Does Free Will Exist?

[Willamena]

But while there may be "physical constraints" or "reality checks" on the execution of someone's "wanting" to do something, that does not negate anyone's free will.

Of course not.

Many people have used their free will to decide that they can fly off a cliff by flapping their arms fast enough, even though it didn't turn out at all as expected, that was apart from their "free will" decision to do it anyway.

Good luck with that, many-people. Free will isn't about doing the impossible.

 

[Ponder This]

My sympathies for your lack of understanding.

Okay...

YOU: "I have pointed out the better definition for Free Will (a definition he acknowledges that people use)."

Now, if the only way you can explain yourself is to quibble about semantics, have a good day.

Do you have a coherent objection?

Re-watched the beginning and saw no such thing. The first definition he uses is "Free will is the ability to have acted differently."

You should re-watch. At 1:33, he states, "Now the first issue that we have to face is, of course, the definition of Free Will. Since when I'm debating, I'm the one who's denying the existence of something that someone else believes in, it really needs to be that someone else's definition that I'm using, which is why a video like this can be quite tricky..."
1:58 "...but I can only do this once I'm sure that we all mean the same thing by Free Will."
He doesn't get to the definition of Free Will until 2:09.

Alex understands the importance of beginning with an agreed upon definition (especially, in a philosophical and logical argument). It's one of the reasons I enjoy watching his videos! My condolences "for your lack of understanding."

Not at all. He breaks down DOING into two possibilities: because you Wanted to, OR because you were Forced to. Being forced to do something, which would be in contradiction to your wants, has nothing to do with your will, be it free or not.

>.> ...not sure if you are disagreeing with me or agreeing with me... <.<

So just how does this other definition read? All Dillahunty did was give an example of doing something ones self and somebody else doing something. This hardly amounts to a definition of free will. It's like saying "eating" is defined as putting food in one's mouth or someone else putting food in your mouth. Is that how you would define "eating"? Of course not. It's dumb.

I gave a "better" definition of Free Will in my first post (#101), the post to which you objected... I will now quote it for your convenience (it's okay, I have a spoon right here):

Definition of Free Will:
"the faculty, not under the control or in the power of another (able to act or be done as one wishes) by which a person decides on and initiates action"

You have been given fair opportunity to raise coherent, relevant objections to my criticisms. Have a Wonderful Day!

 

[Ancient Soul]

You don’t think that humans’ mental abilities are superior to those of animals? When is the last time an animal invented something like an airplane or a cure for cancer?

We were discussing "free will" which has nothing to do with inventing airplanes and curing cancer, so have no idea where that gigantic leap came from.

So I would prefer to stick to the issue of your statement of:

"No, animals do not have free will because they operate on instinct. Humans have free will because we have a rational mind, which is associated with the soul. Animals do not have a soul, they have an animal spirit."

Now again:

free will
n.
1. The ability or discretion to choose; free choice: chose to remain behind of my own free will.
2. The power of making choices that are neither determined by natural causality nor predestined by fate or divine will.

So I want to know what real life observations/facts you have to back up your claim. Because I just don't understand how people can NOT see that other creatures think and make choices all the time. It's like they are told something and believe that over what they see right in front of them. Like when a horse has an itch on his back that he cannot reach, so picks up a stick to rub the itch, that's clearly reasoning out a problem and coming up with a solution. It's not just "instinct" as other horses don't do that. Or the study done with some crows in a certain area that figured out how to crack open nuts by dropping them on the road for cars to break them open. Then figured out that it was safer to drop them in crosswalks so they could swoop down and eat the nuts while the lights were red and eat them in safety. Or any number of such events that show thinking and reasoning is involved, yet people believe the it's ALL "instinct" lie and just block all such events out of their minds.

I get my beliefs from my religion, the Baha’i Faith. I believe that only humans have a rational soul and other animals have an animal spirit. The rational soul continues to exist in the spiritual world after the body dies, but I do not know if the animal spirit continues to exist in the spiritual world. There are differing opinions among those of my religion regarding this.

I sure hope that animals continue to exist in the spiritual world but there is no way to know.
Since I LIVE for the cats, an afterlife without my cats would be no life at all.

What do you believe?

I know that ALL living creatures/beings have souls or they would not be alive. And I know that for two reasons. The first being that God had shown me that during my childhood OBE/NDE. And the second being that I can perceive/feel the soul's energy in all living creatures.

However FYI - In the spiritual realm/heaven/"afterlife" there is no physical matter, so all entities and Deities exist as pure soul/spiritual energy without any physical form.

 

[Trailblazer]

So I would prefer to stick to the issue of your statement of:

"No, animals do not have free will because they operate on instinct. Humans have free will because we have a rational mind, which is associated with the soul. Animals do not have a soul, they have an animal spirit."

So I want to know what real life observations/facts you have to back up your claim. Because I just don't understand how people can NOT see that other creatures think and make choices all the time. It's like they are told something and believe that over what they see right in front of them. Like when a horse has an itch on his back that he cannot reach, so picks up a stick to rub the itch, that's clearly reasoning out a problem and coming up with a solution. It's not just "instinct" as other horses don't do that. Or the study done with some crows in a certain area that figured out how to crack open nuts by dropping them on the road for cars to break them open. Then figured out that it was safer to drop them in crosswalks so they could swoop down and eat the nuts while the lights were red and eat them in safety. Or any number of such events that show thinking and reasoning is involved, yet people believe the it's ALL "instinct" lie and just block all such events out of their minds.

Animals do think and make choices but they cannot think in the abstract like humans do. Animals are mostly driven by instinct. Free will is not just about making choices, it is about making moral choices. Animals do not make moral choices. Animals do not choose to believe in God or not.

I know that ALL living creatures/beings have souls or they would not be alive. And I know that for two reasons. The first being that God had shown me that during my childhood OBE/NDE. And the second being that I can perceive/feel the soul's energy in all living creatures.

I think it is just a matter of semantics. All living creatures have a spirit but I differentiate spirit from soul in that only humans have a soul that can know and worship God and attain the presence of God. Other animals have no concept of God. It’s like this…

“Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him. If it be faithful to God, it will reflect His light, and will, eventually, return unto Him. If it fail, however, in its allegiance to its Creator, it will become a victim to self and passion, and will, in the end, sink in their depths.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 158-159

“And now concerning thy question regarding the soul of man and its survival after death. Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 155-156​

However FYI - In the spiritual realm/heaven/"afterlife" there is no physical matter, so all entities and Deities exist as pure soul/spiritual energy without any physical form.

That is also what I believe but I believe that soul takes on a form of some kind, which I call a spiritual body. That body is made up of elements that exist in the spiritual realm.

What do you mean by entities and Deities? Do you think there is more than one Deity?

 

[We Never Know]

Animals do think and make choices but they cannot think in the abstract like humans do. Animals are mostly driven by instinct. Free will is not just about making choices, it is about making moral choices. Animals do not make moral choices. Animals do not choose to believe in God or not.

I think it is just a matter of semantics. All living creatures have a spirit but I differentiate spirit from soul in that only humans have a soul that can know and worship God and attain the presence of God. Other animals have no concept of God. It’s like this…

“Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him. If it be faithful to God, it will reflect His light, and will, eventually, return unto Him. If it fail, however, in its allegiance to its Creator, it will become a victim to self and passion, and will, in the end, sink in their depths.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 158-159

“And now concerning thy question regarding the soul of man and its survival after death. Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 155-156​

That is also what I believe but I believe that soul takes on a form of some kind, which I call a spiritual body. That body is made up of elements that exist in the spiritual realm.

What do you mean by entities and Deities? Do you think there is more than one Deity?

Agreed. Animals don't choose between good and bad or right and wrong. They choose for survival.

However it's shown dogs feel guilt and know when they have done wrong. Does that affect the reason on why they made the choice to rip up a pillow or dig out the trash or is it trained behavior knowing they are in trouble?

 

[Trailblazer]

Agreed. Animals don't choose between good and bad or right and wrong. They choose for survival.

However it's shown dogs feel guilt and know when they have done wrong. Does that affect the reason on why they made the choice to rip up a pillow or dig out the trash or is it trained behavior knowing they are in trouble?

Maybe that dog did not feel guilty in the sense of knowing he did wrong, but he has learned from past experience that this behavior will get him in trouble so he looks guilty, but I think that is just us humans projecting what we think the dog might feel onto the dog.

 

[samtonga43]

I would still like to know the answer to my question re mango ice-cream (#270-3).

Maybe it's too silly to bother about, but which one should I choose?

 

[Trailblazer]

I would still like to know the answer to my question re mango ice-cream (#270-3).

If it really matters, the answer will come to you.

 

[samtonga43]

You think it doesn't matter which I choose?

 

[Nimos]

However it's shown dogs feel guilt and know when they have done wrong. Does that affect the reason on why they made the choice to rip up a pillow or dig out the trash or is it trained behavior knowing they are in trouble?

That dogs feel guilt, im pretty sure is a myth, just saying

 

[We Never Know]

That dogs feel guilt, im pretty sure is a myth, just saying

Maybe, maybe not. They sure have the act down pat.

 

[Nimos]

Maybe, maybe not. They sure have the act down pat.

Its a interesting video, but not very telling I think. You might find this article interesting, which could explain some.

Do Dogs Feel Guilty?

 

[Trailblazer]

You think it doesn't matter which I choose?

No, I don't think it matters.

 

[Skwim]

You think it doesn't matter which I choose?

Does it matter to you? If so, why?

.

 

[samtonga43]

Does WHAT matter to me?

 

[Skwim]

Does WHAT matter to me?

Have a good day.

.

 

[Koldo]

I would still like to know the answer to my question re mango ice-cream (#270-3).

Maybe it's too silly to bother about, but which one should I choose?

You would end up choosing based on other criteria. Perhaps the cheaper one, for instance.

 

[samtonga43]

As I said, they are exactly the same, in all respects.

 

[Trailblazer]

Does WHAT matter to me?

Which flavor of ice cream you will eat.

 

[samtonga43]

As I keep saying, they are both mango-flavored.
They are exactly the same, in all respects.