Question about pedophilia and beastiality

[Spiderman]

If I was a Muslim, I could not object to Pedophilia, because who am I to say that my sacred holy Prophet had it all wrong when he chose to have intercourse with a prepubescent girl (Aisha). But let's say she isn't prepubescent. What's wrong with one partner being 18 and the other partner being 15? Afterall, it's consensual, and they aren't hurting anyone.

Also, the question in the poll is supposed to be mildly amusing but in all seriousness, I'd really appreciate any feedback you have on the matter and please place your vote. We seem to be a culture that says, "if it's consensual and isn't pedophilia and they aren't hurting anyone, it's okay". I'm wondering how far our culture has gone in accepting sexual acts that are consensual and seemingly harmless to the community. If a rhinoceros could learn human languages and hold conversations with people would it be okay to have sex with a rhinoceros that consents to it? Should it be legal? Should a human and a rhinoceros be allowed to get married?

I'm really curious to see especially how a secular person could find any fault with it. The Bible condemns it, but this forum doesn't on average follow the Bible, so I appreciate your two cents and discovering the various reasons why it shouldn't be allowed.

I didn't place this in the Eros room because it didn't seem to quite cross that line and I wanted more votes and feedback. I hope the Mods will be lenient

 

[David T]

If I was a Muslim, I could not object to Pedophilia, because who am I to say that my sacred holy Prophet had it all wrong when he chose to have intercourse with a prepubescent girl (Aisha). But let's say she isn't prepubescent. What's wrong with one partner being 18 and the other partner being 15? Afterall, it's consensual, and they aren't hurting anyone.

Also, the question in the poll is supposed to be mildly amusing but in all seriousness, I'd really appreciate any feedback you have on the matter and please place your vote. We seem to be a culture that says, "if it's consensual and isn't pedophilia and they aren't hurting anyone, it's okay". I'm wondering how far our culture has gone in accepting sexual acts that are consensual and seemingly harmless to the community. If a rhinoceros could learn human languages and hold conversations with people would it be okay to have sex with a rhinoceros that consents to it? Should it be legal? Should a human and a rhinoceros be allowed to get married?

I'm really curious to see especially how a secular person could find any fault with it. The Bible condemns it, but this forum doesn't on average follow the Bible, so I appreciate your two cents and discovering the various reasons why it shouldn't be allowed.
View attachment 21298

I didn't place this in the Eros room because it didn't seem to quite cross that line and I wanted more votes and feedback. I hope the Mods will be lenient

Eros forum? Hahahahaha

 

[SomeRandom]

If I was a Muslim, I could not object to Pedophilia, because who am I to say that my sacred holy Prophet had it all wrong when he chose to have intercourse with a prepubescent girl (Aisha). But let's say she isn't prepubescent.

In the interests of being completely fair, the whole marrying kids and merely waiting for aunt flo to visit in order to determine the correct age for all a marriage entails is not really unique to Mohammed. Pretty much everyone in the Ancient World did that. Hell we did that right up until the early 1900s. Childhood as a concept has only really existed for around 60 - 100 years, if that.
I've heard it posited that Mary would have realistically been anywhere between 10 and 15 and Joseph would have been anywhere between his 40s to even 90. I mean yeah, 9 is way too young and might have even been a tad odd back then, but you do know that child marriage wasn't illegal until fairly recently, right? Even in the West. What's that saying about not throwing stones in glass houses?

What's wrong with one partner being 18 and the other partner being 15? Afterall, it's consensual, and they aren't hurting anyone.

Well there is an imbalance of power. An 18 year old would be theoretically more mature and perhaps more able to manipulate a 15 year old. But that said, I don't tend to stand in the way of said relationships. In fact they are technically legal where I live, despite the legal age of consent (for sex) being 16.

Also, the question in the poll is supposed to be mildly amusing but in all seriousness, I'd really appreciate any feedback you have on the matter and please place your vote. We seem to be a culture that says, "if it's consensual and isn't pedophilia and they aren't hurting anyone, it's okay". I'm wondering how far our culture has gone in accepting sexual acts that are consensual and seemingly harmless to the community. If a rhinoceros could learn human languages and hold conversations with people would it be okay to have sex with a rhinoceros that consents to it? Should it be legal? Should a human and a rhinoceros be allowed to get married?

Well kinks are relatively harmless, to be fair. But from a biological standpoint a Rhino might pose somewhat of a physical risk to any ahem lady parts if you get my drift?

I'm really curious to see especially how a secular person could find any fault with it. The Bible condemns it, but this forum doesn't on average follow the Bible, so I appreciate your two cents and discovering the various reasons why it shouldn't be allowed.

You realize that people can have their own "lines in the sand" independent of any Holy Book, right?

 

[Spiderman]

In the interests of being completely fair, the whole marrying kids and merely waiting for aunt flo to visit in order to determine the correct age for all a marriage entails is not really unique to Mohammed. Pretty much everyone in the Ancient World did that. Hell we did that right up until the early 1900s. Childhood as a concept has only really existed for around 60 - 100 years, if that.
I've heard it posited that Mary would have realistically been anywhere between 10 and 15 and Joseph would have been anywhere between his 40s to even 90. I mean yeah, 9 is way too young and might have even been a tad odd back then, but you do know that child marriage wasn't illegal until fairly recently, right? Even in the West. What's that saying about not throwing stones in glass houses?


Well there is an imbalance of power. An 18 year old would be theoretically more mature and perhaps more able to manipulate a 15 year old. But that said, I don't tend to stand in the way of said relationships. In fact they are technically legal where I live, despite the legal age of consent (for sex) being 16.


Well kinks are relatively harmless, to be fair. But from a biological standpoint a Rhino might pose somewhat of a physical risk to any ahem lady parts if you get my drift?


You realize that people can have their own "lines in the sand" independent of any Holy Book, right?

Thank you, that was a good post.

Can you explain your reasons for having those lines in the sand? I appreciate it!

 

[SomeRandom]

Thank you, that was a good post.

Can you explain your reasons for having those lines in the sand? I appreciate it!

Personal ethics?
Cause no harm basically.

 

[Spiderman]

Personal ethics?
Cause no harm basically.

But you do have religious beliefs so I won't ask you to explain further.

My curiosity is if the average atheist would consent to legalizing beastiality and animal marriage if there were some way that an animal could consent, or if atheists would draw the line and why, for we are both animals after all and "evolved from Apes."

 

[SomeRandom]

But you do have religious beliefs so I won't ask you to explain further.

I don't though. I don't really "identify" as religious, I guess? What you Abrahamics call atheistic and religious is not really useful for my camp. They're more.......muddled and fluid for us. We have an undercurrent philosophy separate from any real theism, but enforced more or less by a sense of familial tradition. Whether one wants to be religious is entirely up to the person in question.

My curiosity is if the average atheist would consent to legalizing beastiality and animal marriage if there were some way that an animal could consent, or if atheists would draw the line and why, for we are both animals after all and "evolved from Apes."

Well Rhinos didn't evolve from apes and humans ARE apes. Not sure why that would be used as justification for either side, though. As inter species "relationships" are not that biologically sound to begin with. You know the whole what happens to the offspring, is a point that should still be considered, regardless of one's beliefs.
I think your dichotomy is not particularly useful, but perhaps that is why you have these questions to begin with.
I won't pretend to speak for all atheists however.

 

[Spiderman]

I don't though. I don't really "identify" as religious, I guess? What you Abrahamics call atheistic and religious is not really useful for my camp. They're more.......muddled and fluid for us. We have an undercurrent philosophy separate from any real theism, but enforced more or less by a sense of familial tradition. Whether one wants to be religious is entirely up to the person in question.


Well Rhinos didn't evolve from apes and humans ARE apes. Not sure why that would be used as justification for either side, though. As inter species "relationships" are not that biologically sound to begin with. You know the whole what happens to the offspring, is a point that should still be considered, regardless of one's beliefs.
I think your dichotomy is not particularly useful, but perhaps that is why you have these questions to begin with.
I won't pretend to speak for all atheists however.

I'm just curious at what the average moral compass is for an atheist and deviant sexual practices...if their gut feeling would just be, "no, that's ****ed up!"

So, would an atheist object to a consensual 9 year old having sex with a 40+ year old based on the Imbalance of power and potential for manipulation? Or are there other potential objections that come to mind?

 

[SomeRandom]

I'm just curious at what the average moral compass is for an atheist and deviant sexual practices...if their gut feeling would just be, "no, that's ****ed up!"

Fair enough I guess.

So, would an atheist object to a consensual 9 year old having sex with a 40+ year old based on the Imbalance of power and potential for manipulation? Or are there other potential objections that come to mind?

Pretty sure most people in general find pedophilia repugnant. I think a lot of that has to do with parental instinct and how much we value childhood nowadays. And you know the myriad of scientific studies on how much that screws up kids for life. Consent isn't a buzzword, a child of 9 CANNOT consent period, so the point is pretty moot. Although child marriage probably still found within certain offshoot branches of Christianity, just saying.
I mean the general reaction to something like say Lolita is pretty universally a collective "EWW." With caveats of well it was pretty or the prettiness does not justify it, I think independent of any real sense of theology.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

The reason the age limits are what they are is because of levels of psychological maturity.

 

[Spiderman]

Well kinks are relatively harmless, to be fair. But from a biological standpoint a Rhino might pose somewhat of a physical risk to any ahem lady parts if you get my drift?

Yes, good thinking, I never considered the size of a Rhino's Phallus

 

[Axe Elf]

It wasn't my fault! The rhino was really horny...

 

[Spiderman]

It wasn't my fault! The rhino was really horny...

Glad to see someone could react to the OP with a sense of humor

 

[Axe Elf]

They said rhinoceros horn was an aphrodisiac, but this is ridiculous!

 

[Axe Elf]

What do you get when you cross an elephant and a rhinoceros?

Elefino.

I can do this all night...

 

[Spiderman]

They said rhinoceros horn was an aphrodisiac, but this is ridiculous!

Source?

 

[HonestJoe]

What's wrong with one partner being 18 and the other partner being 15? Afterall, it's consensual, and they aren't hurting anyone.

It isn't just about consent, it's about informed consent. Children generally don't have the experience or understanding to consent. The exact age an individual is capable will vary but for practical purposes, the law tends to draw a line at particular ages (though often with conditions).

I'm really curious to see especially how a secular person could find any fault with it.

Since we've never had to consider the question of inter-species relations with other intelligent beings, I doubt anyone has really considered it. As I see it, the only relevant factor would be potential harm (physical, disease etc.) and can't think of any other reason for prohibiting it. I doubt it's something we'll ever need to worry about though.

The Bible condemns it

I disagree. The Bible condemns sexual relations with animal but that would only be in the context of unintelligent ones. As I said, nobody has considered any other possibility. The religious would have to consider the new circumstances just as everyone else would. That's part of the problem with blindly following ancient sets of rules.

 

[Skwim]

What's wrong with one partner being 18 and the other partner being 15? Afterall, it's consensual, and they aren't hurting anyone.

As HonestJoe has rightly pointed out, it's informed consent that's critical, and people under a certain age, which in the USA varies from 16 to 18 depending on the State, are deemed incapable of giving such a thing.

As for bestiality, I have yet to hear a cogent, secular argument against it's its lawfulness.

.

 

[Axe Elf]

Source?

I couldn't tell you where I first heard it, but it's just one of those things that everybody "knows"--a collective consciousness kind of thing.