Just Accidental?

[Jose Fly]

Please read the next post after that one.

You're dodging. Again, why don't we see glaciers carve entire U-valleys?

 

[savagewind]

You all are saying that just because it takes time for evolution to work its magic is not proof that it can't happen.

So where are all the studies of species that reproduce often enough to demonstrate what you are saying is the truth?

 

[Jose Fly]

You all are saying that just because it takes time for evolution to work its magic is not proof that it can't happen.

So where are all the studies of species that reproduce often enough to demonstrate what you are saying is the truth?

You know, there's an old saying about these debates that's something like......getting a creationist to answer questions is like trying to nail jello to a tree during a hurricane. You're illustrating that quite well.

Again, why don't we observe glaciers carve entire U-valleys?

 

[savagewind]

What are you?


You're not making any sense. On one hand you say that if we saw a new species emerge it would "be real big news", but just above you say that evolution within a class is observable?

I realize that most living things reproduce too slowly to prove that a new life form came out of a different kind. When animal or plant is placed in a class the ancestors of it are long gone. The only proof is that change is real and sometimes powerful.

So? Why not study fast producing kinds of life? If there exists proof, you will find it there.

 

[Jose Fly]

I realize that most living things reproduce too slowly to prove that a new life form came out of a different kind.

Sorry, but "kind" is a meaningless term in this context.

So? Why not study fast producing kinds of life? If there exists proof, you will find it there.

Proof of what?

And if you're not a Christian creationist, what are you?

 

[savagewind]

You know, there's an old saying about these debates that's something like......getting a creationist to answer questions is like trying to nail jello to a tree during a hurricane. You're illustrating that quite well.

Again, why don't we observe glaciers carve entire U-valleys?

YOU don't observe it. People who are above time can. I am sure.
My imagination can observe it. I know what causes it.

We can observe it by rivers and at the ocean after a storm.

There are so many changes that needed to happen to make a one cell creature into a 37 trillion cell creature I just can't imagine it. I am sorry. It isn't as though I need to believe that God did it. I just can't believe it could have happened without God.

 

[Jose Fly]

YOU don't observe it. People who are above time can. I am sure.

What in the world are you talking about? Who is "above time"?

My imagination can observe it.

So you believe that if something can be imagined, that's the same as observing it?

I know what causes it.

And what is that?

We can observe it by rivers and at the ocean after a storm.

I'm specifically talking about glaciers.

There are so many changes that needed to happen to make a one cell creature into a 37 trillion cell creature I just can't imagine it.

So what?

I am sorry. It isn't as though I need to believe that God did it. I just can't believe it could have happened without God.

What do you believe God did?

 

[savagewind]

Sorry, but "kind" is a meaningless term in this context.

How about PHYLUM?

Proof of what?

Proof that an animal or plant of one class descended from an animal or plant from another class.

And if you're not a Christian creationist, what are you?

I have heard that I am a troll to be ignored. I am getting used to it.
Am I what respecting what? The theory of evolution? I am a skeptic.

I am sure there is something missing. You all say that the powers that be have created all life but without cooperation because cooperation requires working together toward an end.

Surely nobody believes the physical world can do that?

 

[Jose Fly]

How about PHYLUM?

So now you're saying that phylum = "kind". Fascinating.

Proof that an animal or plant of one class descended from an animal or plant from another class.

Do you understand how that sort of thing is not a singular event, but rather is the result of a very long series of speciation events?

Am I what respecting what? The theory of evolution? I am a skeptic.

So you're a Christian who is "skeptical" of evolutionary theory and instead believes in supernatural acts of God, and frames arguments around the idea of "kinds" of organisms, but you're not a Christian creationist? Yeah right.......

Just how much time and effort have you put into studying evolutionary biology?

I am sure there is something missing. You all say that the powers that be have created all life but without cooperation because cooperation requires working together toward an end.

Surely nobody believes the physical world can do that?

I don't know why you assigned that to me. I've not said anything about cooperation or working towards an end.

 

[savagewind]

So now you're saying that phylum = "kind". Fascinating.


.

You are not that stupid!

The mind can see similarities and differences.
Two things. They look the same or they look different. Some a little and some a lot.

A "kind" is something that looks like the other one. They look the same, and you can say that they might be related.

A different kind is something that nobody can say that they are related except that they both live, eat, drink, sleep and reproduce.

OK?

 

[savagewind]

Do you understand how that sort of thing is not a singular event, but rather is the result of a very long series of speciation events?

Yes. I believe that speciation is involved on Earth with the life on the Earth. Isn't this a waste of your time and my time?

 

[Jose Fly]

A "kind" is something that looks like the other one. They look the same, and you can say that they might be related.

I hope you appreciate how that's far too vague and subjective to be of any use at all.

A different kind is something that nobody can say that they are related except that they both live, eat, drink, sleep and reproduce.

Such as?

Yes. I believe that speciation is involved on Earth with the life on the Earth.

So if new species have been evolving for 4 billion years, exactly what prevents that from resulting in a new class or family?

Isn't this a waste of your time and my time?

Generally, yes. Depending on one's intent, all these discussions and debates are a waste of time. But they are entertaining now and then.

 

[savagewind]

So you're a Christian who is "skeptical" of evolutionary theory and instead believes in supernatural acts of God, and frames arguments around the idea of "kinds" of organisms, but you're not a Christian creationist? Yeah right.......

A child can recognize his mother's and his father's voice. When he hears a voice that is not his mother's voice or his father's voice he is aware that it is a different KIND!

I am not skeptical that organisms change over time. Cancer is a change over time. Cancer is real.

 

[Jose Fly]

A child can recognize his mother's and his father's voice. When he hears a voice that is not his mother's voice or his father's voice he is aware that it is a different KIND!

I am not skeptical that organisms change over time. Cancer is a change over time. Cancer is real.

So now a "kind" is something that sounds different? Sheesh.........

 

[savagewind]

So if new species have been evolving for 4 billion years, exactly what prevents that from resulting in a new class or family?

I can actually see the myriad of viable changes that would have had to occur. People have said prove how many. I am not going to do that.

I realize that it is possible that over time many changes can occur so many in fact that a new class of plant or animal emerges. OK? I can't believe that it happened ten or more million times.

 

[savagewind]

So now a "kind" is something that sounds different? Sheesh.........

Are you trying to get on the Notable list like I am trying to go up on it?

 

[Jose Fly]

I can actually see the myriad of viable changes that would have had to occur. People have said prove how many. I am not going to do that.

Why not? So far your only real argument has been an appeal to personal incredulity. If that's all you have, then I guess we can just leave it at that.

I realize that it is possible that over time many changes can occur so many in fact that a new class of plant or animal emerges. OK? I can't believe that it happened ten or more million times.

Exhibit A.....you personally can't imagine it.

Are you trying to get on the Notable list like I am trying to go up on it?

No idea what you're talking about.

 

[savagewind]

Why not? So far your only real argument has been an appeal to personal incredulity. If that's all you have, then I guess we can just leave it at that.


Exhibit A.....you personally can't imagine it.


No idea what you're talking about.

I am not the one who exhibits incredulity. I understand how evolution works and I have said so!
YOU are exhibiting it when you seem to say that God has nothing to do with it!

I believe evolution is real. YOU do not believe that God is real.

 

[savagewind]

Has anyone found out what makes the natural forces of nature cooperate for life's good?

 

[Jose Fly]

I am not the one who exhibits incredulity. I understand how evolution works and I have said so!

Incredulity: the state of being unwilling or unable to believe something.

That's exactly what you've been expressing here.

YOU are exhibiting it when you seem to say that God has nothing to do with it!

I believe evolution is real. YOU do not believe that God is real.

I've not said anything of the sort. And it's fascinating to see you go from saying you're not a creationist to now arguing for supernatural intervention by God......and be completely oblivious to the contradiction.