How are these Great Beings explained?

[TransmutingSoul]

The task of uniting world religions was already done by hinduism

Well done. But I must say that is a confusing statement.

I say this because it was Baha'u'llah that made me even consider what was behind the Faith of Hinduism, not the other way round. I would suspect many people have explored Hinduism for the very same reason.

Vinayaka practice in his branch of Hinduism says they are not concerned about trying to Unite the World Religions.

Thus I would ask, when was the Task completed by Hinduism, considering it still appears not to have happened?

Regards Tony

 

[RoaringSilence]

It would be interesting to see how many Jobs were generated in India by the building of this temple and how much wealth it is now offering both Materially and Spiritually by the visitors it gets.

Tourism "The Bahá'í House of Worship in Delhi was inaugurated to public worship in December 1986. By late 2001, it had attracted more than 70 million visitors, making it one of the most visited buildings in the world. According to the government of India, it had received over 100 million visitors by April 2014."

"..The temple is visited by more than four million people every year with an average of more than 10,000 visitors daily. According to Bahai scripture, the House of Worship cannot have any pictures, statues or images displayed inside."

I found this interesting;

"..Wealthy Hindu temples such as this one are repositories for much of the $1 trillion worth of privately held gold in India – about 22,000 tonnes, according to an estimate from the World Gold Council. In 2011, one temple in south India was found to have more than $22bn in gold hidden away in locked rooms rumoured to be filled with snakes. Another has enough gold to rival the riches stashed at the Vatican, experts said.

But little of it is contributing to the Indian economy, and now prime minister Narendra Modi’s government is looking to monetise India’s vast hidden wealth. In coming weeks, the government plans to begin a programme that will allow temples to deposit their gold into banks to earn interest and circulate in the economy, rather than sit idle in musty vaults. The gold, officials said, would be melted down and sold to jewellers...." India urges its wealthy temples to bolster the economy with gold

Stay well stay happy and stay focused, RoaringSilence may you always be a good friend in life.

Regards Tony

tony dear you are honest guy, so don't take attacks personally... just see things from all perspectives.
most of the new generation is vastly rejecting the one god and creation = worship slaves model , that's why you need to understand that the wise sages of hinduism saw all of this coming ages ago.. just get ready to open your mind and forget about seat in heaven for a few days ...look at the REAL modern world.. nobody in the modern world wants a ruler with laws.. the modern world wants self governance. HOWEVER the one who want to rule the world look for land , kingdom prophecy and look for projects like yours to benefit from.

i tell you one personal temptation that i rejected , i know for a fact that if i join you guys i can get you converts like rainfall ... i know i can change the face of baha'i overnight.. and the motivation would be i ll get a piece of the action when you guys win the world.. that's the kind of people who actually get attracted to a rule teh world model. be practical.. and the god ,l the power that you experience has no label ...its an open source god.. he gives me power vision and miraculous intuition as gifts too, so don
t be hasty in labeling it "the baha'i god .

 

[RoaringSilence]

Well done. But I must say that is a confusing statement.

I say this because it was Baha'u'llah that made me even consider what was behind the Faith of Hinduism, not the other way round. I would suspect many people have explored Hinduism for the very same reason.

Vinayaka practice in his branch of Hinduism says they are not concerned about trying to Unite the World Religions.

Thus I would ask, when was the Task completed by Hinduism, considering it still appears not to have happened?

Regards Tony

we united the world from the beginning brother. just read what hindu philosophy really is.
we don't see the world as hindu and ROW=kafir.. or the others.. never have never will..

what vinayak would've said is.. tht hindus 1) not interested in converting .. 2) not interested in ruling world. and those are facts

 

[TransmutingSoul]

tony dear you are honest guy, so don't take attacks personally... just see things from all perspectives.

That is kind of you. Just so you know, it is not taken personally, after all "attacks" against the Faith have yet to unfold as they will. I am glad that you can give it in such a gentle way.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

i know for a fact that if i join you guys i can get you converts like rainfall ... i know i can change the face of baha'i overnight.. and the motivation would be i ll get a piece of the action when you guys win the world.. that's the kind of people who actually get attracted to a rule the world model

There were a few that had that idea in the Faith in the past.

I can tell you that if you bring any self into the Message of Baha'u'llah, that you will be chewed up and spat out very quickly, I say that not against you, but as good advice if one does try.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

we united the world from the beginning brother. just read what hindu philosophy really is.
we don't see the world as hindu and ROW=kafir.. or the others.. never have never will..

what vinayak would've said is.. tht hindus 1) not interested in converting .. 2) not interested in ruling world. and those are facts

I would then ask who is "We" in your statement?

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

What you appeared to be discussing earlier was the Baha'i Faith as a 'fusion' religion. Using the food analogy we have a salad composed of various writings and traditions from the world religions ( Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism for example) and we mix it all together and call it the Baha'i Faith. That is not what the Baha'i Faith is and anyone who takes the time to consider the actual writings of Baha'u'llah will find that in regards to content there is significant new material that does not draw from any of these faiths, certainly not the Abrahamics. There is no evidence that Baha'u'llah was inspired directly by Buddhism or Hinduism as no evidence exists pertaining to Jesus being inspired by these religions as you previously suggested. You will find scant references to core Baha'i concepts such as the oneness of religion, the oneness of humanity, a global civilisation, international governance, abolition of slavery, equality of men and woman, harmony between science and religion, and democracy (to name a few) in the other Abrahamic Faiths.

I've had a busy day but lets consider some of these two papers and 300+ page book you have selectively quoted from.

"It appears then that the Bahá'í Faith in America, at least, has developed historically as a successful synthesis of Christianity and Islam…

…I propose that the actual experience and practice of American Bahá'ís is not a mere imperfect reflection of Islamic contexts, but is a living religion in which the traditions and religious assumptions of both Islam and Christianity have been blended in organic unity."

Anthony A. Lee, Reconciling the Other: The Baha'i Faith in America as a Successful Synthesis of Christianity and Islam (1995)

I guess you can make a paper say something it doesn't by selectively quoting as you have. Here's the abstract in its entirety:

ABSTRACT:
A number of scholars have commented on the Islamic elements of basic Baha'i theology and practice as found in Europe and America. In fact, the study of the Baha'i religion, even in the West, continues to be thought of academically in terms of Islamic Studies. And yet, the Baha'is themselves, in the United States and elsewhere, are quick to deny that their religion is Islamic. Indeed, many ordinary Baha'is are even unaware of the Islamic roots many Baha'i teachings, and they experience them instead as the fulfilment of Christianity.

It appears then that the Baha'i Faith in America, at least, has developed historically as a successful systhesis of Christianity and Islam. In fact, this may be the only successful synthesis of the two traditions which exists as a living religion. Naturally, a reductionist argument is not being made here: The Baha'i Faith is more than a Christian-Muslim syncretism. Nonetheless, basic elements of both religions have been harmonized in current Baha'i thinking and practice.

This paper will seek to identify some Muslim elements in the Baha'i religion as it is practiced in the United States and demonstrate how these elements have been Christianized in Baha'i practice. It will comment on the power of religion to achieve one of its fundamental purposes--to dissolve contradictions and reconcile the unreconcilable.

Reconciling the Other

Considering this abstract in its entirety gives an very different message. It provides the context as to why the paper was written and its purpose. We have this term syncretism being used but the author is clear the Baha'i faith is more than that.

"The Baha'i Faith is less eager to use the word [syncretism] but they are quick to claim lineage with all existing religious traditions."

Christopher Hartney, Syncretism and the End of Reigion(s), Sydney Studies in religion (2008)

Here is that word syncretism again. I presume you are equating fusion with syncretism, but they have different meanings. The paper identifies the use of the word syncretism as problematic amongst religious scholars, but then goes onto to justify its use by applying its use to two completely different belief systems (The Baha'i Faith and a Vietnamese religion called Caodaism). It is an interesting paper that attempts to make sense of newer religious movements.

I agree that some religious scholars often do see the Baha'i Faith as syncretic (as opposed to a fusion) but there are problems with this view.

Here's a much easier and less wordy rebuttal than the papers you have provided me.

The Baha'i Faith and Syncretism

Bahá'í Faith and the unity of religion - Wikipedia

There are problems with seeing the Baha'i faith as a sect of islam.

http://www.bahaitext.info/btxt.asp?buk=ls&tgt=113:1+4&wds=zd

The Baha'i faith is often confused with syncretism because it claims lineage from other faiths. However we clearly have our own sacred writings.

"The Baha’i faith is thus, to a large extent, syncretistic."

Mohamed Omar Salem and John Foskett in Religion and Reigious Experiences, Chapter in Spirituality and Psychiatry, p.242, (2009)

This is from a 300+ page book that explores psychiatry and religion. There is only a very brief mention of the Baha'i faith (2 paragraphs), so there is no evidence that the authors have considered the Baha'i faith in any depth.

http://www.psychiatry.ru/siteconst/...]_Spirituality_and_Psychiatry(BookFi.org).pdf

This brings us back to what @Vinayaka and I have been discussing. The problem when one Faith adherent presents another religion and misrepresents it.

 

[Vinayaka]

Here you go

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Aqdas

I didn't have time for any kind of full perusal, but the idea that they weren't borrowed seemed odd. For example, isn't always facing the same direction during obligatory prayers, and obligatory daily prayers themselves what you see in Islam? I'm sure there are many more examples, but again, I find the language so archaic, it's practically unreadable.

 

[Vinayaka]

We’re all struggling with our own imperfections and attachments to worldly things and emotions. My mother would have made a wonderful Hindu as I cannot remember her ever shouting or yelling or being angry at me.

When I was naughty (more often than not Ha!Ha,) she would just cry. At those times I felt so ashamed. It was as if those tears were each as powerful as a tidal wave

Mothers have that power in them. When Mom spoke, I listened. Not because she was strict, but because I respected her.

 

[Vinayaka]

A quick search of the Internet to find who has written on the subject of the Baha'i Faith being an independent religion, found many sources referencing Scholars and even High Court Rulings that have concluded the Faiths Independence.

Please provide links, when you make these blanket statements. Otherwise it is plain hearsay.

Certainly when I do the same thing, well over half of the studies are by Baha'i's themselves, and that reeks of bias by definition.

 

[Vinayaka]

First point is we can never take God out of any aspect of our life, nor would I ever wish to.

It is man that has the conflicts of opinion and ideas. It is man that struggles to find the connections, it is man that feels they know better than what God offers us.

In the end it is Gods Wisdom that prevails and mans hollow words disappear with each of us that offer them.

Regards Tony

It's just that we all have differing opinions on what comes from God, and what comes from man. We'll never agree on that.

 

[Vinayaka]

Vinayaka practice in his branch of Hinduism says they are not concerned about trying to Unite the World Religions.

Thus I would ask, when was the Task completed by Hinduism, considering it still appears not to have happened?

Well, that's out of context. Hindus have always practiced a unity in diversity. It's just that our unity in diversity stresses the diversity part, and we want each faith to be itself, without any intrusion or misinterpreting. Baha'i's, OTOH, want more of a philosophical unity, and envision the entire planet becoming Baha'i to achieve this.

Hindus like Mahatma Gandhi and many others, including a slough of modern Gurus like Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Satya Sai Baba, Amma, and many others work determinedly towards world peace, always guided by the fundamental Hindu teaching of ahimsa. Many Hindus, including my own Guru, Subramuniyaswami, have spoken at the United Nations. Our chants almost always end with 'Aum Shantih, Shantih, Shantih.' Shantih, meaning peace, is always right there. The method is different than Baha'i' and arguably far more successful. The Baha'i' want unity, which remains largely undefined, whereas the Hindu wants ahimsa, which is clearly defined. The entire 'spiritual but not religious' crowd unknowingly draws on the wisdom of Hinduism in many of it's central concepts, such as freedom from dogma, personal quiet time, love without conditions, and more.

Yes, there is more work to be done, and it is being done.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Tony, do you understand what we are saying: differences are not negative and they (differences) are the foundation of a community who have the choice to work together towards a goal they individually choose together? (No boss. Full collaboration.)

Your peers seem to ask more questions about our point of view because some of them say they are interested in learning. Take that extra step from your comfort zone and ask questions.

It is not a one-sided conversation. If you want that, I am not the person to talk with.

It is not negative, if ultimately we are looking for the Unity of Humanity. This Unity requires us to direct our minds to the common good for all.

Bahaullah says differences are not good (as you say "differences are illusions"). I quoted it. To the rest of us, that is negative. It is not about you (right now); we talked about your side for months.

I confirm your thought, that we should indeed associate with the like minded, as efforts to bring about the betterment of society will happen in collaboration with like minded people.

I did not say that.

I just said "different trees make up one forest; different level waves make up the sea; um... different types of stars make up the universe."

I asked if you understood this.

Humanity working together regardless of our different beliefs is besides my point.

Move on ...

We can talk about suttas.
We can talk about diversity and differences
We can talk about the shootings in Las Vegas.

Name a new subject we can talk about together.

Take the next step and learn things from me (or a new topic all together) outside of your comfort zone. I know you're talking to everyone else about cool things. Very interesting actually.

-

I hope separating these sentences helps you more.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Gosh. If someone got me started on the beauty of the suttas, I'd stick with that.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Please provide links, when you make these blanket statements. Otherwise it is plain hearsay.

Certainly when I do the same thing, well over half of the studies are by Baha'i's themselves, and that reeks of bias by definition.

They reference their sources in those studies.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It's just that we all have differing opinions on what comes from God, and what comes from man. We'll never agree on that.

That is where the Word of God can be sourced to help us.

It comes back to acceptance of the Great Beings, who of them are of God and thus are God to us.

All of them have advice on this issue.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

That is where the Word of God can be sourced to help us.

You clearly don't understand me.. Some people say the 'Word of God' is actually the word of man. This is for any Abrahamic peoples who focus on a single prophet being the correct one. It includes Baha'i', Islamic fundamentalists, Christian fundamentalists, etc. Just because you think your prophet's word is God's word doesn't really mean it is. Yes, that is your belief, and it's okay to have that belief. But it's not fact. So all of these groups are very similar, insisting theirs is the correct view, in other words the word of God. All others ... nope, just some man.

 

[Vinayaka]

They reference their sources in those studies.

Regards Tony

Yes, but where are the studies? All you're saying is 'those studies'. That's not helpful. It's like saying 'that country.'

 

[TransmutingSoul]

We can talk about the shootings in Las Vegas.

I woke this morning to that news.

I like that President Obama tried to dissarm America. I am glad Australia made some effort to do this.

May all those that suffer Injustices be immersed in the sea of bounty.

We can say that if the advice of Baha'u'llah had been embraced, that these events would not be possible, nay, most likely never considered.

I wonder when America will see the need to dissarm?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You clearly don't understand me.. Some people say the 'Word of God' is actually the word of man. This is for any Abrahamic peoples who focus on a single prophet being the correct one. It includes Baha'i', Islamic fundamentalists, Christian fundamentalists, etc. Just because you think your prophet's word is God's word doesn't really mean it is. Yes, that is your belief, and it's okay to have that belief. But it's not fact. So all of these groups are very similar, insisting theirs is the correct view, in other words the word of God. All others ... nope, just some man.

No I fully understood you.

It is our choice the way we choose to see and do this.

God guides us to all that is good and is not exclusive of what is good.

Regards Tony