person for people to learn to love, trust and follow. Lao-Tzu might not fit that description.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

If one practices both those Faiths, can they not be traced back to a founder, even if one practices them not acknowledging the founder?

Example with Taoism

"Laozi, also rendered as Lao Tzu and Lao-Tze, was an ancient Chinese philosopher and writer. He is the reputed author of the Tao Te Ching, the founder of philosophical Taoism, and a deity in religious Taoism and traditional Chinese religions."

Thus there was a teacher that founded this school of thought.

Regards Tony

Lao Tzu is a founder of a school of philosophical Taoism not the founder of Taoism and I am more of a Yang Chu kinda guy and there is nothing within the Tao te Ching that cannot be taught by simple observation and natural instinct. The water teaches more about the Tao than a simple book if you know how to observe it

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Actually I thought that Taoism might be an exception to what I’m saying. What I’m saying is more than just saying that there’s a founder. In the story I’m describing, there is a person for people to learn to love, trust and follow. Lao-Tzu might not fit that description.

That is very true. Frame of reference always blinds.

Regards Tony

 

[The Reverend Bob]

How can I judge my thoughts are sound? How would I learn 2 + 2 = 4 and the many ways to calculate that sum?

Regards Tony

You could simply learn that 2+2=4 through reason and observation

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Lao Tzu is a founder of a school of philosophical Taoism not the founder of Taoism and I am more of a Yang Chu kinda guy and there is nothing within the Tao te Ching that cannot be taught by simple observation and natural instinct. The water teaches more about the Tao than a simple book if you know how to observe it

I see Nature is a great teacher. As such I see great merit in many ancient cultures and their love and connection with creation.

Regards Tony

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Sounds to me like we're talking about Discipleship when we mention "Masters". Discipleship is a view that works very well in people's minds, but leads to a lot of bad things in reality. It's probably why less Christian churches focus on Discipleship now.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You could simply learn that 2+2=4 through reason and observation

Science would show us if that is likely, that would be interesting. But must go.

Regards Tony