Two approaches towards reforming Islam: the Bahai Faith and Ahmadiyya Islam.

[oldbadger]

Yes, I'd like examples. For example, my faith has practical methods to make life better, like calming techniques, methods to rid the mind of dross, arguments for not arguing, and a definite tangible mystic energy that just feels good. The practice is uplifting and incredibly practical.

Do you have a single word which means 'Way of Life'?
That word might fit better than 'Faith', possibly?

 

[oldbadger]

Learning to follow Bahá’u’lláh gives me encouragement and support in learning to be the kind of person I want to be. It has always guided me faithfully through the maze of conflicting and ever-shifting ideas and interests in the society around me. It helps me value and appreciate people and what they’re doing, and learn from them, across the widest ideological divides. It transports to me to a wonderful magical world of never-ending delightful discoveries, whenever I want to go there.

Following Bahauallah's guidance appears to be good for you.

What I think it’s doing for the world is helping to build the foundations of a worldwide civilization shining with peace, justice and prosperity; and at the same time helping to reduce and counteract the damage from natural disasters including the ones arising from human nature.

........ but this is where the World would suffer from it all.

ETA:
“Harmony and understanding, sympathy and trust abounding ... mystic crystal revelation, and the mind’s true liberation ...”

......... How much harmony and understanding have you discovered in those Bahai chat-places?

 

[Jedster]

In real life, how do we learn to trust others? I would say it is by their repeated trustworthy behaviour ... like if they promise to do something, they do it. That sort of thing. Trusting some historical figure that may or may not have existed, may or may not have been a reliable person, may or may not have spoken wisdom, now that's another matter entirely.

In most living traditions of SD, the teacher is alive today, and is the 'go to' source.

I can understand how having a living teacher outgrades having a dead one.
The main reason being that any seeker can question said teacher.
Those who just rely on books/scripture are just relying on hearsay.

 

[danieldemol]

I can understand how having a living teacher outgrades having a dead one.
The main reason being that any seeker can question said teacher.
Those who just rely on books/scripture are just relying on hearsay.

In the Baha’i faith there is a whole living team that one may send questions too, it is the Universal House of Justice, although the National Spiritual Assemblies can usually take care of most questions if one can’t be bothered waiting for a response from the far busier house of justice.

 

[Vinayaka]

What I think it’s doing for the world is helping to build the foundations of a worldwide civilization shining with peace, justice and prosperity; and at the same time helping to reduce and counteract the damage from natural disasters including the ones arising from human nature.

In my view, the Baha'i have done absolutely nothing to date that wasn't already being done by other people and groups. One common lament by ex-Baha'is on it was 'all talk and no action'. One fellow said that the only charity ever done at his LSA was maintaining a section of road, and that was only so they could get a sign up on the highway advertising it. Baha'i like to take credit where it isn't due, like having massive influence on Gandhi, King, and others, which is just false propaganda.

Individuals, however, may well be very charitable. We're not privy to the efforts of a generous humble anonymous donor. In my view, if you need to make noise about charity, then it's not real charity. It has strings attached.

There are many massive charities like Doctors without Borders, Amnesty International, and the Red Cross who are first responders, and will go where others won't.

 

[Vinayaka]

Do you have a single word which means 'Way of Life'?
That word might fit better than 'Faith', possibly?

Dharma, perhaps?

 

[Vinayaka]

I can understand how having a living teacher outgrades having a dead one.
The main reason being that any seeker can question said teacher.
Those who just rely on books/scripture are just relying on hearsay.

For me, some of main differences is you don't have to listen to a dead guy, and the living guy can make it incredibly personal. We are all individuals, after all. The personal consultation with the Satguru is far more like a conversation over coffee than a Catholic confessional. A lot goes on that is unseen in the form of shaktipat, darshan, or whatever we want to call it.

 

[LuisDantas]

No. I mean that the point of the scripture passages saying that there there are no other gods besides G_d, is not about how many of Him there are. He has no number. He is not one god, or three, or many, or even none. Those passages are not about G_d. They are about idolatry.

May you tell me more about your understanding of idolatry?

 

[Vinayaka]

My guru gave a list of requirements of such a divine "manifestation". I don't have them at hand, but they are a very impressive set of requirements.
Of course people or founders from other traditions will possibly have their own sets of requirements.

In my lineage, we don't believe in avatars, manifestations, messengers, or any such aggrandizing, just in certain folks being wise. Surely if one person had the power attributed to them in such lofty proclamation, his/her physical body would just explode. Imagine the power of God put into one person. It's illogical.

 

[Marcion]

In my lineage, we don't believe in avatars, manifestations, messengers, or any such aggrandizing, just in certain folks being wise. Surely if one person had the power attributed to them in such lofty proclamation, his/her physical body would just explode. Imagine the power of God put into one person. It's illogical.

In my tradition there is no belief in so-called avatars because God is One and at the same time present in everything. He cannot be both concentrated in one personality and be also everywhere outside that personality, it is an illogical idea.
Nevertheless the three tantric Maha-kaula's had a list of special qualities which are typical and necessary for Taraka Brahma (a special type of human incarnation). If you like I could search for this list of qualities which all three of them had (one I remember is that all three were married).

 

[oldbadger]

Dharma, perhaps?

See how much I know?
Thank you!

 

[Aupmanyav]

See how much I know?

Knowing 'dharma' is not enough, one has to practice it without thinking of rewards. Action because it is duty, action because it is 'dharma'. Krishna said:

"Karmani eva adhikarah te, ma phalesu kadacana;
ma karma-phala-hetuh bhuh, ma te sangah astu akarmani." BhagawadGita 2.47

(You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, don't think of rewards. Never consider yourself to be the cause of the results of your activities*, and never be attached to inaction).

* Don't be proud. If you succeed, don't think that it is all because of your action. The conditions allowed it. There is a report in today's newspaper that Napoleon lost the war because of a volcanic explosion in Indonesia which altered the climate in Europe and brought more rain, making the Waterloo field muddy and restricted the movement of French troops.

 

[oldbadger]

Knowing 'dharma' is not enough, one has to practice it without thinking of rewards. Action because it is duty, action because it is 'dharma'. Krishna said:

"Karmani eva adhikarah te, ma phalesu kadacana;
ma karma-phala-hetuh bhuh, ma te sangah astu akarmani." BhagawadGita 2.47

(You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, don't think of rewards. Never consider yourself to be the cause of the results of your activities*, and never be attached to inaction).

* Don't be proud. If you succeed, don't think that it is all because of your action. The conditions allowed it. There is a report in today's newspaper that Napoleon lost the war because of a volcanic explosion in Indonesia which altered the climate in Europe and brought more rain, making the Waterloo field muddy and restricted the movement of French troops.

Very good. I can grasp all that alright.

Anyway, Wellington was dead-lucky with Waterloo....... towards the end of that great battle his troops were spent, and it was only the arrival of the Prussians that altered the state of the field (as well as the mud). History is written by victors........ mostly full of bs and imposts, sadly.

 

[paarsurrey]

Learning to follow Bahá’u’lláh gives me encouragement and support in learning to be the kind of person I want to be. It has always guided me faithfully through the maze of conflicting and ever-shifting ideas and interests in the society around me. It helps me value and appreciate people and what they’re doing, and learn from them, across the widest ideological divides. It transports to me to a wonderful magical world of never-ending delightful discoveries, whenever I want to go there.

What I think it’s doing for the world is helping to build the foundations of a worldwide civilization shining with peace, justice and prosperity; and at the same time helping to reduce and counteract the damage from natural disasters including the ones arising from human nature.

ETA:

“Harmony and understanding, sympathy and trust abounding ... mystic crystal revelation, and the mind’s true liberation ...”

"it’s doing for the world is helping to build the foundations of a worldwide civilization shining with peace, justice and prosperity; and at the same time helping to reduce and counteract the damage from natural disasters including the ones arising from human nature."

That is exactly what the Ahmadiyya peaceful Islam is doing, please.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

I do not think they are doing anything of that sort. They are just another monotheist bunch seeking numbers which they don't have at the moment. I think they are even paying people to enhance their presence on internet. Well, that is my view and other people may have different views. I have no problem with that. But as they say in India 'Satyameva jayati, nanritam' (Truth alone wins, not falsehood).

"Satyameva jayate nānritaṃ, satyena panthā vitato devayānaḥ;
yenākramantirishyayo hyāptakāmā, yatra tat satyasya paramaṃ nidhānam."

(Truth alone triumphs; not falsehood, through truth the divine path is spread out;
by which the sages whose desires have been completely fulfilled, reach to where is that supreme treasure of Truth)
Satyameva Jayate - Wikipedia

"Truth alone triumphs; not falsehood, through truth the divine path is spread out."

That is exactly what we Ahmadiyya peaceful Islam believe in.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

I can understand how having a living teacher outgrades having a dead one.
The main reason being that any seeker can question said teacher.
Those who just rely on books/scripture are just relying on hearsay.

"having a living teacher outgrades having a dead one."

The Caliph of Ahmadiyya peaceful Islam provides the living teacher.

Regards

 

[Vinayaka]

"Truth alone triumphs; not falsehood, through truth the divine path is spread out."

That is exactly what we Ahmadiyya peaceful Islam believe in.

Regards

And I believe a better job at because of greater tolerance. But that, I believe, goes right back to culture of country of origin. One is Iran, and the other is Mother India.

 

[paarsurrey]

And I believe a better job at because of greater tolerance. But that, I believe, goes right back to culture of country of origin. One is Iran, and the other is Mother India.

Let the credit go to any or all people and places who believe it. It is a universal truth. Right, please?
Regards

 

[Vinayaka]

Let the credit go to any or all people and places who believe it. It is a universal truth. Right, please?
Regards

Believe what?

 

[paarsurrey]

In my view, the Baha'i have done absolutely nothing to date that wasn't already being done by other people and groups. One common lament by ex-Baha'is on it was 'all talk and no action'. One fellow said that the only charity ever done at his LSA was maintaining a section of road, and that was only so they could get a sign up on the highway advertising it. Baha'i like to take credit where it isn't due, like having massive influence on Gandhi, King, and others, which is just false propaganda.

Individuals, however, may well be very charitable. We're not privy to the efforts of a generous humble anonymous donor. In my view, if you need to make noise about charity, then it's not real charity. It has strings attached.

There are many massive charities like Doctors without Borders, Amnesty International, and the Red Cross who are first responders, and will go where others won't.

"There are many massive charities like Doctors without Borders, Amnesty International, and the Red Cross who are first responders, and will go where others won't."

All these charities and the people who support them are appreciable and Ahmadiyya peaceful Islam likes them while we have also established one with the name of "Humanity First", please.
Humanity First - Wikipedia

Regards