Audie
Veteran Member
I think it is not.
It does make a outsider think it is all
pretty nonsensical when there is no
basis for agreement on such basic things.
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Self-renunciation, learning to love, trust and follow a master teacher
- Thread starter Jim
- Start date
It does make a outsider think it is all
pretty nonsensical when there is no
basis for agreement on such basic things.
Its not a basic thing. There can certainly be disagreement regarding whether one needs a lifelong spiritual teacher a guide or not in one's praxis of Hinduism.
Usually, monastic orders of Hinduism stress the need of a guru while householder orders usually do not.
Audie
Veteran Member
Belief in Brahman, Atman, Karma, Dharma and a cyclic structure of time and creation.
These are quite basic and widely shared.
The basis of the problem is that "Hinduism" is not one religion. It's a name that the Europeans gave to various Indian religions. At best, it's an umbrella term. Indigenous religions don't tend to have names for themselves because they're so interwoven into daily life and culture that there's no need to treat religion as a separate sphere of activity. Treating religion in such a way is a legacy of Christianity and is foreign to more traditional ways of life.
Vaishnavism, Saivism, Shaktism and all the myriad sects of village deities and so on are really all different religions (and not "denominations"), that fit into the web of Indian culture. It's similar to ancient Greco-Roman religion, which also was not one thing, but a myriad of different cults (in the original sense of the word) for various deities. That explains why Hindus are all over the place in their beliefs. It's much the same with Neopaganism, which is also an umbrella term for a myriad of different religions.
Jim
Nets of Wonder
I can’t find anything in Wikipedia or anywhere else, about any religion, past or present, saying that there is or was no such story anywhere in it as the one I described in the OP. Can you link to an example?
Jim
Nets of Wonder
I’m guessing that you’re not inviting me to try to explain it. Are you?
Jim
Nets of Wonder
I wasn’t searching for one. Some people do, but I don’t really know much about their motivations. I’ll just tell you my own story. Maybe other people will tell you theirs, if you would like them to.
I went to Baha’i children’s classes for a few years in my early childhood. My parents were divorced and I was living with my mother. Then starting in middle school I lived with my father who despised all religions. I grew up thinking he was an atheist but later I found out that he did believe in something he called “God.” We all went to his wife’s church where I went to confirmation classes. My only memories of that are from the camps, and one discussion about whether or not Jesus was the promised Messiah. Can you guess what we all decided?
During high school I saw myself at one time or another as an atheist, objectivist, Unitarian, agnostic, and born-again Christian, but all during that time I looked up to Bahá’u’lláh because of the wisdom I saw in His writings. I admired what I saw Baha’is doing and I wanted to support it, but I didn’t join because I was opposed to all organized religion, and as much as I looked up to Bahá’u’lláh, I couldn’t honestly say that I accepted His claims.
After I flunked out of Purdue University in my fourth year in electrical engineering, after a few months of technical school and repairing radios at Magnavox, and after joining the Air Force to avoid being drafted into the Army, one day, reading something in the writings of Bahá’u’lláh, I had a new insight that removed all my doubts about Baha’u’llah, and since then I’ve never doubted the truth of anything He says. I often doubt my understanding of what He’s saying, but never the truth of it.
I never thought of Him as my master teacher until recently, after I learned more about master teachers.
Audie
Veteran Member
I wasn’t searching for one. Some people do, but I don’t really know much about their motivations. I’ll just tell you my own story. Maybe other people will tell you theirs, if you would like them to.
I went to Baha’i children’s classes for a few years in my early childhood. My parents were divorced and I was living with my mother. Then starting in middle school I lived with my father who despised all religions. I grew up thinking he was an atheist but later I found out that he did believe in something he called “God.” We all went to his wife’s church where I went to confirmation classes. My only memories of that are from the camps, and one discussion about whether or not Jesus was the promised Messiah. Can you guess what we all decided?
During high school I saw myself at one time or another as an atheist, objectivist, Unitarian, agnostic, and born-again Christian, but all during that time I looked up to Bahá’u’lláh because of the wisdom I saw in His writings. I admired what I saw Baha’is doing and I wanted to support it, but I didn’t join because I was opposed to all organized religion, and as much as I looked up to Bahá’u’lláh, I couldn’t honestly say that I accepted His claims.
After I flunked out of Purdue University in my fourth year in electrical engineering, after a few months of technical school and repairing radios at Magnavox, and after joining the Air Force to avoid being drafted into the Army, one day, reading something in the writings of Bahá’u’lláh, I had a new insight that removed all my doubts about Baha’u’llah, and since then I’ve never doubted the truth of anything He says. I often doubt my understanding of what He’s saying, but never the truth of it.
I never thought of Him as my master teacher until recently, after I learned more about master teachers.
We all have such different experiences with life,
even siblings they say grow up with a different
environment.
I grew up in such an areligious home that it was
no more a thing than, say, the board games of
ancient Persia.
We did observe Christmas, (it is big in HK)
and I of course saw temples, and little shrines
in people's homes.
Never had thought in religious terms.
Avoiding magical thinking is just one of
the many mental disciplines my mom
instilled in me.
But who knows, in a fundy home, a Islamic
or Hindu home, maybe I'd be so very different.
I was not though, religion of any sort just was
not a thing.
So I never fancied to label myself as agnostic,
atheist, objectivist, etc. I am just me. Not
accepting to be defined in someone else's terms.
Like, as a woman, I am an a-man? Sheesh.
While you and I wqould never see eye to eye
on religious matters, and I think you are barking
up the wrong tree in various ways, you do present
as sane and reasonable.
A lot of our theist sorts do seem to be bonkers.
One fellow has it that the water from noahs flood
was wafted to Neptune where it shines to this day
as a warning beacon against incoming rogue angels.
Was he already crazy before he took to religion?
Or did his religion lead him so far from sanity.
Who knows.
Sometimes religion looks to me like a drug
that it takes you in and leads you far away.
I've an uncle who was taken in by the cultural
revolution, I mean taken in, body and soul.
I know he did unspeakable things in the name
of the great leader. He is st ill rabid-I suppose
his mid would explode if he ever faced the truth.
Who knows what his life experience had been
or what was it was in the subtle poisons of Mao's
message that clicked with him, and took him in.
Our "wafted to Neptune" fellow and others like
him are the same way, if they ever saw the
craziness of their beliefs, they could not
handle it. So they never will.
I am profoundly suspicious / distrustful of
any sort of leaders or masters.