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Brickjectivity

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Jos said:
Where does it suggest that? And also having multiple interpretations can lead to contradictory positions
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True friendship is stronger than disagreements. Its very difficult introducing you to this topic, so I am going to list some verses which inspire me about this. James says that we quarrel because of pride, and he and others say that general all human speech is flawed. I perceive a doctrine that our ideas are lower than God's truth and that we are all equally liars compared with God, so there is not only occasional contradictory positions but continual contradictions between us until we die. At the same time we are supposed to try to understand, however multiple interpretations are expected.
  • Proverbs 17:17 "A friend loves at all times, and a brother is born for a time of adversity."
  • 1 John 1:9-10 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."
  • Romans 3:2-5 "Much in every way! First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God. What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written: 'So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.' "
  • Romans 3:11 "...there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God..."
  • 1 Corinthians 8:1 "...knowledge puffs up, but love builds up..."
  • 1 Peter 2:15 "For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people."
Those are some favorites, but there are at least 30 more like them. Multiple interpretations ought to be expected and allowed for. It seems that very strictly the NT teaches what matters is how you live not what you know or agree about. In general preachers do not like this, because it tends to threaten their jobs. Politicians also don't find it convenient. What they find convenient are squabbling Christians.

Jos said:
It seems like a covenant to me. Why protect the Israelites for centuries if they weren't His chosen people
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Clearly they were not protected and suffered harm. There are two interpretations or more of why. One of them is in Job.
 
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J

Jos

Well-Known Member
InChrist said:
I agree, this world is messed up and I don't like the way things are, but I do trust God's love and ultimate plan and purpose to bring about final goodness, peace, and victory over sin and evil, don't you?

...it is written:

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” 1 Cor. 2:9
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IDK who to trust... I wish I was never broken like this in the first place... I don't want to be broken then fixed. Also God doesn't need me, so that just adds to the frustration of why I'm here.
 
InChrist

InChrist

Free4ever
Jos said:
IDK who to trust... I wish I was never broken like this in the first place... I don't want to be broken then fixed. Also God doesn't need me, so that just adds to the frustration of why I'm here.
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Well, I can understand your frustration, but since we are all broken and selfish and do sinful, harmful things, why not trust Jesus who offers to save us and give new life and hope, now and for eternity? My life was sure messed up until Jesus changed me and turned everything around. Maybe God doesn't need you, but He desires you to live with Him forever...who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth...(1 Timothy 2:4).

Isn't that even better...He LOVES you?
 
J

Jos

Well-Known Member
InChrist said:
Well, I can understand your frustration, but since we are all broken and selfish and do sinful, harmful things, why not trust Jesus who offers to save us and give new life and hope, now and for eternity? My life was sure messed up until Jesus changed me and turned everything around. Maybe God doesn't need you, but He desires you to live with Him forever...who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth...(1 Timothy 2:4).

Isn't that even better...He LOVES you?
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Yeah but why desire me when He could have created a trillion other humans and desired them instead? And I don't get why God wants to have humans as children when He was already in a perfect relationship as a Father to a Son in Jesus through the Trinity?
 
J

Jos

Well-Known Member
InChrist said:
Well, I can understand your frustration, but since we are all broken and selfish and do sinful, harmful things, why not trust Jesus who offers to save us and give new life and hope, now and for eternity? My life was sure messed up until Jesus changed me and turned everything around. Maybe God doesn't need you, but He desires you to live with Him forever...who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth...(1 Timothy 2:4).

Isn't that even better...He LOVES you?
Click to expand...
I don't care about love anymore, I realized that the only way to be happy is to have never existed at all...Now I know you're probably thinking but if there is no you existing then you can't be happy, in other words, no person around to exist means no soul or no brain with senses to experience happiness... fair enough, it doesn't make sense but hear me out. If you don't exist, you'll have no fears or worries, you'll never have to be concerned about death, you won't have any wants/desires or needs andyou'll never not be fulfilled, no regrets etc. but then I can imagine you're probably saying that you'll miss out on the joys of existence but those joys are fleeting and given that we live in an unequal world, some people live long and relatively happy lives while others live long and suffer, die young and but happy or die young but still suffer and if you exist it'll basically be a gamble and you won't miss out on anything since there wouldn't have been a you around in the first place... but anyway, given that humans have a seemingly infinite capacity for wants, fulfillment etc, if one never existed then one wouldn't have to deal with any of it.
 
dfnj

dfnj

Well-Known Member
Jos said:
First question for people of a Christian persuasion:
Why did God create anything at all if He existed by Himself in perfect relationship as a Holy Trinity having everything He would ever want or need?
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Not a Christian but here is my answer based on years of thinking about this very question. Being omnipotent is very boring. You know all the spoilers. So the reason why our omnipotent God created human beings is so God can experience the thrill of having limitations by sharing in our experiences of joys and suffering. I am not saying joy and suffering are equal in the eyes of God. What I think God prefers is a reflection of what we prefer. In other words, most non psychopaths prefer the golden rule over wanton or random violence against each other. Our morality in general is a reflection of what God prefers. However, in order to realize God's omnipotence, every possible experience man is capable of having will eventually be experienced. If you believe in the many worlds interpretations of quantum physics then there's plenty of time for God to realize every possible choice we are capable of making along with all the resulting lifetime implications
 
J

Jos

Well-Known Member
dfnj said:
Not a Christian but here is my answer based on years of thinking about this very question. Being omnipotent is very boring. You know all the spoilers. So the reason why our omnipotent God created human beings is so God can experience the thrill of having limitations by sharing in our experiences of joys and suffering. I am not saying joy and suffering are equal in the eyes of God. What I think God prefers is a reflection of what we prefer. In other words, most non psychopaths prefer the golden rule over wanton or random violence against each other. Our morality in general is a reflection of what God prefers. However, in order to realize God's omnipotence, every possible experience man is capable of having will eventually be experienced. If you believe in the many worlds interpretations of quantum physics then there's plenty of time for God to realize every possible choice we are capable of making along with all the resulting lifetime implications
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If God gets bored just from being Himself then He isn't the ultimate source of fulfillment and if He actually is omnipotent then He can will Himself to be the ultimate source of within Himself or find fulfillment without creating others and not have to rely on others. It also makes God look bad since He finds nothing wrong with bringing a world into existence where people suffer in unimaginable ways and sees nothing wrong with their circumstances.
 
InChrist

InChrist

Free4ever
Jos said:
I don't care about love anymore, I realized that the only way to be happy is to have never existed at all...Now I know you're probably thinking but if there is no you existing then you can't be happy, in other words, no person around to exist means no soul or no brain with senses to experience happiness... fair enough, it doesn't make sense but hear me out. If you don't exist, you'll have no fears or worries, you'll never have to be concerned about death, you won't have any wants/desires or needs andyou'll never not be fulfilled, no regrets etc. but then I can imagine you're probably saying that you'll miss out on the joys of existence but those joys are fleeting and given that we live in an unequal world, some people live long and relatively happy lives while others live long and suffer, die young and but happy or die young but still suffer and if you exist it'll basically be a gamble and you won't miss out on anything since there wouldn't have been a you around in the first place... but anyway, given that humans have a seemingly infinite capacity for wants, fulfillment etc, if one never existed then one wouldn't have to deal with any of it.
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Okay, thanks for sharing your thoughts. But such ideas are merely hypothetical because the fact is that you do exist and thinking about having never come into existence doesn't change or deal with reality in any kind of reasonable way. How can you say you don't care about love anymore? I'd say that the Bible reveals we were created for relational love. It is the essence of our being and we are actually dependent on God's love, whether we realize it or not. Have you been hurt by someone you loved to cause you to feel you don't care about love?
 
J

Jos

Well-Known Member
InChrist said:
Okay, thanks for sharing your thoughts. But such ideas are merely hypothetical because the fact is that you do exist and thinking about having never come into existence doesn't change or deal with reality in any kind of reasonable way. How can you say you don't care about love anymore? I'd say that the Bible reveals we were created for relational love. It is the essence of our being and we are actually dependent on God's love, whether we realize it or not. Have you been hurt by someone you loved to cause you to feel you don't care about love?
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I appreciate the concern but I haven't been hurt by anyone... I just came to realize over time that life is meaningless and that I hate my existence.
 
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