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How are these Great Beings explained?

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member

As a former Catholic salvation meant believing in Jesus and obeying His Teachings.

It means taking the sacraments and participating as part of one Body in one communion. This means to be saved you need to be baptized. Nowadays The Church half way accepts all baptisms were they didnt before.

To be apart of that body you would need to confess. Depending on how long you were not "physically" at the Church youc probably have to go through RCIA again. Physical sacraments. Physical communion. Physical Eucharist. All are spiritual.

Is a christian's salvation (sacraments of christ, mass, and passion) symbolic?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
I think they either understand but only speak of what bahai believe or they dont understand because they can only speak from what they believe.

I find that odd. I can speak by what I believe then I can put my beliefs aside and speak of what others believe without needing to see it in my own eyes. Someone thought I was searching because I dont have a one sided view. Another person when I first came didnt know what I believed because of it. I dont know if its an atheist thing or I just wasnt raised like that but its not American, I can see that now.
That's what's so difficult with these conversations... Believers think their truth is the correct one. I think there's truths in all religions, but I think Baha'is take the argument to far by trying to make all religions one. I fine with the differences.

But Baha'is can't have contradictions between religions. So Christians have to be wrong in their belief about Jesus and the resurrection. Baha'is need a way to explain it that fits their beliefs. Same thing with Hinduism and reincarnation. Hindus have to have it wrong, because it doesn't fit into the Baha'i truth.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So what is real about the story of Jesus?

Let the Writings talk

Of Jesus Christ, Baha’u’llah wrote:

"..Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.

We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified… We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him."

Also, Shoghi Effendi has said; "..As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized… The Founder of the Christian Faith is designated by Baha’u’llah as the “Spirit of God,” is proclaimed as the One Who “appeared out of the breath of the Holy Ghost,” and is even extolled as the “Essence of the Spirit.” His mother is described as “that veiled and immortal, that most beauteous, countenance,” and the station of her Son eulogized as a “station which hath been exalted above the imaginings of all that dwell on earth..."

Regards Tony
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
That's what's so difficult with these conversations... Believers think their truth is the correct one. I think there's truths in all religions, but I think Baha'is take the argument to far by trying to make all religions one. I fine with the differences.

But Baha'is can't have contradictions between religions. So Christians have to be wrong in their belief about Jesus and the resurrection. Baha'is need a way to explain it that fits their beliefs. Same thing with Hinduism and reincarnation. Hindus have to have it wrong, because it doesn't fit into the Baha'i truth.

I kinda got used to the truth-claim part. Admitting it is far and in between. Admitting ones position with a one word or sentence answer can bypass clarification issues and tells us the point each person supports. Thats a debate.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
It means taking the sacraments and participating as part of one Body in one communion. This means to be saved you need to be baptized. Nowadays The Church half way accepts all baptisms were they didnt before.

To be apart of that body you would need to confess. Depending on how long you were not "physically" at the Church youc probably have to go through RCIA again. Physical sacraments. Physical communion. Physical Eucharist. All are spiritual.

Is a christian's salvation (sacraments of christ, mass, and passion) symbolic?

That wasn’t my experience. My experience with Jesus was to love others and be of good character. Things like the sacraments were not of as much importance to me as being good and obeying Jesus.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Thats my point.

They go together equally.

Carlita I really, really like your profile Buddha statue photo. Is there anywhere I can get a copy to use for wallpaper for my tablet? There is so much beautiful Buddhist and Hindu art I feel I’m in heaven just looking at it.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If Baha'is denied the New Testament as being the Word of God and simply said that those writers were mixing myth with reality. Then, I'd have no problem, but Baha'is say it is the Word of God, and then turn it and reshape it to fit their beliefs.

Why not know that the Bible contains the Word of God and the Writers recorded the Spiritual Realities in outward forms and stories. Over time the Spiritual intent has been clouded.

Lets do an exercise on Just One Word and not a whole story, lets use Heart.

1 Chronicles 12:38 All these men of war, that could keep rank, came with a perfect heart to Hebron, to make David king over all Israel: and all the rest also of Israel were of one heart to make David king.


So 'perfect heart' and they were only 'of One Heart' - So is it Literal in meaning that the heart is not diseased and working well and we know they all do not have the one heart, or can we look to see the spirit of what is being said?

Do we take any of these following heart statements Literally, or do we look at what is spiritually being said?

  1. I know also, my God, that thou triest the heart
  2. in the uprightness of mine heart
  3. imagination of the thoughts of the heart
  4. prepare their heart unto thee
  5. he that standeth stedfast in his heart
  6. For if our heart condemn us/
  7. God is greater than our heart/
  8. prepare your hearts unto the LORD, and serve him only
  9. serve him in truth with all your heart
  10. Do all that is in thine heart
  11. Now it was in the heart of David my father to build an house for the name of the LORD God of Israel
  12. that walk before thee with all their hearts
  13. shall know every man the plague of his own heart
  14. that his wives turned away his heart after other gods
  15. Is thine heart right, as my heart is with thy heart?
  16. why hath Satan filled thine heart
  17. why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart
  18. shall give thee there a trembling heart
Regards Tony
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Carlita I really, really like your profile Buddha statue photo. Is there anywhere I can get a copy to use for wallpaper for my tablet? There is so much beautiful Buddhist and Hindu art I feel I’m in heaven just looking at it.

Actually, I got this online. I have a few from the temple I go to but havent decided if I should put it up. Right click or hold down the avatar and download the photo then transfer it to your lap top.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It means taking the sacraments and participating as part of one Body in one communion. This means to be saved you need to be baptized. Nowadays The Church half way accepts all baptisms were they didnt before.

If the Material aspect is important, why Baptism by Fire? John baptised with Water but Christ was to baptise with Fire.

Mathew 3:11 "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

We can accept that Baptism by Fire is a burning Love of Christ.

Regards Tony
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
If the Material aspect is important, why Baptism by Fire? John baptised with Water but Christ was to baptise with Fire.

Mathew 3:11 "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

We can accept that Baptism by Fire is a burning Love of Christ.

Regards Tony

I wonder why Christians don’t take Baptism by fire literally! Ha! Ha!
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Not at all. A Christian’s salvation is real and means to accept and follow Jesus as Lord and Saviour.

I was wondering if you understood this logic. A christian believes in the physical resurrection. They cant be saved by symbols. The resurrection promises any christians a physical ressurrection.

In god all things are possible

If the PR is a symbol so is their salvation. They go together.

How do you seperate the two especially as a former Catholic?

I cant think of another way to ask. If the rituals are secondary and not needed were you Catholic by belief, or were you raised Catholic and only knew rituals as routine isolated practice without the love?
 
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