"Hurricane-Damaged Houses Of Worship Can Receive FEMA Aid." BOOOO!

[Holdasown]

They aren't the same. Non-religious not-for-profit charities have declerations, filings and registry religious organizations aren't beholden to unless they specifically file outside religious charity. Which means religious organizations aren't arent actually required to be charitable to receive the benefit.
And I say this as someone who regularly participates in church based charity activity (registered charitable foundations). But I wouldn't want my money going towards, say, a JW kingdom hall which performs no charitable work, but still received tax exemption.

I wasn't aware non profit was equal to charity. It's mean non profit.

 

[Twilight Hue]

How come 'god' didn't protect these buildings?

It was his divine will to bring his people together.

Let's go boys....... Cuz were.....

"Going to build a building.... Going to build a building...... going to build a Holy Ghost building......".

 

[Twilight Hue]

Actually it's a perk of non profits. Atheists organizations get the same benefit.

I'm figuring that's how the ruling will actually go. If nonprofits qualify for FEMA then churches should fall in that category.

I think however there should be a criteria where a church can demonstrate it actually has helped the community in some way shape or manner then just their own congregation.

 

[Holdasown]

I'm figuring that's how the ruling will actually go. If nonprofits qualify for FEMA then churches should fall in that category.

I think however there should be a criteria where a church can demonstrate it actually has helped the community in some way shape or manner then just their own congregation.

I just don't think charity and non profit need to be the same. Places like the Moose, Elks and Lions are fraternities. They do set up charities for members to give to but you never have to do any charity work as an individual member. I see churches the same way. The church is for fellowship. They don't have to do charity work but most do something if you really look.

 

[Skwim]

So before this were you complaining that the other nonprofits were able to receive FEMA aid??

No, because the government wasn't constrained by the First Amendment. Evidently it was a mistake to ignore this component in my OP and focus of the tax issue, but at the moment their property tax status popped into mind as a real irritant.

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[Akivah]

I'm saying that it should be denied because:

1) They don't pay property tax

2) As religious institutions the government cannot be involved in any way with their establishment, and aiding them in their survival amounts to just that.​

So while I did say "If you want aid from FEMA start paying property tax," there's far more to it than just that. I focused on the property tax issue because I feel it's one of the more unjust perks our government has granted religions.

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Your logic is dubious

1) Property tax is administered on a county basis, not the federal government. Although many counties exempt buildings used for a religious purpose, some do not. I've seen many county tax rulings that tax some religious property for not being open to the public, not being used for worship services, and other reasons.

2) Extending your example further, a religious building on fire can not call on the fire department, a hostage situation in a religious building can not expect police aid, a religious building should not expect street lights, paved roads, or sewer and drainage services. Are these all unjust perks?

 

[Father Heathen]

How come 'god' didn't protect these buildings?

Maybe he was sick of them putting words in his mouth.

 

[Skwim]

Your logic is dubious

1) Property tax is administered on a county basis, not the federal government. Although many counties exempt buildings used for a religious purpose, some do not. I've seen many county tax rulings that tax some religious property for not being open to the public, not being used for worship services, and other reasons.

2) Extending your example further, a religious building on fire can not call on the fire department, a hostage situation in a religious building can not expect police aid, a religious building should not expect street lights, paved roads, or sewer and drainage services. Are these all unjust perks?

Nice correction.

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[ADigitalArtist]

I wasn't aware non profit was equal to charity. It's mean non profit.

All charities are non profit. Not all non profits are charity. All churches are automatically considered charities ( 501c3 ).
No other non profit is automatically under that tax code and must file and maintain differently from churches.

 

[Sanzbir]

No, because the government wasn't constrained by the First Amendment. Evidently it was a mistake to ignore this component in my OP and focus of the tax issue, but at the moment their property tax status popped into mind as a real irritant.

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Then it should be an irritant towards the other organizations that don't pay taxes either.

And if it's not an irritant for those organizations, you're just angry at another issue entirely, and are lashing out with any and all argument you can think of against it, even if those arguments aren't consistent with your own held beliefs.

 

[Skwim]

Then it should be an irritant towards the other organizations that don't pay taxes either.

You're quite right. Please see post 28 were I express my gratitude for being corrected.

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[Kenny]

I'm saying that it should be denied because:

1) They don't pay property tax

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All non-for-profits don't pay property tax. Some for profit corporations have had special exemptions too.

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2) As religious institutions the government cannot be involved in any way with their establishment, and aiding them in their survival amounts to just that.

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They aren't establishing a religion and they are aiding, without exception to religion, race or nationality, all enterprises as it should be.

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So while I did say "If you want aid from FEMA start paying property tax," there's far more to it than just that. I focused on the property tax issue because I feel it's one of the more unjust perks our government has granted religions.

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As it should, IMO. But you are certainly welcome to have a differing viewpoint. This is, after all, a free America.

 

[HonestJoe]

I'm saying that it should be denied because:

1) They don't pay property tax

2) As religious institutions the government cannot be involved in any way with their establishment, and aiding them in their survival amounts to just that.​

​

That still doesn't address the point. Do you think aid should be given to non-religious organisations with are exempt from property tax. Do you think aid should be given to religious organisations which do pay property tax. Basically, do you believe religious organisations should be treated the same as any others or they should be treated more harshly?

 

[Skwim]

Basically, do you believe religious organisations should be treated the same as any others or they should be treated more harshly?

They should be treated as the laws of our country have decreed. Above all, the separation of church and state must be maintained. The government cannot be involved in the establishment of a religion or its equity.

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[dianaiad]

No, because the government wasn't constrained by the First Amendment. Evidently it was a mistake to ignore this component in my OP and focus of the tax issue, but at the moment their property tax status popped into mind as a real irritant.

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So...the first amendment states that the government can't establish a state religion AND that 'congress shall make no law" interfering with our ability to exercise our religions. How is being discriminatory against a non-profit religion BECAUSE it is a religion not doing precisely that?

The government should treat all non-profits precisely the same; the Loyal Order of Wildebeasts should be treated exactly the way the local store front church is. The government should be utterly blind to the religious nature of any non-profit organization. As soon as it starts discriminating against religion because it IS a religion, the first amendment is being shattered.

And yeah, to whoever it is that objected to FEMA aid going to a local JW Kingdom Hall, get a grip. Not your call. I mean, really...if you get to decide that some religion doesn't get aid because you don't like them, you set yourself up to be denied aid because someone doesn't like YOU.

Ultimately, the First Amendment was not enacted to protect YOUR freedom of speech. It was enacted to protect the freedom of speech of those you don't like. That goes for me, for you, for all who live in the USA. If those we don't like don't get to express their religion freely, or speak freely, or if religious groups are discriminated against simply and only because they are religious, (whatever religion that may be) then ultimately you are putting your OWN freedoms at risk. That's the problem with republics and democracies; the majority rules, and the majority likes to change opinions. Frequently and wildly.

 

[Skwim]

So...the first amendment states that the government can't establish a state religion AND that 'congress shall make no law" interfering with our ability to exercise our religions.

It does not. It says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
​

Giving aid to a religion, which would necessarily come by way of congressional action (FEMA's funding and authority is controlled by Congress), amounts to assisting in its establishment.

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[Holdasown]

It does not. It says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
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Giving aid to a religion, which would necessarily come by way of congressional action (FEMA's funding and authority is controlled by Congress), amounts to assisting in its establishment.

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Nope. When the government is the only agent to provide aide when flooding is the issue all entities should have access. Including all religious buildings. As long as no one is turned away for not being the right one. Congress is not setting up a church.

 

[Skwim]

Nope. When the government is the only agent to provide aide when flooding is the issue all entities should have access.

Should of, would of, could of. Unfortunately, the SCOTUS agrees. And it isn't the first time it's made a bad decision.

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[ADigitalArtist]

And yeah, to whoever it is that objected to FEMA aid going to a local JW Kingdom Hall, get a grip

I think you missed what I was actually talking about. Because this isn't about a kingdom hall not getting aid, it's expecting a kingdom hall to be a contributor to the society it's getting aid from.
Because:

The government should treat all non-profits precisely the same;

They don't. Churches get to be charitable tax exempt even without a shred of doing charitable work. Unlike any other charitable group, which has to apply and maintain their charitable status in order to get the tax benefit.
For this reason, churches are in a position to leech the system. Which is why there are scams to get religions registered by scam artists.

I'm not saying other churches don't ever do charity, I participate in them. But they should be treated like every other not for profit, and apply for and maintain their status like everyone else.

 

[Holdasown]

Where does the all non profits must be charity thing come from. Plenty of non profits are not charities. They are non profits.