The rEvolving Doorway

[Earthling]

You don't get it, do you?

No matter what you evolutionist say, no matter how thorough, current and precise your answers are they mean nothing to the unbeliever (of evolution) because the answers will change tomorrow. You're preaching to the choir.

Believers, no matter what you say, no matter how thorough, scholarly, and accurate your answers are they mean nothing to the unbeliever (of the Bible) because they will dismiss it as just another interpretation. You are preaching to the choir. And the choir isn't on speaking terms. They're in disagreement.

It's a distraction. Like two party politics. An illusion. A trap, set by oh, I don't know . . . who could it be? SATAN?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

You don't get it, do you?

No matter what you evolutionist say, no matter how thorough, current and precise your answers are they mean nothing to the unbeliever (of evolution) because the answers will change tomorrow. You're preaching to the choir.

Believers, no matter what you say, no matter how thorough, scholarly, and accurate your answers are they mean nothing to the unbeliever (of the Bible) because they will dismiss it as just another interpretation. You are preaching to the choir. And the choir isn't on speaking terms. They're in disagreement.

It's a distraction. Like two party politics. An illusion. A trap, set by oh, I don't know . . . who could it be? SATAN?

Except that evolution and theism aren't necessarily at odds. There are lots of theists who accept evolution.

 

[Altfish]

You don't get it, do you?

No matter what you evolutionist say, no matter how thorough, current and precise your answers are they mean nothing to the unbeliever (of evolution) because the answers will change tomorrow. You're preaching to the choir.

Believers, no matter what you say, no matter how thorough, scholarly, and accurate your answers are they mean nothing to the unbeliever (of the Bible) because they will dismiss it as just another interpretation. You are preaching to the choir. And the choir isn't on speaking terms. They're in disagreement.

It's a distraction. Like two party politics. An illusion. A trap, set by oh, I don't know . . . who could it be? SATAN?

Of course we get it!
I fear it is you who don't get it. On this and other posts you keep stating something like, "the answers will change tomorrow" - that is the beauty of science, it is dynamic and changing, refining and improving our knowledge.
I hope scientists are in disagreement, otherwise we stagnate.

Atheists don't believe in Satan either.

 

[Valjean]

What do you mean "the answers will change tomorrow?"

We unbelievers (in the Bible) don't dismiss apologists' arguments because they're "interpretations." We may dismiss them for any number of reasons, but we're fine with interpretations.

 

[Danny1988]

Except that evolution and theism aren't necessarily at odds. There are lots of theists who accept evolution.

Those so called "theists" are actually hypocrites, they're not true believers. True believers don't sit on the fence.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Those so called "theists" are actually hypocrites, they're not true believers. True believers don't sit on the fence.

I'm not sure I would classify it as "sitting on the fence". Why is it hypocritical to believe in a God who uses evolution as their means of creation? There is nothing explicitly atheistic about evolutionary theory.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Those so called "theists" are actually hypocrites, they're not true believers. True believers don't sit on the fence.

Aye, just like true Scottsmen!

 

[Valjean]

ImmortalFlame said: ↑
Except that evolution and theism aren't necessarily at odds. There are lots of theists who accept evolution.

Those so called "theists" are actually hypocrites, they're not true believers. True believers don't sit on the fence.

Substitute heliocentrism for evolution and you'll see the same argument and apologetics has been going on for >400 years.
Do today's 'true believers' still believe the Earth is the immovable center of the universe and that the Sun revolves around it? If not, aren't they hypocrites?

 

[Danny1988]

I'm not sure I would classify it as "sitting on the fence". Why is it hypocritical to believe in a God who uses evolution as their means of creation? There is nothing explicitly atheistic about evolutionary theory.

We Christians believe that evolution is a lie straight from the pits of hell, it's purely Satanic. It contradicts Gods Word as we have it in the book of Genesis.

God created the world in six day and rested on the seventh day, every Christian believes every single word in the Holy Bible. If a person claims to be Christian and doesn't believe every Word, then that exposes them as false professors.

 

[Earthling]

Except that evolution and theism aren't necessarily at odds. There are lots of theists who accept evolution.

There are lots of theists that accept pagan teachings of the cross, the immortal soul, hell, the rapture, the trinity, Easter, Christmas, political affiliation, war in which fellow Christians must be killed, homosexuality, etc.

 

[Earthling]

Of course we get it!
I fear it is you who don't get it. On this and other posts you keep stating something like, "the answers will change tomorrow" - that is the beauty of science, it is dynamic and changing, refining and improving our knowledge.

Exactly.

I hope scientists are in disagreement, otherwise we stagnate.

Buy they don't, and you are.

Atheists don't believe in Satan either.

Duh!

 

[Danny1988]

ImmortalFlame said: ↑
Except that evolution and theism aren't necessarily at odds. There are lots of theists who accept evolution.


Substitute heliocentrism for evolution and you'll see the same argument and apologetics has been going on for >400 years.
Do today's 'true believers' still believe the Earth is the immovable center of the universe and that the Sun revolves around it? If not, aren't they hypocrites?

Yep, we believe that. All you need to do is go outside and observe and you will arrive at the same conclusion. From our point of view, everything is revolving around us and we are the center of the universe. If you send space ships into space, you get a different perspective. So it all comes down to where you are, things look different from different perspectives.

 

[Earthling]

What do you mean "the answers will change tomorrow?"

]I was taught evolution as fact in school 30 years ago. If I present those facts today I would be laughed at. I say this from experience. Evolution will never get to the point of gravity. It will always change because it's made up.

We unbelievers (in the Bible) don't dismiss apologists' arguments because they're "interpretations." We may dismiss them for any number of reasons, but we're fine with interpretations.

No, again, I speak from experience, atheist dismiss everything theist say as just another interpretation. This is a general, or blanket statement i realize, and there are always exceptions to the rule, but generally, for the most part, that's the way it is.

 

[Valjean]

We Christians believe that evolution is a lie straight from the pits of hell, it's purely Satanic. It contradicts Gods Word as we have it in the book of Genesis.

God created the world in six day and rested on the seventh day, every Christian believes every single word in the Holy Bible. If a person claims to be Christian and doesn't believe every Word, then that exposes them as false professors.

But this is all just folklore. There is no tangible evidence for this biblical ":explanation."
What evidence do you have for all this being "God's word?"

The science is based on observation and evidence. It's reasonable, not faith based.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

We Christians believe that evolution is a lie straight from the pits of hell, it's purely Satanic. It contradicts Gods Word as we have it in the book of Genesis.

Only if you take Genesis very literally. In which case, the truth contradicts it, because it's clearly fiction.

God created the world in six day and rested on the seventh day, every Christian believes every single word in the Holy Bible. If a person claims to be Christian and doesn't believe every Word, then that exposes them as false professors.

I can tell you're going to have a fun time on this forum.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

There are lots of theists that accept pagan teachings of the cross, the immortal soul, hell, the rapture, the trinity, Easter, Christmas, political affiliation, war in which fellow Christians must be killed, homosexuality, etc.

The point is that there isn't necessarily an inherent conflict between belief in God and belief in evolution. The two are demonstrably not mutually exclusive, so your OP sets up a false dichotomy.

 

[Earthling]

We Christians believe that evolution is a lie straight from the pits of hell, it's purely Satanic. It contradicts Gods Word as we have it in the book of Genesis.

God created the world in six day and rested on the seventh day, every Christian believes every single word in the Holy Bible. If a person claims to be Christian and doesn't believe every Word, then that exposes them as false professors.

Uh . . I disagree with pretty much everything you said in this post.

Evolution doesn't come from hell because there is no such place. God didn't create the world in six days, the Bible is fallible, I don't believe every word in it. There are spurious scriptures and copyist errors.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I was taught evolution as fact in school 30 years ago. If I present those facts today I would be laughed at.

Care to provide examples? Also, if you were taught it as science, by definition you were taught it as tentative.

I say this from experience. Evolution will never get to the point of gravity. It will always change because it's made up.

Evolution is actually widely considered to have even more evidence in support of it than the theory of gravity does.

 

[Earthling]

I'm not sure I would classify it as "sitting on the fence". Why is it hypocritical to believe in a God who uses evolution as their means of creation? There is nothing explicitly atheistic about evolutionary theory.

You can't believe in real evolution and real Christian Bible teachings. You can allow a Christian to claim to be Christian for social or traditional reasons out of ignorance while embracing evolution (probably also out of ignorance) because they are afraid of looking silly, but never the twain shall meet.

Now, you are fine with a Christian distorting beyond recognition the teachings of the Bible, because you don't believe in it, but imagine if they had to distort the teachings of evolution in order to reconcile the two. Then all of a sudden you will have a problem.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

You can't believe in real evolution and real Christian Bible teachings. You can allow a Christian to claim to be Christian for social or traditional reasons out of ignorance while embracing evolution (probably also out of ignorance) because they are afraid of looking silly, but never the twain shall meet.

What Biblical teaching specifically forbids or contradicts evolutionary theory?

Now, you are fine with a Christian distorting beyond recognition the teachings of the Bible, because you don't believe in it, but imagine if they had to distort the teachings of evolution in order to reconcile the two. Then all of a sudden you will have a problem.

What do they have to distort in order to reconcile the two?

Regardless, people distort religion all the time. Just look at the input of David1988 in this thread. From his perspective, you have clearly distorted the teachings of the Bible. I have less of an issue with that because interpretation is inevitable with regards to religious teachings. We have no "master copies" saying exactly what is meant, and parables and allegories seem to invite creative interpretation rather than literal. Science, on the other hand, relies on accurate communication of facts, not "teachings". If people "distort" the facts, they are manipulating and misrepresenting the truth. So yes, I do have a larger problem with that.