Russians Undermining our Democracy or Americans conducting a "Small Experiment"

[Stanyon]

So which is it?

 

[Orbit]

Conducting a small experiment in what? Dictatorship?

 

[YmirGF]

So which is it?

I think America is doing fabulously at undermining her own foundations, so who can blame any foreign power from doing what America has done for most of her history?

 

[Ellen Brown]

All that instant electronic communication is what is undermining society. Before, someone in Romania could not have had an effect on anything in America.

AND, now days, Cell Phone texting is far more important than face to face talking. Video Games, Sitcoms, and movies for the pre-pubescent are more important than studying the issues that are important. America is on the way out, and those who hate us will be happy to pick our bones.

 

[stvdv]

All that instant electronic communication is what is undermining society

Very true. On personal level computers (devices) have a big impact. But on worldly scale the impact is even more. I just saw a video that in the year 2020 all cities in China will be fully monitored by cameras on every corner. Granting positive points when acting in accordance to the government and negative points when going against (resulting in banned from travelling even; no buses, trains). All possible because of computers.

Big Brother prophecy almost completed it seems. Democracy seems to be gone pretty soon. Unless all people vote for such a system of course.

So my feeling is that computer will take us down a "bad road" and it goes fast. I also didn't know Swedisch people were already Micro-chipped

 

[sun rise]

Americas ideals as spelled out in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution's Preamble as well as in many other places is being threatened by autocrats abroad as well as the would-be autocrat in the White House.

As Abraham Lincoln said: "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

And: "The shepherd drives the wolf from the sheep's for which the sheep thanks the shepherd as his liberator, while the wolf denounces him for the same act as the destroyer of liberty. Plainly, the sheep and the wolf are not agreed upon a definition of liberty."

And, from the Gettysburg Address: "we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

So I too don't care if a "small experiment" in autocratic rule is home grown or, as the evidence points to, "aided" in part by Russia and other such actors. I care that the current regime be stopped in its efforts to undermine freedom and to spread fear and hatred. And thus I stand with George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and all true patriots to assert and affirm that America has an amazingly positive destiny to fulfill.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Conducting a small experiment in what? Dictatorship?

That must be California or New York.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I think America is doing fabulously at undermining her own foundations, so who can blame any foreign power from doing what America has done for most of her history?

I have to agree much to my dismay when I saw a documentary today.

The national debt had started with President Washington with us owing France big time.

 

[columbus]

And: "The shepherd drives the wolf from the sheep's for which the sheep thanks the shepherd as his liberator, while the wolf denounces him for the same act as the destroyer of liberty. Plainly, the sheep and the wolf are not agreed upon a definition of liberty."

What's really amusing about this is that the shepherd and the wolf have the same goal.
The shepherd is just better at achieving the goal.

Sometimes.
Tom

 

[sun rise]

I have to agree much to my dismay when I saw a documentary today.

The national debt had started with President Washington with us owing France big time.

Outside of wartime, if we look at the history of the past few decades, Democrats have done a much better job of reducing growth in the deficit compared to Republicans. We see what happened with the last national tax cut - an exploding deficit. Before that, cutting taxes was tried in Kansas and failed miserably. But I've yet to see a Republican say that it was a good idea but does not work. What happens is a doubling down on the proven false idea that cutting taxes reduces the deficit.

If there was a proposal about really cutting both taxes and spending at the same time, then we could see what was the entire idea. But from history I conclude that Republicans won't really push for cutting spending because they'd be tossed out of office in numbers that would make the last House election look like a walk in the park.

 

[Ellen Brown]

At times I have heard things about "The Seven Families" that supposedly rule the Earth. My own conclusion is that it is carefully concealed or pure nonsense.

However, in my 72 years,I have seen lots of things happen that don't make sense to me.

 

[whirlingmerc]

So which is it?

Interestingly the highest priority of the communist party in the 80's was getting Bill Clinton elected and no one raised concerns of foreign meddling when he won. Seems truly off they might back Bill and oppose Hillary.... why do they think they switched donkeys/horses over the decades?

Since 1988 the Communist party in the US decided to no longer run their own candidates because they felt it more efficient to achieve their goals through the democratic party, making it make even less sense they wanted Trump in office.

 

[sun rise]

Interestingly the highest priority of the communist party in the 80's was getting Bill Clinton elected and no one raised concerns of foreign meddling when he won. Seems truly off they might back Bill and oppose Hillary.... why do they think they switched donkeys/horses over the decades?

Since 1988 the Communist party in the US decided to no longer run their own candidates because they felt it more efficient to achieve their goals through the democratic party, making it make even less sense they wanted Trump in office.

That's a nice fantasy from the right but devoid of facts.

 

[whirlingmerc]

That's a nice fantasy from the right but devoid of facts.

Seems it's not

Communist Party endorses Hillary Clinton |

and

Not a Surprise: Communist Party USA will Push Candidates as Democrats


From IJReview:

Communist Party USA (CPUSA) has recently penned a 2,023-page open letter expressing its eagerness and enthusiasm on getting to work with the Democratic Party to “advance the modern communist agenda and achieve communist goals.”


Tactics and the 2016 elections
From being on the margins, socialism is part of the discussion, although how much remains to be seen. 52% of Democratic voters have no problem with it.

 

[Shad]

If there was a proposal about really cutting both taxes and spending at the same time, then we could see what was the entire idea. But from history I conclude that Republicans won't really push for cutting spending because they'd be tossed out of office in numbers that would make the last House election look like a walk in the park.

The GOP give up balancing the budget and reducing debt long ago. It is nothing more than a platform lie these days.

 

[Shad]

Interestingly the highest priority of the communist party in the 80's was getting Bill Clinton elected and no one raised concerns of foreign meddling when he won. Seems truly off they might back Bill and oppose Hillary.... why do they think they switched donkeys/horses over the decades?

Western communism split from the established forms in nation states in the 70s once knowledge of communist massacres become more public. Toss in ivory tower nonsense of "I can do X better" and "that is not true communism"

Since 1988 the Communist party in the US decided to no longer run their own candidates because they felt it more efficient to achieve their goals through the democratic party, making it make even less sense they wanted Trump in office.

See above. Although the use of the Dems is true as per Cortez.

 

[whirlingmerc]

The GOP give up balancing the budget and reducing debt long ago. It is nothing more than a platform lie these days.

Yahoo answes brought up that

The last Socialist party candidate for President of the US, Norman Thomas, he was a six time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party, said this in a 1944 speech:

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of "liberalism" they will adopt every fragment of the socialist platform until one day America will be a socialist nation without knowing how it happened. "

and why would the Union of Socialist Soviet Republic want to undermine that by passing over Hillary? sounds contrived

 

[Shad]

Yahoo answes brought up that

The last Socialist party candidate for President of the US, Norman Thomas, he was a six time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party, said this in a 1944 speech:

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of "liberalism" they will adopt every fragment of the socialist platform until one day America will be a socialist nation without knowing how it happened. "

and why would the Union of Socialist Soviet Republic want to undermine that by passing over Hillary? sounds contrived

I never challenged that point. I pointed out there was a split between the nation-states established forms and the western movements. After all a body count of millions does damage to an image. Ergo "That isn't communism!" "I can do X better from my tower"

 

[whirlingmerc]

I never challenged that point. I pointed out there was a split between the nation-states established forms and the western movements. After all a body count of millions does damage to an image. Ergo "That isn't communism!" "I can do X better from my tower"

I don't endorse many of the choices either side make myself and think Trump should reign in the undiplomatic talk and focus on policy - but I did hold my nose and voted for him

 

[Revoltingest]

Outside of wartime, if we look at the history of the past few decades, Democrats have done a much better job of reducing growth in the deficit compared to Republicans.

That's a pretty convenient "outside of", given the Democrats' penchant for useless
wars rivals the Republicans. But another wrinkle is that when Bill Clinton saw fiscal
improvement, this was with help from Newt Gingrich & the Contract With Americastan.
Neither party should be trusted to reduce the deficit or debt.