Jesus genes

[Muffled]

How did you arrive to that conclusion biblically?

Incarnations aren't always the same as humans only by flesh. The nature of the incarnation isn't defined in the word. Since jesus has no female chromosone, it doesn't sound like he is human like us. If we take after Adam and jesus, why would we have male chromosones?



That is magic. It is performing an action against or contrary to the laws of nature.

I believe I derived it from the use of the word "conception." A conception requires female and male chromosomes to unite into a new being. Since there was no male chromosomes present then they had to be created.

I believe that statement is not true.

I believe Jesus appeared to be human. Certainly there are statements that He is one and his own statement that he is a son of man. However in creation God can make those male chromosomes to be anything he wants.

I take it that you mean a collective "we" but I consider myself to not be of the Adamic (Human) race but of the Caucasian race. I have a few Neanderthal genes and likely a few Adamic genes but the majority of my genes are Caucasian. BTW Adam and Jesus were males so they would have male chromosomes. I am male so that is true of me also.

 

[BilliardsBall]

And? i told you I am biting the bullet. For sake of discussion, that is the impression of the body of an executed man in the first century wearing a crown of thorns or whatever.

So what?

Ciao

- viole

What natural process would create a body impression, with a depth requiring an electron microscope to discern, but which also extrapolates in 3D perfectly at a zero ecliptic, and is covering microscopic fibers utterly/alternately, like a binary code 0-1-0-1-0-1?

 

[BilliardsBall]

He's a hermaphrodite?

Jesus if the Shroud is accurate had XX. You said a man without XY isn't human. Currently, there are hermaphroditic humans with XYX.

 

[viole]

What natural process would create a body impression, with a depth requiring an electron microscope to discern, but which also extrapolates in 3D perfectly at a zero ecliptic, and is covering microscopic fibers utterly/alternately, like a binary code 0-1-0-1-0-1?

At a zero elliptic? What on earth are you talking about?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Jesus if the Shroud is accurate had XX. You said a man without XY isn't human. Currently, there are hermaphroditic humans with XYX.

How is he shroud with XX? You said a man can have XXX genes as a hemapherite. If jesus is human he would need to be that or not human at all.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I believe I derived it from the use of the word "conception." A conception requires female and male chromosomes to unite into a new being. Since there was no male chromosomes present then they had to be created.

I believe that statement is not true.

I believe Jesus appeared to be human. Certainly there are statements that He is one and his own statement that he is a son of man. However in creation God can make those male chromosomes to be anything he wants.

I take it that you mean a collective "we" but I consider myself to not be of the Adamic (Human) race but of the Caucasian race. I have a few Neanderthal genes and likely a few Adamic genes but the majority of my genes are Caucasian. BTW Adam and Jesus were males so they would have male chromosomes. I am male so that is true of me also.

Appear to be human? Was he?

If he were male, he would need both male and female genes. If he appears to be a man, what is he actually?

 

[BilliardsBall]

At a zero elliptic? What on earth are you talking about?

Ciao

- viole

Sorry, I meant toward an ecliptic. The 3D projection of the image of the shroud, taken in reverse, means it wasn't a painting. There is no perspective change, no anamorphic view. It's as if the body beneath the shroud beamed light or radiation to make the image--the closest analogy scientists have put forth so far to guess how it was made.

 

[BilliardsBall]

How is he shroud with XX? You said a man can have XXX genes as a hemapherite. If jesus is human he would need to be that or not human at all.

We can only conjecture here. My thought was, "God is showing that though a baby's blood system is genetically formed by two human parents, and the baby's blood is separate from the mother's, just like the baby's chromosomes, I'll make Jesus with XX chromosomes, to show He came from a woman, and me, not a human man."

Jesus was a full human and fully God. A full human isn't limited to XX or XY only, and if you limit there, XX is still human, fully. You may have the last word here.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We can only conjecture here. My thought was, "God is showing that though a baby's blood system is genetically formed by two human parents,

and the baby's blood is separate from the mother's, just like the baby's chromosomes,

I'll make Jesus with XX chromosomes, to show He came from a woman, and me, not a human man."

Jesus was a full human and fully God. A full human isn't limited to XX or XY only, and if you limit there, XX is still human, fully. You may have the last word here.

Well. Conversations come through clarifications and interdialogue not who has the last word. If you cut off conversations when they get intense, how do you debate new things?

So.....In other words (after disecting your post to understand it), because he is fully god he doesnt need XY chromose since he is his own person seperate from his mother as a person without a dad???

I am asking for clarification. I hate cut off conversations. They lead me more confused than when I started. I rather have a full conversation or none at all.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I believe I derived it from the use of the word "conception." A conception requires female and male chromosomes to unite into a new being. Since there was no male chromosomes present then they had to be created.

I believe that statement is not true.

I believe Jesus appeared to be human. Certainly there are statements that He is one and his own statement that he is a son of man. However in creation God can make those male chromosomes to be anything he wants.

I take it that you mean a collective "we" but I consider myself to not be of the Adamic (Human) race but of the Caucasian race. I have a few Neanderthal genes and likely a few Adamic genes but the majority of my genes are Caucasian. BTW Adam and Jesus were males so they would have male chromosomes. I am male so that is true of me also.

This is a bit off topic. Between AD 27-39 (as per quick research of just teaching period) and now CE (if I got that correct) in regards to whether a male can only have male chromosons from a miracle which is not possible today?

I wonder if we took you and put you in that time period, would you, as you kow life now, believe in someone not having XY chromosones? What would medical knowledge would be falsified once you see women can be born without a man?

@BilliardsBall

How would you guys medical knowelge change if you were transported back then to find people can be born without their fathers?

 

[viole]

Sorry, I meant toward an ecliptic. The 3D projection of the image of the shroud, taken in reverse, means it wasn't a painting. There is no perspective change, no anamorphic view. It's as if the body beneath the shroud beamed light or radiation to make the image--the closest analogy scientists have put forth so far to guess how it was made.

A dead Jesus with abnormally elongated arms that cover His genitals while dead? Looks like the author of that was more concern of censorship than plausibility.

Don’t you think so?

Ciao

- viole

 

[BilliardsBall]

Well. Conversations come through clarifications and interdialogue not who has the last word. If you cut off conversations when they get intense, how do you debate new things?

So.....In other words (after disecting your post to understand it), because he is fully god he doesnt need XY chromose since he is his own person seperate from his mother as a person without a dad???

I am asking for clarification. I hate cut off conversations. They lead me more confused than when I started. I rather have a full conversation or none at all.

I've noted that the blood on the Turin Shroud, which I believe authentic, is XX chromosomal. It's also the type that is the universal donor type! Nice.

The XX speaks to me, my opinion only, not a stated fact, that Jesus was human by a mother, not a father, fulfilling prophecy.

I didn't say "He's fully God so He can have different chromosomes." I think it's a chromosomal witness.

"You may have the last word", in context, most of the time I use it on RF.com, means "I'm tired of arguing a non-important point." I think even Jesus being fully human and fully God is less important that clarity of the gospel, although the Bible seems to indicate people are in grave trouble who deny the godhood of Jesus Christ.

 

[BilliardsBall]

This is a bit off topic. Between AD 27-39 (as per quick research of just teaching period) and now CE (if I got that correct) in regards to whether a male can only have male chromosons from a miracle which is not possible today?

I wonder if we took you and put you in that time period, would you, as you kow life now, believe in someone not having XY chromosones? What would medical knowledge would be falsified once you see women can be born without a man?

@BilliardsBall

How would you guys medical knowelge change if you were transported back then to find people can be born without their fathers?

It would not. The virgin birth of a human male is a miracle. Other species can have spontaneous births. A possible spontaneous female birth would be of a female child.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It would not. The virgin birth of a human male is a miracle. Other species can have spontaneous births. A possible spontaneous female birth would be of a female child.

We, medically, can have the same event here and now?

Is it possible for god to work miracles now as he did then?

If yes, would he need to change laws of physics in order to do miracles or are we not living in a material world?

....I don't know how to explain it.

It's like magic happening then and then gradually, after the church, the miracles started to become more abstract and mystic/gnostic. When did paganism leave the Greek and Roman era to where we aren't still influenced by its views of human gods?

Human gods weren't in jewish teachings so, ......

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I believe I derived it from the use of the word "conception." A conception requires female and male chromosomes to unite into a new being. Since there was no male chromosomes present then they had to be created.

I believe that statement is not true.

I believe Jesus appeared to be human. Certainly there are statements that He is one and his own statement that he is a son of man. However in creation God can make those male chromosomes to be anything he wants.

I take it that you mean a collective "we" but I consider myself to not be of the Adamic (Human) race but of the Caucasian race. I have a few Neanderthal genes and likely a few Adamic genes but the majority of my genes are Caucasian. BTW Adam and Jesus were males so they would have male chromosomes. I am male so that is true of me also.

I can not understand you with the colors. This will be splattered because it will take me awhile to quote and discolor.

What do you mean by appeared to be human?

How does your being human and Caucasian relate to what we are talking about?

 

[BilliardsBall]

A dead Jesus with abnormally elongated arms that cover His genitals while dead? Looks like the author of that was more concern of censorship than plausibility.

Don’t you think so?

Ciao

- viole

1) Other subjects from the period have been found with the genitals covered in like manner. Yet another archaeological or scientific reason to believe the shroud.

2) The arms on the Shroud were elongated, pulled from their sockets, in the agony of the cross. Yet another archaeological or scientific reason to believe the shroud.

3) Will you address the issue? The image is not of Mary on a cereal flake. The image is of a 1st century Jewish, scourged, crucified, buried man, borne on ancient linen similar to other ANE linen extant, carrying Jerusalem thorn pollen on its surface, wearing a cap (not "crown") of thorns like a 1st century ANE potentate, with nails through His wrists and not hands, with the thumbs pulled back in rictus from the cross under the fingers, etc., etc. -- an image whose depth and specificity is only fully revealed using an electron microscope. It cannot be a painting or other forgery from ANY century, since modern man cannot duplicate the shroud. The best analogy scientists, not theologians, have made, is that the shroud was painted via light or radiation when the body beneath emitted such power.

Address the issue.

 

[BilliardsBall]

We, medically, can have the same event here and now?

Is it possible for god to work miracles now as he did then?

If yes, would he need to change laws of physics in order to do miracles or are we not living in a material world?

....I don't know how to explain it.

It's like magic happening then and then gradually, after the church, the miracles started to become more abstract and mystic/gnostic. When did paganism leave the Greek and Roman era to where we aren't still influenced by its views of human gods?

Human gods weren't in jewish teachings so, ......

Paganism, gnosticism and other influences on the church created cults and schisms. The NT warns against these specific ideas and schisms.

A human who is God is in Jewish teaching, in the Tanakh, for example, Isaiah says a child is born, a son is given, who is also the Everlasting Father and Mighty God.

 

[viole]

1) Other subjects from the period have been found with the genitals covered in like manner. Yet another archaeological or scientific reason to believe the shroud.

2) The arms on the Shroud were elongated, pulled from their sockets, in the agony of the cross. Yet another archaeological or scientific reason to believe the shroud.

3) Will you address the issue? The image is not of Mary on a cereal flake. The image is of a 1st century Jewish, scourged, crucified, buried man, borne on ancient linen similar to other ANE linen extant, carrying Jerusalem thorn pollen on its surface, wearing a cap (not "crown") of thorns like a 1st century ANE potentate, with nails through His wrists and not hands, with the thumbs pulled back in rictus from the cross under the fingers, etc., etc. -- an image whose depth and specificity is only fully revealed using an electron microscope. It cannot be a painting or other forgery from ANY century, since modern man cannot duplicate the shroud. The best analogy scientists, not theologians, have made, is that the shroud was painted via light or radiation when the body beneath emitted such power.

Address the issue.

Well, if you really insist. I did not want to break it for you, but if you really want.

The shroud of Turin authenticity had been debunked so many times, that listing them here will make this post longer than the Bible.

First of all dating methods point to a middle age forgery. Some say carbon dating is not reliable because of some burst of energy the picture experienced at resurrection , but it is a curious cohincidence that carbon dating corresponds to the first appearance of the shroud in Europe. At a time wihere such relics had high market value. So, where was it before? Not even your so called eye witnesses mention it in the Gospels. I mean, even the pope back then said explicetely that it was a fake.

Second, latest forensic analysis show clearly that the image cannot possibly be the one of a corpse laied doen on linen after a crucifixion and some wounds. Results have been published this years, and even bishops now openly admit it is a fake.

Third, that picture and energy things are easy to reproduce. All you need is a bit of white paint, a glass and enough sunshine for a couple of days. I believe it was even Christians that debunked the shroud by reproducing your amazing three dimentional stuff. After all, the sun provides enough radiation to create similar effects, and it was available in the middle age too, lol. Check Christianity Today for the details, or let me know, I have the link somewhere. I believe it was a father Brown who managed to reproduce what you are talking about by using things available at the time of the forgery.

So, since we have a chain of evidence that screams forgery all over the place, and that includes the work of Christians, plus the condemnation of bishops now and in the past together with the prudence of the whole Catholic church,...

How can you expect to convince rational skeptics?

Ciao

- viole

 

[BilliardsBall]

Well, if you really insist. I did not want to break it for you, but if you really want.

The shroud of Turin authenticity had been debunked so many times, that listing them here will make this post longer than the Bible.

First of all dating methods point to a middle age forgery. Some say carbon dating is not reliable because of some burst of energy the picture experienced at resurrection , but it is a curious cohincidence that carbon dating corresponds to the first appearance of the shroud in Europe. At a time wihere such relics had high market value. So, where was it before? Not even your so called eye witnesses mention it in the Gospels. I mean, even the pope back then said explicetely that it was a fake.

Second, latest forensic analysis show clearly that the image cannot possibly be the one of a corpse laied doen on linen after a crucifixion and some wounds. Results have been published this years, and even bishops now openly admit it is a fake.

Third, that picture and energy things are easy to reproduce. All you need is a bit of white paint, a glass and enough sunshine for a couple of days. I believe it was even Christians that debunked the shroud by reproducing your amazing three dimentional stuff. After all, the sun provides enough radiation to create similar effects, and it was available in the middle age too, lol. Check Christianity Today for the details, or let me know, I have the link somewhere. I believe it was a father Brown who managed to reproduce what you are talking about by using things available at the time of the forgery.

So, since we have a chain of evidence that screams forgery all over the place, and that includes the work of Christians, plus the condemnation of bishops now and in the past together with the prudence of the whole Catholic church,...

How can you expect to convince rational skeptics?

Ciao

- viole

Thank you for sharing, although you are closed-minded, since you offer rhetorical answers to your own questions. An open-minded skeptic would say, "what are your responses to these points"? Here they are anyway:

1) The carbon dating to the middle ages is unreliable, because the church had people take shroud samples from areas abutting the parts of the shroud burned in a fire in the middle ages. You can find more online regarding this fact and the controversy about the dating of the shroud to the ANE instead.

2) What forensic analysis are you speaking of? The shroud is perfect, anatomically speaking, to a crucifixion victim killed using ANE methods.

3) White paint, glass and sunshine will not color the fibers on an electron microscope level. Individual fibers at the microscopic level are completely, fully dark, adjacent to ones that are completely without coloration. Imagine a chessboard where the black squares have the shroud color, and the white squares are the original linen. The lines on the board are clean, without blurring. Now reduce the chessboard in size 10,000 times!

4) Your making an appeal to authority, like some Roman bishop, needs no response. I'm telling you tools of scientists, not theologians, verify the shroud...

"How can you expect to convince rational skeptics?"

Rational skeptical scientists have converted to Christianity based on their scientific shroud tests!

 

[viole]

Thank you for sharing, although you are closed-minded, since you offer rhetorical answers to your own questions. An open-minded skeptic would say, "what are your responses to these points"? Here they are anyway:

1) The carbon dating to the middle ages is unreliable, because the church had people take shroud samples from areas abutting the parts of the shroud burned in a fire in the middle ages. You can find more online regarding this fact and the controversy about the dating of the shroud to the ANE instead.

Funny though, that the measured age corrsponds to the first report of that artifact. Amazing coincidence.

2) What forensic analysis are you speaking of? The shroud is perfect, anatomically speaking, to a crucifixion victim killed using ANE methods.

What? It came out a few months ago. Check it out, or ask me for the link if you dont find it.

3) White paint, glass and sunshine will not color the fibers on an electron microscope level. Individual fibers at the microscopic level are completely, fully dark, adjacent to ones that are completely without coloration. Imagine a chessboard where the black squares have the shroud color, and the white squares are the original linen. The lines on the board are clean, without blurring. Now reduce the chessboard in size 10,000 times!

Well, of course it can. It is basic physics. And that is how it has been reproduced. The only critique is that in the middle age they did not have big enough glasses. Nothing of what you are saying.

4) Your making an appeal to authority, like some Roman bishop, needs no response. I'm telling you tools of scientists, not theologians, verify the shroud...

Well, yeah. If people would have all interest to say the shroud is authentic say it is not, then it is natural to be more than skeptic.

You do not even seem to agree among Christians about that. Which is embarrassing.

My personal suggestion is to come back to us when you have at least reached a basic consensus among your ranks.

"How can you expect to convince rational skeptics?"

Rational skeptical scientists have converted to Christianity based on their scientific shroud tests!

How many?

Ciao

- viole