The Bible, Not As Original As You'd Think

[sealchan]

Sources?Also i found this don't know if it's reliable haven't looked into the sources it cites yet...:

Krishna and Christ: Debunking the Parallels between Jesus and Krishna

I remember all this from watching BR Chopra's Mahabharat which included much of Krishna's story from the Harivamsa.

 

[sealchan]

Nowadays recycling of stories on internet is easy and done continuously. But 2000 years ago there were not many books (transport), and not many could read I think. And what about 5000 years ago (Krishna) compared to 20.000 years ago (Rama) etc. Also those stories have similarities

All humans have lots of similarities, so it makes sense to me that Saint, Avatars also have similarities. Not necessary that stories are recycled I believe; there can be truth in them, another option is that human writers write similar "Saint Novels".

You forget that oral story tellers have always existed. Through oral story teller's creative repurposing of material from many traditions, stories could move and change quickly along any trading route.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Quite a while. That sort of reasoning by theists is only one of the reasons that I am no longer a theist.

Why not try to find out how we know that at the very least parts of the story are mythical and not factual?

It's a powerful book and if it wasn't nobody would be following it anymore. I'm not saying it's perfect.

But go ahead, list one thing that is mythical and not factual and we'll see if theistic reasoning cannot reconcile it.

 

[1213]

What is so special about the "teachings of Jesus"?

I think everything Jesus says in the Bible, is special and more advanced than anyone else has said. But one example is:

But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
Mat. 5:44-45

Did Horus say anything meaningful? Perhaps someone should now go and manufacture intelligent teachings to Horus so that he would not look so lame?

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's a powerful book and if it wasn't nobody would be following it anymore. I'm not saying it's perfect.

But go ahead, list one thing that is mythical and not factual and we'll see if theistic reasoning cannot reconcile it.

Luke's nativity is obviously mythical. He gives a ten year time span for Jesus's birth alone.

 

[1213]

No, they are as taught in Egypt 1200 years before JC came on the scene.

But how can it be known? Why should I believe that?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I think everything Jesus says in the Bible, is special and more advanced than anyone else has said. But one example is:

But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
Mat. 5:44-45

Did Horus say anything meaningful? Perhaps someone should now go and manufacture intelligent teachings to Horus so that he would not look so lame?

I don't know if Horus ever did that sort of teaching. But other sources clearly have. The Golden Rule did not originate with Jesus:

There are quite a few examples here:

Golden Rule - Wikipedia

Was Jesus ahead of other Jewish teaching at that time? Yes, I will grant that. Was he revolutionary? No. But he did have some very good basic beliefs.

 

[Audie]

I think everything Jesus says in the Bible, is special and more advanced than anyone else has said. But one example is:

But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
Mat. 5:44-45

Did Horus say anything meaningful? Perhaps someone should now go and manufacture intelligent teachings to Horus so that he would not look so lame?

The sayings of "Jesus" are not in any particular
way different from the folk wisdom of many
if not most other countries. Nothing at all that
is unique.

Dont bother to ask me about horus, that is not
my deal.

But it is very ignorant to think that Jesus came
wit h some special unique wisdom. IF he did,
nobody now knows what it was.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Luke's nativity is obviously mythical. He gives a ten year time span for Jesus's birth alone.

I was surprised that you didn't have a problem with the angels or anything.

I'm sorry... I read Luke 1-2. They mentioned the time that Caesar Augustus said the world should be taxed. My Church I think believes that Jesus was born between 4-7 B.C. In 4 B.C. modern astronomers have noticed there was a bright star in the sky. This also allows for the Passover to be on Friday when Jesus was crucified which doesn't work in 33 A.D. because then the passover wasn't on Friday.

So where are the two dates that don't work together?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I was surprised that you didn't have a problem with the angels or anything.

I'm sorry... I read Luke 1-2. They mentioned the time that Caesar Augustus said the world should be taxed. My Church I think believes that Jesus was born between 4-7 B.C. In 4 B.C. modern astronomers have noticed there was a bright star in the sky. This also allows for the Passover to be on Friday when Jesus was crucified which doesn't work in 33 A.D. because then the passover wasn't on Friday.

So where are the two dates that don't work together?

And Augustus Caesar never made a empire wide census. That was wrong. Your church goes contrary to the Gospel of Luke. He places it clearly in 6 AD. And let's not forget that the Gospel of John has a different time of the crucifixion than the other three. And since Luke and Matthew were largely copies of Mark that they would have the same date is understandable.

 

[sealchan]

I think everything Jesus says in the Bible, is special and more advanced than anyone else has said. But one example is:

But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
Mat. 5:44-45

Did Horus say anything meaningful? Perhaps someone should now go and manufacture intelligent teachings to Horus so that he would not look so lame?

In another Googlable post...
Loving your enemy in Buddhism

Here is another more expansive comparison...
Parallel philosophies of Lord Krishna and Jesus Christ

Given Matthew's apparent basic knowledge of Buddhism I suspect an inspirational relationship between the Beatitudes and the Eightfold Path .

 

[ChristineM]

But how can it be known? Why should I believe that?

Egyptian religious belief was just as valid as any other religious belief, you can believe whatever you want.

 

[robocop (actually)]

And Augustus Caesar never made a empire wide census. That was wrong. Your church goes contrary to the Gospel of Luke. He places it clearly in 6 AD. And let's not forget that the Gospel of John has a different time of the crucifixion than the other three. And since Luke and Matthew were largely copies of Mark that they would have the same date is understandable.

Luke has Jesus’ birth in 6 AD when Quirinius was governor of Syria, while Matthew has it before 4 BC when Herod died. How do you resolve this apparent contradiction? | Evidence for Christianity

That's not so difficult for me and I don't think I need to look at other sites. But I still challenge you to try theistic reasoning. I like 4 BC. Maybe the Census was in 8 BC and it was just a rough recording. Isn't that sufficient? You may try again or rebut me.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Luke has Jesus’ birth in 6 AD when Quirinius was governor of Syria, while Matthew has it before 4 BC when Herod died. How do you resolve this apparent contradiction? | Evidence for Christianity

That's not so difficult for me and I don't think I need to look at other sites. But I still challenge you to try theistic reasoning. I like 4 BC. Maybe the Census was in 8 BC and it was just a rough recording. Isn't that sufficient? You may try again or rebut me.

Aah, a lying source. They got quite a bit wrong, starting with the fact that a census in Judah would not have occurred under Herod. It was not part of the empire proper until after they took over Judah from Herod's son.

If you want to refute my claim you cannot do so with an apologetics site. You need a site that relies on real history.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Aah, a lying source. They got quite a bit wrong, starting with the fact that a census in Judah would not have occurred under Herod. It was not part of the empire proper until after they took over Judah from Herod's son.

If you want to refute my claim you cannot do so with an apologetics site. You need a site that relies on real history.

Alright, done. I still think the Bible has value in theistic reasoning though.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Alright, done. I still think the Bible has value in theistic reasoning though.

Do you realize how you utterly failed? I could support my claims with valid sources, actual historians who care about what really happened, but since you used such a low grade source my word alone is enough. Also you in effect make any claims of historicity of Jesus false since you are denying the work of the very historians that Christians rely upon for those claims. You only supported my claim that "theistic reasoning" is faulty.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Aah, a lying source. They got quite a bit wrong, starting with the fact that a census in Judah would not have occurred under Herod. It was not part of the empire proper until after they took over Judah from Herod's son.

If you want to refute my claim you cannot do so with an apologetics site. You need a site that relies on real history.

And my religion believes that even the ancient prophets messed things up. Maybe Luke just messed up. That other website said he got most of his facts straight very well.

 

[Audie]

Do you realize how you utterly failed? I could support my claims with valid sources, actual historians who care about what really happened, but since you used such a low grade source my word alone is enough. Also you in effect make any claims of historicity of Jesus false since you are denying the work of the very historians that Christians rely upon for those claims. You only supported my claim that "theistic reasoning" is faulty.

Be nice now, robo is my friend.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Be nice now, robo is my friend.

Okay, I will gladly give him reliable history based sources that show how the claims of the apologetics site are wrong if he asks. I tend to despise apologetics sites since their job is to lie for Jesus if necessary. I would much rather trust people whose only interest is to accurately find out what happened in the past.

 

[Audie]

Okay, I will gladly give him reliable history based sources that show how the claims of the apologetics site are wrong if he asks. I tend to despise apologetics sites since their job is to lie for Jesus if necessary. I would much rather trust people whose only interest is to accurately find out what happened in the past.

Just so you understand that I will get you if
I have to.