Hypothetical scenario for a world without religion

[charlie sc]

This still doesn't explain to me why you seem to be defending people who cause a lot of harm to people. I was the one to say that it was biological. It doesn't negate the damage. It must be faced realistically.

If you didn't understand what I said and see what I said as simple as, "defending people who cause a lot of harm to people", then you honestly need to reread my replies to you. With your attitude, I have no doubt there is no hope. Congrats.

 

[Kilk1]

Not at all. I'm not saying, at all, that the supernatural is excluded nor am I say everything will be shown to be natural. Have you considered natural interventions that are not supernatural? I mean, we do have millions of sci-fi ideas some of which have come true It seems like you want to choose God/supernatural because there's invested interest or conflict of interest lol


Gravity is nowhere near an example for this phenomenon. No one has seen something contradict what we know of gravity. If we do however, like those alien abductee stories and their explanation of flying saucers, they don't give a supernatural explanations. Their explanation is advance technology. If a caveman saw our technology, they may think it's magic. So I see god as even a less of an explanation than advanced aliens, because we actually have evidence of technology improving and sentient life, but not of the supernatural or god(btw, if you go outside science, so can I). Perhaps you'd like to explain why the supernatural is a better explanation than advanced aliens or how you’d exclude aliens?

Aha! So that's what Jesus meant by saying He's "not of this world" (John 8:23, NKJV). Joking aside, I'm not convinced God is less likely an explanation than aliens. Arguments for God (e.g., the cosmological argument, cosmic constants, etc.) show evidence for God's existence, whereas no evidence for aliens has been discovered, even in spite of expensive SETI efforts. Again, don't you think Jesus Himself is the best qualified to explain how it all happened? He obviously must know something we don't. (Why do I feel nervous that the length of discussion on this might explode rather quickly? )

What I said about raising the dead, lol, was that we can resuscitate people if they die under certain conditions. So this is an example of what is done - https://www.nth.nhs.uk/content/uplo...ps-a-guide-to-CPR-decisions-14.10.16-LP-1.pdf Therefore, people do die but they are resuscitated. Now, have you heard of someone contradicting gravity for a few minutes? Bad example. Also, I find it strange that if we did see a ball floating upwards the only explanation someone may come up with is god or the supernatural. This is all I need to say on this but I'll go even further.

There's a phenomenon called The Lazarus phenomenon. People have been dead for hours and even a day as I saw. There are scientific theories why that happened with what we know of medicine(assuming they actually died and was not mistaken). The nice thing about debating topics is you get to study other material. There is a difference between clinical death vs biological death, which might even be important for this discussion. Anyway, these are actual cases of people reviving by themselves(depending on the theory) and wanting a cup of tea hours later Check the link and/or study the phenomenon further.

I don't know, Charlie. These sources seem less on proving that dead people can be revived than--using wording from the second link--"Mistaking the living for the dead." In other words, modern standards for declaring someone "dead" may be close to the truth, but not completely there. Some people, rarely, can be on the borderline where even their heart stops beating, etc. However, their deaths aren't truly finalized to the point of no return.

Jesus, on the other hand, was clearly killed. As the Journal of the American Medical Association said, "Jesus' death was ensured by the thrust of a soldier's spear into his side." When this happened, "immediately blood and water came out" (John 19:34, NKJV). This would happen if the pericardium (the sac that surrounds the heart) was ruptured, spilling water, and if the right side of the heart was pierced, drawing blood. That this type of death--an unambiguous one--is permanent is as well observed as the law of gravity.

Everything we observe says Jesus couldn't have revived from His clear, unambiguous death--not naturally, anyway. So, as the first premise goes, if He did, would you agree that at the very least, it would violate our current knowledge of nature?

 

[Bird123]

Quite frankly, I don't know what God will do about sociopaths, which is what I believe modern culture calls the truly evil.

Sociopathy/Psychopathy is a brain disorder affecting the amygdala and frontal lobe. It results in various physical features such as a significantly lessened ability to fear and anxiety, and psycho-biological features such as lack of empathy and inability to form one's own conscience.

One might ask if, given such biological constraints, such people are even morally responsible for what they do.

Their limited morality responds only to the threat of being caught and suffering a significant penalty, whether it is a spanking or the death penalty. Indeed, their guiding compass is, do whatever I want so long as I don't get caught. Not only do they not hurt when others are hurt, they feel that others are their for their own personal benefit.

There is nothing in this life, short of a biological miracle, that can fix these individuals.

All society can do is try to protect itself from trail of destruction they leave in their wake, whether it be broken hearts, empty wallets, or dead bodies.

What God does in the afterlife? I can't even imagine. My best guess is simply to snuff out the soul.

Adversity breeds invention. In time, mankind will be able to fix the biological problems. You must remember. God's goal is not about people having it made. So often problems lead people to learning and growth.

The idea that God will snuff out such a life stems from your hatred. God can fix any and all of His children.

Does hatred solve anything? A better choice would be to work at solving the problem rather than trying to destroy it. A problem will never go away until it is solved.

 

[Bird123]

I wonder to which Un-conditional love your are talking about ____________
There are conditions or requirement to be met according to Jesus at Matthew 12:32.
Plus, in Jesus' New commandment there is a requirement or condition to be met as per John 13:34-35.
We are to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.
In other words, Christians are required to meet the condition to now love neighbor ' more ' than self.
We are all free to acts responsibly toward God. That means love neighbor as Jesus loved.

Jesus is given the Resurrection Power (Revelation 1:18) thus dead children will be resurrected.
ALL of Jesus' resurrections brought people ( adults and children ) back to healthy physical life on Earth.
Jesus was giving us a preview, a coming attraction of what he will be doing on a grand international scale during his coming 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth begins.

Don't you see? Your conditions prove that it does not come from God.

We are Spiritual Beings trapped in a physical body. A physical body is not something you are going to want to hang unto. On the other hand, a physical body in a physical universe will be needed for many many lifetimes until one reaches a high enough level of learning.

 

[charlie sc]

Joking aside, I'm not convinced God is less likely an explanation than aliens. Arguments for God (e.g., the cosmological argument, cosmic constants, etc.) show evidence for God's existence, whereas no evidence for aliens has been discovered, even in spite of expensive SETI efforts.

Ha, I won't let you sneak this one past me.

Sam:
What are you up to? Sneaking off, are we?
Gollum:
Sneaking? Sneaking? Fat hobbit is always so polite. SmÈagol shows them secret ways that nobody else could find, and they say sneak. Sneak? Very nice friend. Oh, yes, my precious. Very nice, very nice.
Sam:
All right all right! You just startled me is all. What were you doing?
Gollum:
Sneaking.

Yeah... sneaking... These do not show evidence for god's existence. Let me rephrase for you, the cosmological argument is an unsound argument for the prime-mover/first-cause, not god or the supernatural. If this was evidence for god, we wouldn't need this debate and it would be substantiated in science. However, if you really want to examine those syllogisms, I'd be happy to, but I feel as though we'll run into the same problem. Nonetheless, we have direct evidence for sentient life(human beings) and technology. Just for fun and for arguments sake, I'd even be willing to say the supernatural is on the same level as aliens

whereas no evidence for aliens has been discovered, even in spite of expensive SETI efforts.

So are you saying we haven't found aliens in science, therefore, they don't exist? Ahhem, let me do the same. We haven't found god in science, therefore, god doesn't exist. Phew! is our discussion done? hahahaha

Again, don't you think Jesus Himself is the best qualified to explain how it all happened? He obviously must know something we don't.

No. You always, at least I hope you do, examine every claim individually. If Jesus said he's hard to kill, sure, that sounds pretty reasonable, but anything else requires it's own evidence. This is exactly why in any science report there are references to studies for every single claim, which you can check. Even then you have to weigh the evidence at hand and use critical thinking.
In a documentary I saw, some Christian scam artists were selling holy water for thousands of dollars. Should you believe them because they say it's miraculous water ? Lots of people lost their life savings.

Why do I feel nervous that the length of discussion on this might explode rather quickly?

Some people, rarely, can be on the borderline where even their heart stops beating, etc. However, their deaths aren't truly finalized to the point of no return.

The more we understand about a topic the less confident we become. When you claim certainty you close your mind off to possibilities. This is demonstrated by the Dunning Kruger Effect and even Socrates understood this. This link I gave did not just discuss the possibility that they were mistaken as dead but also gave possible scientific explanations if they actually died(check the What might cause Lazarus syndrome? heading).

To continue with this line of thought, the article explains that,
""Death should not be certified in any patient immediately after stopping CPR," the researchers write, "and one should wait at least 10 minutes, if not longer, to verify and confirm death beyond doubt.""

Now, I found that pretty interesting! Even with our technology, researchers advise to wait at least 10 minutes just in case they revive by themselves. Nevertheless, I'm willing to say Jesus, or whoever, was biologically dead even though back then they had no idea what the difference was between clinical death vs biological death, nor did I before I started this discussion. Apparently, if you're not biologically dead, you may wake up the next day and want to go for a run. You do notice how I have to continuously go along your interpretation and satisfy your perspective, but you're not willing to do the same? The more I have to ignore evidence and arguments to the contrary, the more it becomes about satisfying your logical preference and this discussion become less reciprocal. Anyway...

esus, on the other hand, was clearly killed. As the Journal of the American Medical Association said, "Jesus' death was ensured by the thrust of a soldier's spear into his side." When this happened, "immediately blood and water came out" (John 19:34, NKJV). This would happen if the pericardium (the sac that surrounds the heart) was ruptured, spilling water, and if the right side of the heart was pierced, drawing blood. That this type of death--an unambiguous one--is permanent is as well observed as the law of gravity.

No, it's not. I'd be much happier with decapitation and actual video footage, you know, a bit like the one I posted of that guy being resurrected. However, I am willing to concede he actually died and I think it's most probable anyway. Though don't say it's the same as laws of gravity since people do die and come back to life(clinical = hours to days; biological 3-10 minutes). People get shot multiple times and live afterwards. I understand for you this is so indisputable that it has to be, but I'm not convinced for a multitude of reasons. However, for this argument I'm willing to concede he actually died. Why don't we say he died a biological death(clinical vs biological). Perhaps then you can explain to me why a million science fiction theories(natural) is less explainable than a supernatural event as I mentioned above? Remember, the supernatural and aliens are not demonstrated in science, therefore, you cannot use science for this.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jesus, on the other hand, was clearly killed. As the Journal of the American Medical Association said, "Jesus' death was ensured by the thrust of a soldier's spear into his side." When this happened, "immediately blood and water came out" (John 19:34, NKJV). This would happen if the pericardium (the sac that surrounds the heart) was ruptured, spilling water, and if the right side of the heart was pierced, drawing blood. That this type of death--an unambiguous one--is permanent is as well observed as the law of gravity.
Everything we observe says Jesus couldn't have revived from His clear, unambiguous death--not naturally, anyway. So, as the first premise goes, if He did, would you agree that at the very least, it would violate our current knowledge of nature?

There is No biblical teaching that dead Jesus revived himself. Dead Jesus was truly dead.
Rather, Scripture teaches that the God of Jesus resurrected the dead Jesus - Acts of the Apostles 2:24,27.
( Acts of the Apostles 2:31-32; Acts of the Apostles 3:15; Acts of the Apostles 5:30; Colossians 2:12; Romans 10:9 )
Then, later the resurrected Jesus appeared in heaven before the presence of his God as per Hebrews 9:24.
For that matter, the heavenly Jesus still thinks he has a God over him as per Revelation 3:12.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Don't you see? Your conditions prove that it does not come from God.
We are Spiritual Beings trapped in a physical body. A physical body is not something you are going to want to hang unto. On the other hand, a physical body in a physical universe will be needed for many many lifetimes until one reaches a high enough level of learning.

I can find No Scripture teaching Adam was a spirit being, or spiritual being, just trapped in a physical body.
Mortal Adam could live forever on Earth as long as he did Not break God's law.
Since the dead know nothing, - Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Isaiah 38:18; John 11:11-14 -
then there is No reaching of a high enough level of learning.
Thus, in Scripture there are No post-mortem penalties, No double jeopardy.
Other teachings are the teachings of men's thinking outside of Scripture, but often taught as being Scripture.
So, whoever is teaching you that you are a Spiritual Being trapped in a physical body is Not teaching you what the Bible really teaches which is resurrection. Resurrection is being brought back to life by Christ Jesus.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Adversity breeds invention. In time, mankind will be able to fix the biological problems. You must remember. God's goal is not about people having it made. So often problems lead people to learning and growth.
The idea that God will snuff out such a life stems from your hatred. God can fix any and all of His children.
Does hatred solve anything? A better choice would be to work at solving the problem rather than trying to destroy it. A problem will never go away until it is solved.

Since the hate-filled wicked won't repent then that is why the wicked will be ' destroyed forever '- Psalms 92:7.
According to Scripture, it is a returning Jesus who will fix biological problems, etc.
This is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Come and fix the nations with ' healing ' for earth's nations as per Revelation 22:2.
This is when mankind will see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' for the healing of earth's nations.
Jesus will fulfill Gods promise to father Abraham that ALL nations and ALL families of Earth will be blessed.
Blessed with ' healing ' and even 'enemy death' will be No more on Earth as per 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Adversity breeds invention. In time, mankind will be able to fix the biological problems. You must remember. God's goal is not about people having it made. So often problems lead people to learning and growth.

The idea that God will snuff out such a life stems from your hatred. God can fix any and all of His children.

Does hatred solve anything? A better choice would be to work at solving the problem rather than trying to destroy it. A problem will never go away until it is solved.

I don't know where you get the idea that "God will snuff out such a life" is my solution. And I don't know where you get the idea that I hate these people. The sociopaths that I counsel, I would have to say that I have genuine love and compassion for. They experience only a part of life, they are cut off, and for that, my heart aches for them. I wish terribly that I could help them feel, and live fully the joy and richness of life. I work hard to make their lives better, for the sake of everyone, not just their victims, but for themselves as well. But I am a realistic, tough love kind of compassionate person. These are people with a track record of doing harm. No matter how much my heart cares for them, if they indicate that they are hurting someone or planning on hurting someone, I send them right back to prison.

What am I trying to say here? I guess that I am a complicated person. And because I am complicated, I can grasp the complexities of the human psyche. Please don't pigeon hole me.

Of COURSE you try to solve a problem. And THAT is exactly why I became a counselor.

But you also hold people responsible. If someone harms others, they pay a price. It is beneath the dignity of human beings that we say, "Oh you poor thing, you are just a child of two and not responsible for your actions so we will not give you any consequences for your behavior." That's insulting to a person's humanity, including if someone is a sociopath. In the end, it damages their self esteem, which erodes their psyche and their soul. It also, in virtually all cases, makes them feel entitled to act badly, so they act even more badly.

I do hope that the day will come when medical science will be able to fix psychopathy, perhaps with a neural stimulator or something. It will be tricky though, because we don't want to loose the beneficial traits that we gain from the more functional psychopaths -- having less feeling means you have calm nerves in the operating table or at a crime scene. What kind of world would we live in if politicians broke down from the criticism they received during campaigns?

 

[Kilk1]

Ha, I won't let you sneak this one past me.

Sam:
What are you up to? Sneaking off, are we?
Gollum:
Sneaking? Sneaking? Fat hobbit is always so polite. SmÈagol shows them secret ways that nobody else could find, and they say sneak. Sneak? Very nice friend. Oh, yes, my precious. Very nice, very nice.
Sam:
All right all right! You just startled me is all. What were you doing?
Gollum:
Sneaking.

Yeah... sneaking... These do not show evidence for god's existence. Let me rephrase for you, the cosmological argument is an unsound argument for the prime-mover/first-cause, not god or the supernatural. If this was evidence for god, we wouldn't need this debate and it would be substantiated in science.

Wait, so the cosmological argument isn't arguing for "god or the supernatural"? Really? It's one thing to disagree with the argument, but are you claiming that something natural--maybe aliens again--could be the first cause of the Universe? I get that we can't learn everything about God from the cosmological argument as well as the argument from cosmic constants (aka the fine-tuning argument). But surely the goal of the arguments--whether sound in your mind or not--is to show that there is a God, right?

However, if you really want to examine those syllogisms, I'd be happy to, but I feel as though we'll run into the same problem. Nonetheless, we have direct evidence for sentient life(human beings) and technology. Just for fun and for arguments sake, I'd even be willing to say the supernatural is on the same level as aliens

I keep going back and forth in my mind as to whether we should get into arguments for the existence of God. It's definitely likely we should.

So are you saying we haven't found aliens in science, therefore, they don't exist? Ahhem, let me do the same. We haven't found god in science, therefore, god doesn't exist. Phew! is our discussion done? hahahaha

Did I say that? I thought I said, "Arguments for God (e.g., the cosmological argument, cosmic constants, etc.) show evidence for God's existence, whereas no evidence for aliens has been discovered, even in spite of expensive SETI efforts." There's no "in science" clause; whether philosophical, scientific, or otherwise, there's evidence for God and no evidence for aliens, unless you're saying otherwise.

Hmm, we probably are going to have to have some sort of "God vs. aliens" debate, lol!

No. You always, at least I hope you do, examine every claim individually. If Jesus said he's hard to kill, sure, that sounds pretty reasonable, but anything else requires it's own evidence. This is exactly why in any science report there are references to studies for every single claim, which you can check. Even then you have to weigh the evidence at hand and use critical thinking.
In a documentary I saw, some Christian scam artists were selling holy water for thousands of dollars. Should you believe them because they say it's miraculous water ? Lots of people lost their life savings.

Now this is an interesting point to consider. I guess the way you're seeing it, even if Jesus rose from the dead, it doesn't prove He can do anything else out of the ordinary.

I'm with you about not trusting scam artists selling "holy water." However, if they performed miracles in the past like rising from the dead, etc. (as is the case with Jesus), then I'd consider it possible. If they had an honest reputation to go with their previously performing miracles, maybe I'd even buy some.

You know, now that I think about it, what would it take for you to believe, Charlie? Even if God Himself appeared in front of you in some way, would you just write Him off as some giant alien?

The more we understand about a topic the less confident we become. When you claim certainty you close your mind off to possibilities. This is demonstrated by the Dunning Kruger Effect and even Socrates understood this. This link I gave did not just discuss the possibility that they were mistaken as dead but also gave possible scientific explanations if they actually died(check the What might cause Lazarus syndrome? heading).

To continue with this line of thought, the article explains that,
""Death should not be certified in any patient immediately after stopping CPR," the researchers write, "and one should wait at least 10 minutes, if not longer, to verify and confirm death beyond doubt.""

Now, I found that pretty interesting! Even with our technology, researchers advise to wait at least 10 minutes just in case they revive by themselves. Nevertheless, I'm willing to say Jesus, or whoever, was biologically dead even though back then they had no idea what the difference was between clinical death vs biological death, nor did I before I started this discussion. Apparently, if you're not biologically dead, you may wake up the next day and want to go for a run. You do notice how I have to continuously go along your interpretation and satisfy your perspective, but you're not willing to do the same? The more I have to ignore evidence and arguments to the contrary, the more it becomes about satisfying your logical preference and this discussion become less reciprocal. Anyway...

I don't want you to just "go along with" what I'm saying. For the first premise, we have to assume Jesus rose from the dead, of course. However, I'm not going around like, "So, if we assume this and assume that and then assume ... therefore, the resurrection was a divine miracle." There's a sphere of agreement about Jesus that almost everyone, whether Christian, Jew, Muslim, atheist, etc., grants, and I'm trying to work from there. Neither the Journal of the American Medical Association nor John Dominic Crossan are Christian apologists, by any means.

So I'm not asking you to assume anything that mainstream, secular scholarship doesn't grant. This doesn't make the discussion "less reciprocal." Claiming that aliens did it, a theory no scholar of any philosophical persuasion takes seriously, would seem more in that direction.

No, it's not. I'd be much happier with decapitation and actual video footage, you know, a bit like the one I posted of that guy being resurrected. However, I am willing to concede he actually died and I think it's most probable anyway. Though don't say it's the same as laws of gravity since people do die and come back to life(clinical = hours to days; biological 3-10 minutes). People get shot multiple times and live afterwards. I understand for you this is so indisputable that it has to be, but I'm not convinced for a multitude of reasons. However, for this argument I'm willing to concede he actually died. Why don't we say he died a biological death(clinical vs biological). Perhaps then you can explain to me why a million science fiction theories(natural) is less explainable than a supernatural event as I mentioned above? Remember, the supernatural and aliens are not demonstrated in science, therefore, you cannot use science for this.

I don't see how someone can have their heart pierced and still be biologically alive--unless you're heartbroken, of course. Okay, going back to being serious, Jesus was crucified, and again, His "death was ensured by the thrust of a soldier's spear into his side." I thought the longest known case of clinical death was one single day, not "days," but regardless of clinical death, how could someone not be biologically dead after having a spear thrust into their heart?

Just to emphasize my question above, what would it take for you to be a theist? Would God Himself have to appear in front of you somehow? Even if He did this, would you just write Him off as some giant alien?

 

[Bird123]

I can find No Scripture teaching Adam was a spirit being, or spiritual being, just trapped in a physical body.
Mortal Adam could live forever on Earth as long as he did Not break God's law.
Since the dead know nothing, - Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Isaiah 38:18; John 11:11-14 -
then there is No reaching of a high enough level of learning.
Thus, in Scripture there are No post-mortem penalties, No double jeopardy.
Other teachings are the teachings of men's thinking outside of Scripture, but often taught as being Scripture.
So, whoever is teaching you that you are a Spiritual Being trapped in a physical body is Not teaching you what the Bible really teaches which is resurrection. Resurrection is being brought back to life by Christ Jesus.

You are right. What I say does not come from the scriptures which are stories written by mankind. What I have said does not come from following or being taught by a person. What I have said can be Discovered by each of us. God hides nothing. God needs no books especially those written by mankind. All the secrets of the universe stare us in the face just waiting to be discovered.

 

[Bird123]

Since the hate-filled wicked won't repent then that is why the wicked will be ' destroyed forever '- Psalms 92:7.
According to Scripture, it is a returning Jesus who will fix biological problems, etc.
This is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Come and fix the nations with ' healing ' for earth's nations as per Revelation 22:2.
This is when mankind will see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' for the healing of earth's nations.
Jesus will fulfill Gods promise to father Abraham that ALL nations and ALL families of Earth will be blessed.
Blessed with ' healing ' and even 'enemy death' will be No more on Earth as per 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8.

Reciting stories will not make them true. Look closer and see. This world is not the problem. It is the solution. No one is coming to fix this world. There is nothing to fix. The kiddies are Learning just as they are supposed to do.

This world and God have nothing to do with repenting. That is your religion corrupting your thinking. They are teaching you to hate others. Think about that.

 

[Bird123]

I don't know where you get the idea that "God will snuff out such a life" is my solution. And I don't know where you get the idea that I hate these people. The sociopaths that I counsel, I would have to say that I have genuine love and compassion for. They experience only a part of life, they are cut off, and for that, my heart aches for them. I wish terribly that I could help them feel, and live fully the joy and richness of life. I work hard to make their lives better, for the sake of everyone, not just their victims, but for themselves as well. But I am a realistic, tough love kind of compassionate person. These are people with a track record of doing harm. No matter how much my heart cares for them, if they indicate that they are hurting someone or planning on hurting someone, I send them right back to prison.

What am I trying to say here? I guess that I am a complicated person. And because I am complicated, I can grasp the complexities of the human psyche. Please don't pigeon hole me.

Of COURSE you try to solve a problem. And THAT is exactly why I became a counselor.

But you also hold people responsible. If someone harms others, they pay a price. It is beneath the dignity of human beings that we say, "Oh you poor thing, you are just a child of two and not responsible for your actions so we will not give you any consequences for your behavior." That's insulting to a person's humanity, including if someone is a sociopath. In the end, it damages their self esteem, which erodes their psyche and their soul. It also, in virtually all cases, makes them feel entitled to act badly, so they act even more badly.

I do hope that the day will come when medical science will be able to fix psychopathy, perhaps with a neural stimulator or something. It will be tricky though, because we don't want to loose the beneficial traits that we gain from the more functional psychopaths -- having less feeling means you have calm nerves in the operating table or at a crime scene. What kind of world would we live in if politicians broke down from the criticism they received during campaigns?

Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other and not just give them what they want. With this in mind, is protecting everyone really a bad choice? Of course not.

Mankind can be a stubborn lot. That is why God set it up for us all to Live our lessons.

Since, people can be very stubborn to change, you must be very very patient. Move a grain of sand every time to see them. In time, they will learn. I have found that when they do finally change they almost always think it was their idea. That is perfectly OK since the glory of changing them means absolutely nothing.

If they do not change for you, keep moving the sand for there might be another who will make the final difference after you are gone. Never Give Up!!

I know this works. By now, I can't count how many I have pointed in the right direction. Remember, the glory of having changed another means absolutely nothing. We are here but to serve.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

......... God needs no books especially those written by mankind. All the secrets of the universe stare us in the face just waiting to be discovered.

I can agree the secrets of the universe..... waiting to be discovered.
I can also agree God needs No book, but needing and using are two different things.
In writing a book is Not an oral repeating such as ' whisper down the lane ' can be.
What Jesus taught is like a love letter to us for us to cherish again and again, and does Not change.
Plus, the happy climax of Revelation 22:2 that there will be ' healing ' for earth's nations is already discovered by Bible readers, Bible students. This is why we are all invited to pray the invitation for Jesus to come !
Come and fulfill God's promise to father Abraham that ALL families and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed.
Blessed with the benefit of ' healing ' for earth's nations - Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18
We can't discover this coming happy future just by looking at the universe itself.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This world and God have nothing to do with repenting. That is your religion corrupting your thinking. They are teaching you to hate others. Think about that.

I can agree that this ' world '(society as it is today) has nothing to do with repenting and it never will.
Think about: Jesus' recorded words found at Matthew 5:44 to love one's enemies.
How anyone can get ' hate ' out of 'love your enemies' is beyond me.
Even the Golden Rule (Leviticus 19:18) is to love neighbor.
Jesus' New commandment found at John 13:34-35 is to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.

 

[Bird123]

I can agree the secrets of the universe..... waiting to be discovered.
I can also agree God needs No book, but needing and using are two different things.
In writing a book is Not an oral repeating such as ' whisper down the lane ' can be.
What Jesus taught is like a love letter to us for us to cherish again and again, and does Not change.
Plus, the happy climax of Revelation 22:2 that there will be ' healing ' for earth's nations is already discovered by Bible readers, Bible students. This is why we are all invited to pray the invitation for Jesus to come !
Come and fulfill God's promise to father Abraham that ALL families and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed.
Blessed with the benefit of ' healing ' for earth's nations - Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18
We can't discover this coming happy future just by looking at the universe itself.

Your book creates a we and they separating God's children when there is no separation. Mankind wants to destroy, punish and control. That is reflected in your book. God simply teaches His children and in time they will all understand. They will all be Fixed.

 

[Bird123]

I can agree that this ' world '(society as it is today) has nothing to do with repenting and it never will.
Think about: Jesus' recorded words found at Matthew 5:44 to love one's enemies.
How anyone can get ' hate ' out of 'love your enemies' is beyond me.
Even the Golden Rule (Leviticus 19:18) is to love neighbor.
Jesus' New commandment found at John 13:34-35 is to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.

God's system is teaching everyone to Love Unconditionally as we speak. That is why this world is the solution.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Your book creates a we and they separating God's children when there is no separation. Mankind wants to destroy, punish and control. That is reflected in your book. God simply teaches His children and in time they will all understand. They will all be Fixed.

Since those committing the unforgivable sin of Matthew 12:32 are never forgiven, then the 'fix' is that only humble meek people will inherit the Earth as promised at Psalms 37:9-11

 

[URAVIP2ME]

God's system is teaching everyone to Love Unconditionally as we speak. That is why this world is the solution.

I find Jesus gave the world a ' condition ' as found at John 3:16.
This is why the world is given two (2) choices at 2 Peter 3:9 to ' repent ' if we do Not want to ' perish ' (be destroyed).
Thus, as Psalms 92:7 says the wicked will be ' destroyed forever '.
Even the first Ten Commandments gave the Israelites conditions to be met.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

......... Mankind wants to destroy, punish and control. That is reflected in your book............

Yes, and that is reflected at Ecclesiastes 8:9 that it is man who has dominates man to man's hurt or man's injury.
That is why God will bring to ruin those who want to destroy...... as per Revelation 11:18 B.