Moral Nihilism

[Audie]

IMO, that's what folks do anyway. They feel something is right and that's how they act. Even if it is to act according to a set of laws, it's because they feel it is the right thing to do.

I do a lot of things that I do not happen to feel like doing.

 

[Nakosis]

Free to do that you are, but not so free about
the consequences.

Again true of everything we do. Moral choices based on whatever you feel they are/should be based on have consequences. The consequences generally plays a big part in why you feel something is right/wrong to do.

 

[Revoltingest]

I do a lot of things that I do not happen to feel like doing.

Or perhaps you do things you feel like doing, but are conflicted?

 

[Nakosis]

I do a lot of things that I do not happen to feel like doing.

Then you must have conflicting feelings I suspect. It's probably not something you enjoy doing but feel you will not enjoy consequences of not doing the action even more.

 

[Nakosis]

Dont you think there is a middle way?
Nor do I think one should properly do just
whatev suits them at the moment.

I understand you feel that way, so act according to your feelings. Also you may or may not know why you feel this way. Could be cultural, experiential, or I suspect even genetic.

 

[Nakosis]

I do a lot of things that I do not happen to feel like doing.

Like what for example? May be best to deal with a specific example than to talk in generalities.

 

[Audie]

I understand you feel that way, so act according to your feelings. Also you may or may not know why you feel this way. Could be cultural, experiential, or I suspect even genetic.

Now we are wandering off into equivocation I suppose.

As long as you can successfully make decisions of right and
wrong that are as objectively based as you can make them,
not thinking only of yourself,all should be as well as one
can make them.

As for myself, for sure a lot of cultural conditioning
on matters of duty and responsibility.

 

[Audie]

Like what for example? May be best to deal with a specific example than to talk in generalities.

Perhaps t he generalities in my post above say enough.
Duties, responsibilities.

 

[Nakosis]

Perhaps t he generalities in my post above say enough.
Duties, responsibilities.

Which you feel you have. So we are not yet clear of your feelings.

 

[Audie]

Or perhaps you do things you feel like doing, but are conflicted?

If I would like to do something, but it is some way wrong-
like thinking only of myself in some situation where I
have a duty to others, it is not really a conflict, because
the course is clear, the shame great if I failed.

 

[Audie]

Which you feel you have. So we are not yet clear of your feelings.

You evidently use the word in a broader context than
I do.

 

[Nakosis]

Now we are wandering off into equivocation I suppose.

As long as you can successfully make decisions of right and
wrong that are as objectively based as you can make them,
not thinking only of yourself,all should be as well as one
can make them.

As for myself, for sure a lot of cultural conditioning
on matters of duty and responsibility.

Feelings are not about just feeling good. They are also about avoiding feeling bad. What happen if you don't fulfill what you see as your obligations? Then you will feel bad about yourself?

So sure you often do what you don't enjoy doing because not doing them will make you feel bad. Avoiding feeling bad often outweighs feeling good in your decision making.

 

[Nakosis]

If I would like to do something, but it is some way wrong-
like thinking only of myself in some situation where I
have a duty to others, it is not really a conflict, because
the course is clear, the shame great if I failed.

Exactly, you will feel shame. So to avoid feeling shame you do something that you wouldn't otherwise enjoy. Or you don't do an action to avoid feeling shame.

Shame is a feeling. The feeling of shame or it's avoidance is causing you moral choice.

 

[Audie]

Feelings are not about just feeling good. They are also about avoiding feeling bad. What happen if you don't fulfill what you see as your obligations? Then you will feel bad about yourself?

So sure you often do what you don't enjoy doing because not doing them will make you feel bad. Avoiding feeling bad often outweighs feeling good in your decision making.

I try to make my decisions as a best match to what is
right, without regard for my feelings.

Shame results from failure, at least for
anyone but a sociopath.
Feeling good may be a by product, but it is not the
motive;

 

[Nakosis]

You evidently use the word in a broader context than
I do.

Do you think joy is the only feeling you have? What range of feelings do you think is involved in your decision making?

All of your responses are a result of a feeling, an emotion.

This is my problem, I recognize the various emotions behind my more choices. I think others need to justify their choices to not be emotion based. Sense of duty... Ok, why do you have a sense of duty? Because you will feel shame do to have one?

I just look beyond all of the justifications we tell ourselves, think we ought to have because we might feel unhappy with ourselves not to.

 

[Audie]

Do you think joy is the only feeling you have? What range of feelings do you think is involved in your decision making?

All of your responses are a result of a feeling, an emotion.

This is my problem, I recognize the various emotions behind my more choices. I think others need to justify their choices to not be emotion based. Sense of duty... Ok, why do you have a sense of duty? Because you will feel shame do to have one?

I just look beyond all of the justifications we tell ourselves, think we ought to have because we might feel unhappy with ourselves not to.

No, my sense of duty is what I was taught.
Not indoctrinated in it, not memorizing.

I accepted what I did because it makes sense.

Because you will feel shame do to have one?

I have no idea what that means.

I try to do right because it is my understanding that
it is right. Not my feeling. There is a difference.

It might be that if we kept it up all night
we'd end up finding out we think pretty much the
same, for all that we might phrase things differently.

I think I will leave it at that. I wont convince you
of anything. Nor likely you, me-the more so
if we dont actually disagree.

 

[Revoltingest]

If I would like to do something, but it is some way wrong-
like thinking only of myself in some situation where I
have a duty to others, it is not really a conflict, because
the course is clear, the shame great if I failed.

A duty felt.

 

[Nakosis]

A duty felt.

It's just funny trying to get over this objection to feelings.
IMO the justification of it being duty comes after the fact of feeling what's right.
Folks are taught that decisions based on feelings are wrong, immoral. It's taboo.

Folks are afraid, probably, to look past the justification.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's just funny trying to get over this objection to feelings.
IMO the justification of it being duty comes after the fact of feeling what's right.
Folks are taught that decisions based on feelings are wrong, immoral. It's taboo.

Folks are afraid, probably, to look past the justification.

I think it arises in the phenomenon of some people eschewing
rational thought in favor of feelings poorly understood.

 

[Audie]

A duty felt.

I thought one "feeling" equivocationalist
quite enough.

Yeah, I know, you feel that I felt that way.

Ya chomper of rancid sheep-lungs.