-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
It Is Good For A Man Not To Have Sexual Relations With A Woman.
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
Axe Elf
Prophet
There was a comedian who once observed that the Catholic church divides people up on the basis of how much sex they can have. On the one hand, you have the "nuns," and on the other hand, "the lay people."
sealchan
Well-Known Member
I think that maybe Paul had a problem with his own sexuality...
Skwim
Veteran Member
IF I understand what you're trying to say here, and I'm not sure I do, this is how you see the the story playing out,The problem with this statement is that it is wholy incomplete. It could even be labeled "a baith"
To start... let's see the whole of the reference (interestingly enough but not surprising) so that it is complete.
1 Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.”
We see here, that there is something people wrote about and not just about a man have a sexual relationship with a woman. What did they write about:
1 Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.”
2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband.
Sexual immorality. And then he promotes sexual relationship with your spouse.
Thus... shame, shame my dear Skwim.
Is there something deeper that you need to talk about?
Day one: We see Paul reading a letter from the church in Corinth asking about sexual immorality.
Two days later, god comes to Paul and inspires him to write back the following. "1Now for the matters you wrote about [sexual immorality] It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” Continuing, god then acknowledges the sexual immorality going on and what should be done about it, so he has Paul write "2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. . . . "
If that's what you're saying there is still no reason not to take god's first unqualified declaration to heart: It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” As I've said before, that god recognizes man's inability to do without sex and offers up several solutions, in no way negates verse one.
What people here seem not to get is that everything from verse two an onward does not modify verse one in any way whatsoever. Take a look at the analogy I gave in post 6. However, if this isn't what you have in mind, please share.
.
Last edited:
I MUST share, since the Skwim version of facts is obviously has a Skwim Skew.
(Not to mention the fact that the whole of Corinthians deals with a multiple of morality issues including going to sexual relations with your stepmother--a product of people coming out of serving the goddess Aphrodite)To Be Married, to Be Single . . .
7 Now, getting down to the questions you asked in your letter to me. First, Is it a good thing to have sexual relations?
2-6 Certainly—but only within a certain context. It’s good for a man to have a wife, and for a woman to have a husband. Sexual drives are strong, but marriage is strong enough to contain them and provide for a balanced and fulfilling sexual life in a world of sexual disorder. The marriage bed must be a place of mutuality—the husband seeking to satisfy his wife, the wife seeking to satisfy her husband. MSG
7 Now as to the matters of which you wrote: It is good (beneficial, advantageous) for a man not to touch a woman [outside marriage]. 2 But because of [the temptation to participate in] sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. AMP
No problem with having sex in marriage... but only a problem in context of outside of marriage.
It's really is dealing with celibacy and the message is "if you don't have the gift, don't try to live it--get married" because if you don't have the gift, you will end up with having sex outside of marriage.
He then promotes sex within marriage.
Context, Skew Skwim, Context.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
I have a hard time imagining anyone being attracted to Paul.
I have zero idea why women are attracted to men at all. I mean take, some random dude like this one. I mean the poor guy has to do a comb over. Or is that a wig?
Skwim
Veteran Member
And isn't that convenient.
The AMP! Good grief. The AMP is notorious for modifying verses so as to eliminate contradictions
2 Kings 24:8 (AMP)
8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he became king, and he reigned [only] three months in Jerusalem.
2 Chronicles 36:9 (AMP)
9 Jehoiachin was eight[teen] years old when he became king, and he reigned for three months and ten days in Jerusalem, and he did evil in the sight of the Lord.
8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he became king, and he reigned [only] three months in Jerusalem.
2 Chronicles 36:9 (AMP)
9 Jehoiachin was eight[teen] years old when he became king, and he reigned for three months and ten days in Jerusalem, and he did evil in the sight of the Lord.
Genesis 1:26,28 (ASV)
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them . . . ."
28 And God blessed them: and God said unto them,
Genesis 1:26,28 (AMP)
26 Then God said, “Let Us (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) make man in Our image, according to Our likeness [not physical, but a spiritual personality and moral likeness];
28 And God blessed them [granting them certain authority] and said to them,
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them . . . ."
28 And God blessed them: and God said unto them,
Genesis 1:26,28 (AMP)
26 Then God said, “Let Us (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) make man in Our image, according to Our likeness [not physical, but a spiritual personality and moral likeness];
28 And God blessed them [granting them certain authority] and said to them,
If you want to convince me you're going to have to do it with something other than the likes of the AMP.
.
Axe Elf
Prophet
The Amplified version isn't "adding" anything that wasn't in the original texts; it's restoring those shades of meaning implied by the language of the original text that can sometimes be lost in a word-for-word translation. If you use an Interlinear Bible and a Strong's Concordance to understand the shades of meaning that are lost in translation, then you will arrive at essentially the same interpretation as the Amplified; it just saves you all that time by having the research done for you. It doesn't always make for the most readable version, but it DOES make for the most accurate version.
Your reply is a strawman... Is it because you WANT it to say that? Especially since the above didn't really change what was said since it is "amplified"... and I gave you two.
First you tell me that he thinks it is wrong and then he turns around and says "3 Let the husband render unto the wife her due: and likewise also the wife unto the husband."
If he thought it was wrong, then verse 3 is wrong (which it is isn't) thus your skew is wrong.
Correct interpretation:
John Wesley:
7:1 It is good for a man - Who is master of himself. Not to touch a women - That is, not to marry. So great and many are the advantages of a single life.
7:2 Yet, when it is needful, in order to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife. His own - For Christianity allows no polygamy.
Robertson Word Picture:
Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote (peri de wn egrapsate). An ellipsis of peri toutwn, the antecedent of peri wn, is easily supplied as in papyri. The church had written Paul a letter in which a number of specific problems about marriage were raised. He answers them seriatim. The questions must be clearly before one in order intelligently to interpret Paul's replies. The first is whether a single life is wrong. Paul pointedly says that it is not wrong, but good (kalon). One will get a one-sided view of Paul's teaching on marriage unless he keeps a proper perspective. One of the marks of certain heretics will be forbidding to marry ( 1 Timothy 4:3 ). Paul uses marriage as a metaphor of our relation to Christ ( 2 Corinthians 11:2 ; Romans 7:4 ; Ephesians 5:28-33 ). Paul is not here opposing marriage. He is only arguing that celibacy may be good in certain limitations. The genitive case with aptesqai (touch) is the usual construction.
So, my dear Skew Skwim, get married (if not) and have all the sex your heart desires--assuming she let's you.
Skwim
Veteran Member
After all, you do have to take it all in context. Chapters before and after, not to mention exactly what was the question the Corinthians had in the first place.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I think Paul realized that God was more important than sex and that sex could intervene between him and God. He knew he would never convince anyone else of that so he said that every man should have a wife to avoid fornication.
As I view it, the following is my understanding as it includes part of what you said (for what it is worth).
When you are single, you can go anywhere at any time. Your time is available with no one to consider. Thus, if you want to be 100% towards whatever God wants and you have the capacity, don't get married. If God says "I think you need to go to Iraq", there is nothing to stop you. If you have to go hungry, there is no stopping you because it only involves you.
It would be equally important (my view) not to owe anybody and financial obligations can also hinder. Since God holds one responsible for their debts, one couldn't just get up and go to Iraq and say "Well, the banks can reposes my house and my car. Let the credit card people sue me". That wouldn't be God's will.
But once you get married, God equally holds you responsible for your spouse. If you have children, you can't simply say "let's all go hungry" because God would view that as not providing for your family. Now your commitment is also to your wife and children.
Thus, if you are able to be celibate and want to serve God without reserve, don't get married.
But if you try to do that and you do not have the gift of celibacy, you better get a wife (husband) because eventually you will fall into fornication. A "not good" testimony for people you are trying to reach.
That would be in the context of chapters before and after.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That is no doubt true for most people, but if one is married to someone who also wants to serve God without reserve, they can both do that together. They can have sex or choose not to if it intervenes between them and God.
Trackdayguy
Speed doesn't kill, it's hitting the wall
Trackdayguy
Speed doesn't kill, it's hitting the wall
Love your Avtar
Um, this looks like a hot potato. I'd like to have a go at answering your question but I'm needing a little more information:
1.Do you believe that the Bible should be interpreted literally ?
2. Do you believe that we are sexual people and are genetically wired to engage sexually with others
It's because the early Christians were expecting the Kingdom of God to be inaugurated on earth at any moment and so they lived ascetic lives. Married life was considered a distraction from focusing on God. Married couples rarely had sex and virginity and celibacy were prized above all. You still see echoes of this in Catholic and Orthodox monasticism and celibacy in the clergy. The original Christians wouldn't recognize all this "family values" talk that is spewed in their name today. It's the opposite of how they believed and lived. This promotion of marriage and having kids is something that came centuries later after Christianity was intwined with worldy power and stopped being apocalyptic as its main focus.
Can't argue that point.That is no doubt true for most people, but if one is married to someone who also wants to serve God without reserve, they can both do that together. They can have sex or choose not to if it intervenes between them and God.
I married one of like mind!