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Muslim scholar: Islam + violence are linked

An interesting article for a variety of reasons:

In Interview, Top Indonesian Muslim Scholar Says Stop Pretending That Orthodox Islam and Violence Aren't Linked

Western politicians should stop pretending that extremism and terrorism have nothing to do with Islam. There is a clear relationship between fundamentalism, terrorism, and the basic assumptions of Islamic orthodoxy. So long as we lack consensus regarding this matter, we cannot gain victory over fundamentalist violence within Islam.

Radical Islamic movements are nothing new. They’ve appeared again and again throughout our own history in Indonesia. The West must stop ascribing any and all discussion of these issues to “Islamophobia.” Or do people want to accuse me — an Islamic scholar — of being an Islamophobe too?

...Generations ago, we achieved a de facto consensus in Indonesia that Islamic teachings must be contextualized to reflect the ever-changing circumstances of time and place. The majority of Indonesian Muslims were — and I think still are — of the opinion that the various assumptions embedded within Islamic tradition must be viewed within the historical, political and social context of their emergence in the Middle Ages [in the Middle East] and not as absolute injunctions that must dictate Muslims’ behavior in the present

I share this desire [to combat extremism] — that’s a primary reason I’m speaking so frankly. But the approach you describe won’t work. If you refuse to acknowledge the existence of a problem, you can’t begin to solve it. One must identify the problem and explicitly state who and what are responsible for it.

...Over the past 50 years, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states have spent massively to promote their ultra-conservative version of Islam worldwide. After allowing this to go unchallenged for so many decades, the West must finally exert decisive pressure upon the Saudis to cease this behavior ...

And there's an extreme left wing whose adherents reflexively denounce any and all talk about the connections between traditional Islam, fundamentalism and violence as de facto proof of Islamophobia. This must end. A problem that is not acknowledged cannot be solved.



Some context, the organisation that this cleric represents alone has more members than there are people in the GCC Gulf States who fund the majority of extremism and have had a terrible influence all over the world. Many who seek to criticise Islam though seem to prefer siding with the Gulf Arabs as to who best represents Islam and usually phrase discussions in terms of their ideology.

Any meaningful discussion of Islam and its role around the world in the 21st C really needs to acknowledge there are multiple Islams, and treating them as being the same thing is an impediment to clear thought and understanding. Just like people reflexively crying 'Islamophobia' is.


Thoughts?
 
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Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I think this one paragraph in particular needs highlighting.

Over the past 50 years, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states have spent massively to promote their ultra-conservative version of Islam worldwide. After allowing this to go unchallenged for so many decades, the West must finally exert decisive pressure upon the Saudis to cease this behaviour ... I admire Western, especially European, politicians. Their thoughts are so wonderfully humanitarian. But we live in a time when you have to think and act realistically.
 
I think this one paragraph in particular needs highlighting.

Over the past 50 years, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states have spent massively to promote their ultra-conservative version of Islam worldwide. After allowing this to go unchallenged for so many decades, the West must finally exert decisive pressure upon the Saudis to cease this behaviour ... I admire Western, especially European, politicians. Their thoughts are so wonderfully humanitarian. But we live in a time when you have to think and act realistically.

Many people don't realise the extent to which this has caused changes in the developing world. They provide boarding schools, and even universities for free, which is very appealing to lower income families. Top students go to Saudi to train in Wahabbism and being trained in Mecca/Medina carries a lot of weight in many communities.

They also fund many mosques, political parties, aim to get their clerics onto representative boards of scholars, radio stations, internet and video resources, etc.

And then Western nations ally with their Saudis 'friends' and promote their agenda regarding Iran, which for some reason is seen as the enemy.
 

Glaurung

Denizen of Niflheim
One of my fond memories of my three weeks in Indonesia was being told about my lack of 'konsentrasi' after having lost in a chess game to a bintang drinking Muslim. He was sure to kill his food in the religiously prescribed manner but he also lived among Christians and drank beer with us. He was a lot of fun.

I can only hope that he and other Indonesian Muslims don't get sucked into Arab exported fanaticism. Perhaps for those who want it they can sequester themselves off into Aceh.
 
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Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
You'll always have these problems, around the world. You all are practicing insanity, hoping repetition will produce a different result.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
I'll just sit back and watch as the usual suspects crawl out of the woodwork to condemn this practising Muslim as an Islamophobe, an apostate, a kafir who knows nothing about Islam etc

Either that or he's subject to death by irony at the hands of Islamist extremists for daring to link their faith to their actions.
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
I'll just sit back and watch as the usual suspects crawl out of the woodwork to condemn this practising Muslim as an Islamophobe, an apostate, a kafir who knows nothing about Islam etc

Either that or he's subject to death by irony at the hands of Islamist extremists for daring to link their faith to their actions.
I was going to name one on my last post here but we both know he'll arrive and spout garbage regardless.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
It is quite obvious to me that this so-called "Muslim cleric" is an Islamophobe, an apostate, and a kafir who knows nothing about Islam!

Oops! Sorry! I was reading over someone's shoulder.
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Many people call Christianity a Religion of Peace, and it clearly isn't.
I've never heard people call Christianity that. The media doesn't jump to defend Christianity as 'The Religion of Peace' whenever some Christians do something bad. It jumps to defend Islam nearly all the time.
 
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Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Any meaningful discussion of Islam and its role around the world in the 21st C really needs to acknowledge there are multiple Islams, and treating them as being the same thing is an impediment to clear thought and understanding. Just like people reflexively crying 'Islamophobia' is.

Thoughts?

We can't judge a person by their religious beliefs alone however neither can we allow religion be accepted as an excuse for bad behavior.

We IMO can't attack the Quran, the Quran by itself does not make bad people. Teaching that the Quran is a truth which cannot be questioned couple with radical Islamic ideology makes folks feel justified in doing bad things.

True of any ideology really. Indoctrination coupled with radical views makes people feel justified it acting in despicable ways towards their fellow man.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
I appreciate the info. It's good to know Muslims can see this. The Muslim I live with says, "that's not Islam".
 
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