How are these Great Beings explained?

[loverofhumanity]

Oh my geesh. I think you beat me on this post this page at least. Im doing well though. Thank you for asking. Hope you are doing well too.




"That does not mean they are right" is what causes wars. It may seem like a difference of opinion but when you are addressing world peace, "right" should be mutually agreed on. Therefore, you can be encouraged by your divine messangers but, unless they are bahai, you cannot use divine messangers towards a joint solution to world peace.

The new systen is an US attempt not a bahaullah onem











Same view of following and need to go by their authority rather than look to themselves as authority of our individual well-being. That is like if I were Catholic, I dont have the same peace than I would if I followed the House of Justice.

We can generalize but if we broke it up individually, I notice Bahai dodge the same question. Though generalizing does more harm than individualizing.



Nowadays I seen only humble priests. It depends.



WHAT? Wait. Youre generalizing. That does harm. So Vinayaka and I manipulate and control minds?



Humans avoid pain naturally spiritually, psychologially, ans physically. Peace and health is natural. Its about this peace that people want. Its about what we want as a whole in general and what we want morally or religiously.

Money, membership, and control are icing to a cake.



What??! This is what causes wars. Buddhism doesnt have a promised one. All Buddhas have the same message. What message does Maitreya would bring if not peace and end of suffering by following The Buddha and Dharma Not himself?

We ignore interpretations of our books unless they are constructive and not contradicting the nature of our teachings And practices.

So I ignored my own Dhamma?



Krishna isnt part of this. He is a thorn in all promised ones. Everyone else were humans.









This is why there are wars. What about the other party's opinion?



This is a guilt ultimatum statement. Yoj have passionate words but the expression and truth statements dont attract people who look for coraporation with people not a one person dicatorship.

One point is that about things like ultimatums especially by Divine Messengers. For instance Baha’u’llah issued ultimatums because there were injustices and oppressions being committed against the people. He questioned the opulence and wealth of kings whilst their subjects were taxed to the hilt and in many cases starved or were sold into slavery or the kings would fight wars to kill and conquer and rape and pillage.

Baha’u’llah stood against all forms of injustice and confronted them directly. He was never intimidated by a bully but deemed that injustice had to be faced head on not cowered down to.

If you ever get a chance to read some of these letters you’ll find His concern was for the people and the way they were being treated.

By confronting kings and leaders about their mistreatment of their own people, the consequences He paid was to be tortured, imprisoned and exiled for 40 years just for speaking out, for openly standing against cruel injustices against people.

He accepted to be put in chains so that His Voice would bring to attention a silent world suffering under the yoke of oppression.

If Baha’u’llah had not been a whistle blower and exposed these tyrants and given the world courage to stand up for human rights and justice, we may still very well today be living under some cruel despot denied our rights and freedoms.

He has proven Himself a True Friend of the oppressed and downtridden, the poor and victimized. He never remained silent despite constant torture and mistreatment and in chains so heavy He could not stand straight. One of the chains weighed about 112 pounds or 51 kilos.

And now He created a worldwide movement dedicated to universal principles that all belong to one human family and all are equal with regard to rights and freedoms.

I’m biased here of course, but what if Baha’u’llah had nor spoken out? Would we be enjoying the same rights and freedoms we do now! My biased mind says not on your life.

His was a Voice in my opinion was the One that gave hope, courage and inspiration for others to arise for a just and peaceful world and which will eventually result in a paradise in earth compared to now.

Now the world is bent on ridding itself of tyrants and dictators and moving towards governance by bodies of consultation as Baha’u’llah encouraged.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Maybe in Iran it would help. For humanity? Thats speaking for people who should be a part of the decision making process.

In Iran we are getting regular news of Iranian people starting to voice their dissatisfaction with the treatment of minoritues their. It’s hard at the point of a gun for many to speak up there.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The son of a very wealthy, influential and powerful minister he would have had the bery best private tuition.
He may have been a hafiz which is how he makes mistakes about the bible.
I absolutely doubt the claims that he had no education; it was of the best, just focused to its own cultures etc.

No one is denying that Baha'u'llah had some education. Just a very modest one compared to todays standards.

The childhood of Bahá’u’lláh - The Life of Bahá'u'lláh

 

[loverofhumanity]

Carlita, Vinayaka, CG and friends. I think that one day we’ll all meet in the ‘spiritual world’ and we’ll each say to each other ‘I told you so’.

You all speak so much truth and wisdom here and no one has a monopoly on any of it so we each might have a piece of truth to share with the world.

As Rumi said.

The truth was a mirror in the hands of God. It fell, and broke into pieces. Everybody took a piece of it, and they looked at it and thought they had the truth.”

― Jalaluddin Rumi

 

[oldbadger]

A link to what we need to consider in Service and Charity.

Baha'i Writings on Charity

Regards Tony

The above was sent to another member.
I read through the link. See a single example:-
"We know that to help the poor and to be merciful is good and pleases God, but knowledge alone does not feed the starving man, nor can the poor be warmed by knowledge or words in the bitter winter; we must give the practical help of loving-kindness."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 60)

I notice this kind of approach on some Right Wing Christian websites; whenever a States duty to supply free medicare, schooling, benefits, disability support etc is suggested, angry replies often return, pointing out that Mercy. Charity. Loving Kindness, are the bedrock of that particular faith but that the State should not introduce taxation to provide relief from starvation, coldness, homelessness and poverty.

Some of the rich love to be seen dispensing their righteous bounty to starving, cold and needy people. It produces a wonderful sense of self-righteous warmth within. Yet these same people often evade their taxes, vote against social welfare by taxation and stamp foot when they are forced to cough up.

All giving is good, but a worthwhile governmental system will automatically provide all of these benefits paid for by suitable taxation.

My point is that Bahai does not appear to provide for any such services within the community, paid for by taxation under clear legislation.

The World needs to prepare for the provision of a living wage to everybody because IT and Robotics are going to be stripping away the jobs which hitherto have supplied the majority of folks with livings. If you think of all the services now provided by micro-processed systems you'll get the idea.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

One point is that about things like ultimatums especially by Divine Messengers. For instance Baha’u’llah issued ultimatums because there were injustices and oppressions being committed against the people. He questioned the opulence and wealth of kings whilst their subjects were taxed to the hilt and in many cases starved or were sold into slavery or the kings would fight wars to kill and conquer and rape and pillage.

Baha’u’llah stood against all forms of injustice and confronted them directly. He was never intimidated by a bully but deemed that injustice had to be faced head on not cowered down to.

If you ever get a chance to read some of these letters you’ll find His concern was for the people and the way they were being treated.

By confronting kings and leaders about their mistreatment of their own people, the consequences He paid was to be tortured, imprisoned and exiled for 40 years just for speaking out, for openly standing against cruel injustices against people.

He accepted to be put in chains so that His Voice would bring to attention a silent world suffering under the yoke of oppression.

If Baha’u’llah had not been a whistle blower and exposed these tyrants and given the world courage to stand up for human rights and justice, we may still very well today be living under some cruel despot denied our rights and freedoms.

He has proven Himself a True Friend of the oppressed and downtridden, the poor and victimized. He never remained silent despite constant torture and mistreatment and in chains so heavy He could not stand straight. One of the chains weighed about 112 pounds or 51 kilos.

And now He created a worldwide movement dedicated to universal principles that all belong to one human family and all are equal with regard to rights and freedoms.

I’m biased here of course, but what if Baha’u’llah had nor spoken out? Would we be enjoying the same rights and freedoms we do now! My biased mind says not on your life.

His was a Voice in my opinion was the One that gave hope, courage and inspiration for others to arise for a just and peaceful world and which will eventually result in a paradise in earth compared to now.

Now the world is bent on ridding itself of tyrants and dictators and moving towards governance by bodies of consultation as Baha’u’llah encouraged.

Yep. We all have our bias. Ive never heard of integration/unity of fajths seen positive. Christians killed pagans. They added to jewish teachings.

The issue is your faiths belief incorporates ithers. It makes it harder to make unified decisions when bahai believe bahaulah is in the bible and no christian would agree to that. Its, in their view, being with unyoked people.

I never seen this outside of god-religions. I find that interesting.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The above was sent to another member.
I read through the link. See a single example:-
"We know that to help the poor and to be merciful is good and pleases God, but knowledge alone does not feed the starving man, nor can the poor be warmed by knowledge or words in the bitter winter; we must give the practical help of loving-kindness."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 60)

I notice this kind of approach on some Right Wing Christian websites; whenever a States duty to supply free medicare, schooling, benefits, disability support etc is suggested, angry replies often return, pointing out that Mercy. Charity. Loving Kindness, are the bedrock of that particular faith but that the State should not introduce taxation to provide relief from starvation, coldness, homelessness and poverty.

Some of the rich love to be seen dispensing their righteous bounty to starving, cold and needy people. It produces a wonderful sense of self-righteous warmth within. Yet these same people often evade their taxes, vote against social welfare by taxation and stamp foot when they are forced to cough up.

All giving is good, but a worthwhile governmental system will automatically provide all of these benefits paid for by suitable taxation.

My point is that Bahai does not appear to provide for any such services within the community, paid for by taxation under clear legislation.

The World needs to prepare for the provision of a living wage to everybody because IT and Robotics are going to be stripping away the jobs which hitherto have supplied the majority of folks with livings. If you think of all the services now provided by micro-processed systems you'll get the idea.

The Baha'is are not Governing the world and will not in a very long time from how I see the future unfolding. There are a few provisions in the future for a Spiritual Solution for the economic issues.

What we are doing is building communities at the grassroots level, We are giving the training in Virtues that will set the foundation to a Charitable Humanity in the Future. I can assure you we spend considerably to acheive this.

Thus each individual Baha'i is also called by Faith to help the Poor, Needy, Sick and dispossessed. Yes there are many of us yet to learn to do this as we should, but we are implementing this guidance in our lives.

Here is One School you can help support that is funded by a Charity started by a group of Baha'i's. As it is not an official Baha'i Project, it can be opened to the public for donations, it is a registered charity in Australia. The school was started by Two Baha'is doing the Virtue Program in their village area. It was so well received, the children done so well, that there is now over 200 students. Friends Of Brilliant Star – Supporting the Brilliant Stars of The Solomon Islands

This is the FB Page - Friends of Brilliant Star

Come on join in, once you start there will be little time for RF

This school really needs our help, the teacher go without pay for their work.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It makes it harder to make unified decisions when bahai believe bahaulah is in the bible and no christian would agree to that.

Many Christains Have indeed excpeted Baha'u'llah. George Townsend was one of these and He spent many years near Ballinasloe, County Galway, where he was incumbent of Ahascragh and Archdeacon of Clonfert. He later became the Canon of St. Patrick’s Cathedral in Dublin. However, at the age of 70, Townshend renounced his orders to the Anglican Church and wrote a pamphlet to all Christians under the title “The Old Churches and the New World Faith” proclaiming his allegiance to the Bahá’í Faith.

George Townsend also wrote a great book called 'Christ and Baha'u'llah'. Christ and Baha'u'llah

This is a very good read.

This is the closing words of that book;

"...The Bahá'í Faith to-day presents the Christian Churches with the most tremendous challenge ever offered them in their long history: a challenge, and an opportunity. It is the plain duty of every earnest Christian in this illumined Age to investigate for himself with an open and fearless mind the purpose and the teachings of this Faith and to determine whether the collective centre for all the constructive forces of this time be not the Messenger from God, Bahá'u'lláh, He and no other; and whether the way to a better, kinder, happier world will not lie open as soon as we accept the Announcement our rulers rejected.

"O kings of the earth! He Who is the sovereign Lord of all is come. The Kingdom is God's, the omnipotent Protector, the Self-Subsisting. Worship none but God, and, with radiant hearts, lift up your faces unto your Lord, the Lord of all names. This is a Revelation to which whatever ye possess can never be compared, could ye but know it."

O Christian believers! for your own sakes and for the sake of the Churches, for the sake of all mankind, for the sake of the Kingdom, cast away your conflicting dogmas and interpretations which have caused such disunity and led us to the verge of wholesale self-destruction. Recognize the age of Truth. Recognize Christ in the glory and power of the Father and, heart and soul, throw yourselves into His Cause."

More works of George Townsend - Documents by George Townshend

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

What??! This is what causes wars. Buddhism doesnt have a promised one. All Buddhas have the same message. What message does Maitreya would bring if not peace and end of suffering by following The Buddha and Dharma Not himself?

We ignore interpretations of our books unless they are constructive and not contradicting the nature of our teachings And practices.

So I ignored my own Dhamma?

But not all Buddhists have the same message. Some even believe in God.

There are differing POV in Buddhism about the Maitreya Buddha.

Maitreya - Wikipedia

Why have a war when we can simply talk about it?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yep. We all have our bias. Ive never heard of integration/unity of fajths seen positive. Christians killed pagans. They added to jewish teachings.

The issue is your faiths belief incorporates ithers. It makes it harder to make unified decisions when bahai believe bahaulah is in the bible and no christian would agree to that. Its, in their view, being with unyoked people.

I never seen this outside of god-religions. I find that interesting.

It might be similar to saying within the seed potentially lies the leaves, branches, tree and fruit. We know it’s all there but at face value it’s just a seed.

 

[Vinayaka]

I can read that passage and it applies to me, I see Faith in this way,

So you do feel I'm superstitious, and that, from other passages, non-Baha'i' are blind, deluded, diseased, and walking away from God?

Hopefully you can keep that to yourself when working with the broader community. Else you wouldn't have many friends.

I di dnot cause trouble for my parents at all. It was only later, when I learned of how some groups of people are portrayed poorly by folks who consider themselves superiour did I lear to stand up

Abdul'baha in America gave a talk in a synagogue.

In that talk He gave proofs of Christ and Muhammad. Knocked their socks off he did.

Can you link me to that one, so I can see if he insulted them?

The quote that you are referring is not related to Hinduism. Abdulbaha was speaking about the Muslims of His time.

"Some worship the product of their own imagination: they make for themselves an imaginary God and adore this, when the creation of their finite minds cannot be the Infinite Mighty Maker of all things visible and invisible! Others worship the sun or trees, also stones! In past ages there were those who adored the sea, the clouds, and even clay!"

Now that would makes sense, because I do get the sense that he is comparing mostly to Islam. The problem is I can't see Moslems worshipping stones because they're dead set against it. Unless of course he was referring to Mecca.

 

[Vinayaka]

We can not dismiss a belief just because we do not believe in it. We all have limited perception to a degree.

I totally concur. Unfortunately some of your first leaders did exactly that, as explained in my discussion with IT and Tony. I see no reason to dismiss another's belief. Of what benefit is that to you?

Abdul Bahai and S. Effendi would have done their faith a great service it they would have been able to hold back their critical tongues. It's a real turnoff, when simultaneously they're expressing a desire to get along with others.

 

[Vinayaka]

Reward and punishment is the fundamental principle that should govern societies.

I beg to differ, as do many. How would we ever reach a consensus on what to implement? Better to leave it out of the minds of men, and up to God, who has already created the perfect system. It's called karma, and it's perfectly just.

 

[Vinayaka]

What do you think is going to happen when millions stop following the pope and instead pledge loyalty to the House of Justice? Will the priests remain silent? The same with Buddhism, Hinduism and Islam. They manipukate and control the minds, souls and pockets of their followers and won’t surrender them without the fiercest of fights with truth being the victim.

It’s about power, membership, control and money not truth.

Every Holy Book prophesied a Promised One.

Hello LH. I see you've reverted back to the party line dogma. Too bad that.

The first part about the pope, etc. is just wishful dreaming. Far more likely that the Catholic Church will morph into something better. It's changed a lot in the last 50 years, needs more work sure. As for the other faiths, yes, we understand that Baha'i's believe that all the other religions are evil, mind controlling, swindlers, all about power, membership, etc.

Don't you find it ironic that many of the ex-Baha'i;' say the very same things about your faith?

As for the last part, as I've mentioned before, there are many many faiths that don't have prophecy at all in their writings. Your statement would be accurate if you changes the term 'every' to 'some;.

 

[Vinayaka]

A very kind description of the UK and us. Thankyou.
@chinu had to come to London about three years ago, so we met up and took a taxi round London, enjoying the sights, talking and stopping at coffee bars. It was a brilliant day, but that's the only time I have ever met anybody from RF or the internet at all.

That sounds like a ton of fun. I'll keep it in mind for future travels. But we'd have to do a couple of pit stops at a Hindu temple or two.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

But not all Buddhists have the same message. Some even believe in God.

No. Buddhists have the same message. Some are more mystic than others. It depends on where that sect came about. Since god, for you, is unseen essense of course I see bahai relating their definition of so broadly defined wih mystic experiences of Some Buddhist sects. Get this. In the Dhamma The Buddha mentions being one with Brahman. Yet, he specifically told Brahma (through a Mara incarnation) that no eternal creatoe exist because everything changes. No eternity. Noting permanent. No Brahma (creator). Definitely no god of abraham. Thats pushing mystic experience perceived by the mind (in buddhism) and mystic experiences experienced by the heart with many other religions.

There are differing POV in Buddhism about the Maitreya Buddha.

Yes. The sect I too refuges in believe Maitreya is the future buddha to return.

According to Buddhist tradition, Maitreya is a bodhisattva who will appear on Earth in the future, achieve complete enlightenment, and teach the pure dharma. According to scriptures, Maitreya will be a successor to the present Buddha, Gautama Buddha(also known as Śākyamuni Buddha).[1][2] The prophecy of the arrival of Maitreya refers to a time in the future when the dharma will have been forgotten by most on the terrestrial world.​

There is nothing here saying Maitraya will teach a Different message than The Buddha. Also, buddhas have been teaching the true Dhamma over and over for ages. Nichiren Shoshu believes Nichiren Dishonin is the reincarnation of Shakyamuni Buddha. NT Nichiren Shoshu

Role of Maitreya He does not come to change The Dhamma but set it back to how The Buddha Shakayamni taught it.

Maitreya of Loving Kindness Not all Buddhist sects believe in Maitreya. Here it says he is the emboddiedment of loving kindness. Exactly the same message The Buddha Shakyamuni taught.

If you would forget the teachers for a second. (Not a prophet faith; we dont depend on The Buddha. We depend on The Dhamma). The Dhamma is life. Its cause and effect. You cant change the consequences and blessings you get from your actions. There will always be suffering. Suffering, in the Dhamma, doesnt just mean someone with cancer and countries at war. When you eat, you experience suffering. Suffering from hunger. Then impermence is at work and suffering changes. Youre full. That pleasure is not eternal. You hungry again. That is Dukkha.

When the kings and chariots wear out (the physicsl Dhamma)

The body Too undergoes decay (we die as soon as we are born: that is suffering)

But the body of the Dhamma does not decay (impermence, suffering, rebirth does not decay)

The good proclaims with the good (the good of the dhamma justifies itself present)

Unless you are saying Maitreya will somehow change the laws of nature, he, as with all buddhas is just going to reestablish (not make new) The Buddha's teachings that would be loss. Physical teachings. Monastic teachings.

Not a promised on to send a new message from god. Just a buddha to reestablish practices of his teacher.

Why have a war when we can simply talk about it

If you want a solution it goes further than talking. Put all our solutions on the table. Since no one will agree (the point of accepting diversity) we put our beliefs aside and find a solution that we can build on together. Youbare strengthened by your faith but cannot use it to end humanity's problems unless We agree.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It might be similar to saying within the seed potentially lies the leaves, branches, tree and fruit. We know it’s all there but at face value it’s just a seed.

Its more just because we are all human doesnt mean our personality and who we are in general are the same. Our foundation isnt that we are all human. Our foundations/seeds differ. Different seed. Different plant.

Diversity does not start with one seed.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Many Christains Have indeed excpeted Baha'u'llah. George Townsend was one of these and He spent many years near Ballinasloe, County Galway, where he was incumbent of Ahascragh and Archdeacon of Clonfert. He later became the Canon of St. Patrick’s Cathedral in Dublin. However, at the age of 70, Townshend renounced his orders to the Anglican Church and wrote a pamphlet to all Christians under the title “The Old Churches and the New World Faith” proclaiming his allegiance to the Bahá’í Faith.

George Townsend also wrote a great book called 'Christ and Baha'u'llah'. Christ and Baha'u'llah

This is a very good read.

This is the closing words of that book;

"...The Bahá'í Faith to-day presents the Christian Churches with the most tremendous challenge ever offered them in their long history: a challenge, and an opportunity. It is the plain duty of every earnest Christian in this illumined Age to investigate for himself with an open and fearless mind the purpose and the teachings of this Faith and to determine whether the collective centre for all the constructive forces of this time be not the Messenger from God, Bahá'u'lláh, He and no other; and whether the way to a better, kinder, happier world will not lie open as soon as we accept the Announcement our rulers rejected.

"O kings of the earth! He Who is the sovereign Lord of all is come. The Kingdom is God's, the omnipotent Protector, the Self-Subsisting. Worship none but God, and, with radiant hearts, lift up your faces unto your Lord, the Lord of all names. This is a Revelation to which whatever ye possess can never be compared, could ye but know it."

O Christian believers! for your own sakes and for the sake of the Churches, for the sake of all mankind, for the sake of the Kingdom, cast away your conflicting dogmas and interpretations which have caused such disunity and led us to the verge of wholesale self-destruction. Recognize the age of Truth. Recognize Christ in the glory and power of the Father and, heart and soul, throw yourselves into His Cause."

More works of George Townsend - Documents by George Townshend

Regards Tony

That leaves out millions that do not and dont even know about bahaullah. I came across the bahai site by coinsedence. I wouldnt be talking about bahai if I never gone to that site.

You have to step from bahaullauh's writings to "get" what diversity is trying to tell you. Its like you're behimd a closed unlocked door. Diversity is on the other side. You quote and say bahaullah (another person behind the door) has seen the world accepting diversity etc. You go on about this offering truth and knowledge. Then diversity sits back and listens to you offer.

We wait.

When you're finish, one person says...

"Well. Okay then. You know only what you came in contact with. Wanna talk?" He pauses. "Open the door."

Then its like opening the door depreciates your pride of what you already know about the rest of us. I shake my head.

 

[Katzpur]

OK. So your 'Great Being' is Jesus, and not Joseph Smith?

Oh, no! We absolutely, positively do NOT worship Joseph Smith. The correct name of our Church is, after all, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints -- NOT The Church of Joseph Smith.

A very kind description of the UK and us. Thankyou.

You're very welcome. It was the most wonderful trip I've taken in my 69 years!

 

[oldbadger]

............. We are giving the training in Virtues that will set the foundation to a Charitable Humanity in the Future.

That's great but we obviously don't want provision to rely on charities.

Here is One School you can help support that is funded by a Charity started by a group of Baha'i's. As it is not an official Baha'i Project, it can be opened to the public for donations, it is a registered charity in Australia.

We support two charities here, though.