Do parents have thieves for children? Is someone born a murderer?
Or do they become that, themselves?
(See how easy that was?)
It’s all about our choices, which having free will allows us to make.
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If your holy book fails to match reality ...
- Thread starter Looncall
- Start date
Or do they become that, themselves?
(See how easy that was?)
It’s all about our choices, which having free will allows us to make.
Do you "understand" why Jehovah God's intervention by bringing the Flood was necessary? Genesis 6:1-4 sheds some light on the situation that existed prior to the Flood. Other Scriptures bring more clarity to it.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Eve ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That was a tree, in the garden.
Eve knew the rules, and sinned.
Eve knew the rules, and sinned.
There is much debate about this. Some accounts say that Jeffrey Dahmer was born the way he was. Not that he would commit the specific acts he did, but that he was born with a psychology that would allow him to arrive at acts like that. The jury is still out, but I find the evidence compelling. People are born with the genes that lead to sociopathic behavior.
This assumes that the choices made by some are the right ones without evidence to show they are.
Perfection does not mean robotic!
Would you expect a person who is perfect, but who never studied calculus, to be able to explain calculus?
What about a perfect person who slips off a muddy cliff....if they freefall 100 ft., you don't think they'd die?
A perfect baby... would he know better than to drink poison?
Just what do you think perfection entails?
Of course. She was not perfect. A perfect being would not have sinned. How can a perfect being even have free will, when a perfect being will always make the perfect choice?
Audie
Veteran Member
Better informed Christians dont try to excuse an
atrocity that did not even happen.
Why do you refuse so to become better
informed yourself? It is still possible.
Actually, I don't doubt that. He had a pretty lousy childhood though, didn't he? IDK.
So many are products of their environment.
We've gone over this. I believe the evidence is there.
Audie
Veteran Member
Yes. Why not? They are perfect. Do you consider knowledge to be an imperfection?
Sure. They could die. Most likely they would. If they were perfect they would not have made the foolish trip to a muddy cliff or been so ungainly as to slip.
A perfect mother would never have allowed poison near her baby. Nor a perfect father. Who is holding the bottle of poison for the baby? Not a perfect person.
That is a question I have for you. Apparently, your version of perfection leaves a person pretty flawed. According to many creationists, the fall from Eden lead to our not being perfect anymore and subject to death and other flaws. Yet here you are arguing that we had many--perhaps most--of those flaws even before Adam and Even sinned. According you, Eve, the perfect woman and person, was subject to temptation that is uncharacteristic of a perfect person. Adam likewise was imperfect and subject to temptation. In what way do you think these people were perfect.
Why would perfect people need free will?
There is no evidence that the flood ever happened. It is allegory.
the Bible indicates otherwise, in the account @ Matthew 4 and Luke 4, where the Devil tempts Jesus.
If a perfect person couldn't sin, the Devil wouldn't have even tried.
You believe it is there. That is double talk for 'you have no evidence'.
Audie
Veteran Member
It needs a lot more than your belief to
make it so.
You've let yourself be led off the trail
by very dishonest people.
It is kind of sad to see you in this state.
Wish I could help but nobody can if you
fight it off.
Audie
Veteran Member
So you have a contradiction here. Adam and Eve were perfect but could be tempted. Christ was perfect but could not be tempted.
On what basis do you think that the Devil would be perfect enough to know that he could not tempt Christ?
You have some serious dichotomies that you need to unravel for yourself before you start proclaiming what others should believe.
On the other hand, you are claiming that Christ was not perfect. Does that jibe with your other beliefs?
Audie
Veteran Member
Oh you are so technical!
Anyway, he has abrupt- cryo wooley mammoths
to prove flood!
Either Adam and Eve were perfect and all that that entails or they were not. You seem to be saying they were not. So if they were flawed, then how much changed for them upon being ousted from the Garden of Eden? There are a host of changes that are supposed, but now we know from you that many of these could have been pre-existing conditions and not the result of sin after all.