Mister Silver
Faith's Nightmare
What happened to Jeremiah? He was posting nonstop, and then he just disappeared.
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"Trump falsely accuses Obama of wiretapping his phone"
- Thread starter Jeremiahcp
- Start date
He was close. From the looks of this source it started before the Trump campaign began. From the link:
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Nope. Remember, Trump specifically accused Obama of ordering wiretaps on him at Trump Tower in NYC. No evidence whatsoever that it actually happened.
Unless you are trying to change what Trump specifically (by his own choice) claimed, there is no reasonable argument that he was right.
The English language being a flexible thing, especially coming out of Trump's mouth, it's
reasonable to assume that he didn't mean that Obama personally tapped anyone's wire.
Rather, Obama would be the one who authorized it, either tacitly or directly.
Whether or not this happened, I can't say, hence the question.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Again, Trump chose to make a very specific accusation. And, I never suggested that Obama would have had to setup the wiretaps himself. Trump claimed that Obama ordered the wiretaps. There is no evidence of that whatsoever. He could have said "Obama's administration" or "the FBI under Obama" and so on, but he chose not to. And, Trump didn't say that Manafort was tapped or even members of his campaign staff. He specifically claimed that Trump Tower was wiretapped.
How would Trump Tower, a specific building in NYC, mean anything else than Trump Tower?
How would "Obama ordered wiretaps" mean anything else than Obama ordered them?
Unless President Obama ordered Trump Tower to be wiretapped, Trump was dead wrong.
And maybe what he really meant was "Make Russia Great Again". Hard to say, given his history.
Tom
So you know that Obama never ordered or tacitly allowed the wiretapping that was previously denied?
Silly....."Make Americastan great again" had no meaning whatsoever.
It was designed to sound sort of soothing.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Well, Trump didn't claim that Obama "tacitly approved" wiretaps. He specifically said that Obama ordered them. So, whether Obama tacitly approved them or not is beyond the scope of Trump's claims.
But, there is no evidence that Obama ordered any wiretaps of Trump Tower. Do I know that he didn't? Of course not. I even suggested that I know anything of the sort. It doesn't matter in the least whether anyone can prove that Obama didn't order the wiretaps. That is an absurd standard.
When Trump makes a claim it should not be believed unless evidence is provided to back it up. It doesn't matter whether or not we know Obama didn't do this. Trump made the claim that it was a fact that he did, and has yet to provide any evidence to back it up.
Are you really saying that the mere fact that we can't prove a negative in this context somehow gives merit to Trump's claim?
Well, of course not.
Merit comes from revelations that wiretapping happened.
And since Obama was top dog, it makes the question more cromulent.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
But, if it wasn't Trump Tower, Trump would have been wrong, right?
To answer would mean looking at his quotes.
I'd rather not.
I've already said it's an open question, so is
that not acknowledgement he could be wrong?
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Fair enough. It's an open question. But, that isn't the issue. We have to hold our leaders responsible for making criminal accusations (remember, Trump claimed that Obama "illegally wiretapped" him) without evidence.
Saying he could be right would imply someone can just make anything up about Obama and we should just believe it. We already know trump towers been wired tapped for years because of Russian mafia, and that you can confirm.
https://www.metro.us/news/trump-tow...sdrop-on-russian-mafia/zsJqcv---Wwjw2GJ2Gz0r6
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Right. The question is whether Obama ordered an illegal wiretap of Trump Tower. Unless that is true, Trump was wrong. And, until he provides evidence to back up his claim, we should assume he's wrong. Don't forget, he lies on a regular basis via twitter.
If I was to be difficult, I would claim that Trump is referring to his phone, right? So the article isn't about Trump's phone, it is one of his managers prior to his run. Now, if word were to come out Trump or any in his camp had a confirmed wire tap after his announcement to run, we might be on something a bit more. In the meantime, my jury is pretty confident it's a "no" but is ready to be surprised.
You can have your issues.
And I'll have mine.
Did I say you should believe Trump's claim?
The revelation that there were wiretaps just
appeared to give his claim possible merit.
Geeze Louise....getting rather technical is inappropriate when
we're talking about a candidate with poor (IMO) language skills.
Have you noticed how sloppy he is?
You see, I make that argument when Ms. Q tells me to make dinner. I sleep downstairs now.