Trump Pardons Sheriff Joe Arpaio

[shmogie]

Where did you get that idea from?


"In response to your request for reconsideration of the decision to withdraw NCCHC accreditation from the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office, a focused survey was conducted on November 24-25, 2008. We did not find any evidence that would warrant a reversal of the prior decision of the NCCHC Accreditation Committee. Withdrawal of accreditation is affirmed."
SHERIFF LAWBREAKER: Joe Arpaio's Jails Lose Accreditation Again, and Again, and Again
___________________________________________________________________________

"Since late July, the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors has had in its possession a report from Amnesty International which harshly condemns many of Sheriff Arpaio's most well-known practices, New Times has learned.
The highly respected organization found that Maricopa County's methods of incarceration violate basic worldwide standards of human rights."
Human Plights
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

"A federal judge has sided with inmates' claims that conditions in Maricopa County jails continue to violate their constitutional rights.

U.S. District Court Judge Neil V. Wake on Wednesday modified a 1995 judgment that laid guidelines for a wide range of issues in Maricopa County jails, including medical and mental-health care, population control and record keeping.

Maricopa County sheriff's officials said they plan to comply with the judge's orders.
...

Wake effectively pared down the original 115-point decision to 16 paragraphs that outline what the Sheriff's Office must do to at least maintain constitutional standards for pretrial inmates. The judgment also requires the Sheriff's Office to submit quarterly reports to inmates' attorneys in order to show compliance.

"Sheriff Arpaio's horrendous treatment of detainees, especially those with severe medical and mental-health problems, has caused terrible suffering for years," said attorney Margaret Winter, associate director of the American Civil Liberties Union's National Prison Project.

A number of the violations included Correctional Health Services, which is required to provide medical care for inmates. Wake said CHS violated inmate rights by not giving timely and adequate assessment of health needs and not identifying and appropriately treating many detainees with serious mental illness."
Judge backs county inmates in jail case

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

"During the sweltering summer, the temperature could reach 115 or 120 degrees. I was in the tents when we hit 120. It was impossible to stay cool in the oppressive heat. Everyone would strip down to their underwear. There was no cold water, only water from vending machines; and eventually, the machines would run out. People would faint; some had heatstroke. That summer, ambulances came about three times. One man died in his bed."
Perspective | The year I spent in Joe Arpaio’s tent jail was hell. He should never walk free.




Oh no, I think his treatment of people was immoral and harmful.

Rehab works in other countries. Why can't the USA pull it off? There's got to be a problem when your country incarcerates more people than anywhere else in the free world. That doesn't sound like a system that is working well. Maybe it does to you, as you seem to think everything is peachy keen for some reason. Don't you ever wonder why your recidivism rate is so high? Or maybe you don't care?

"In Norway, fewer than 4,000 of the country's 5 million people were behind bars as of August 2014.

That makes Norway's incarceration rate just 75 per 100,000 people, compared to 707 people for every 100,000 people in the US.

On top of that, when criminals in Norway leave prison, they stay out. It has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world at 20%. The US has one of the highest: 76.6% of prisoners are re-arrested within five years.

Norway also has a relatively low level of crime compared to the US, according to the Bureau of Diplomatic Security. The majority of crimes reported to police there are theft-related incidents, and violent crime is mostly confined to areas with drug trafficking and gang problems.

Based on that information, it's safe to assume Norway's criminal justice system is doingsomething right. Few citizens there go to prison, and those who do usually go only once. So how does Norway accomplish this feat? The country relies on a concept called "restorative justice," which aims to repair the harm caused by crime rather than punish people. This system focuses on rehabilitating prisoners."

Why Norway's prison system is so successful



I will remain appalled that anyone could endorse this kind of behavior toward human beings. In regards to the "tent cities", we're not talking about murderers and rapists, we're talking about low level criminals, "illegal immigrants" and in some cases, legal immigrants that "Sheriff Joe" had racially profiled.


Apparently he did not "do it right." Lucky for him, his President doesn't care a whit about the actual "rule of law," but merely pays it lip service.

[/QUOTE]
The President invoked the rule of law as laid out in the Constitution to establish the pardon. So, the "rule of law" was followed. As to the tent citiy's, county jails only house serious offenders till they are tried, if found guilty, they go to state or federal prisons. Only "low level" offenders serve their sentences, which can be no longer than a year in a county jail. NO illegal immigrant was in tent city because of immigration status, if they volunteered to be there, they had been found guilty in a court of law just like every other inmate there. I REITERATE, they were there because they were found guilty of a crime, profiling had nothing to do with it. Those awaiting trial or awaiting trial for serious felony.s were never housed in tent city. Instead of googling what you are, if you are going to comment on how the system works, you need to learn how the system works. You, like most liberals, never said a word when obammy released numerous murderers, and released 5 terrorists that killed American soldiers for a deserter/ possible traitor. Your selective outrage in this case underwhelms me. Liberals love victims, you were legally cheated of this one, that is why you are appalled.

 

[shmogie]

Where did you get that idea from?


"In response to your request for reconsideration of the decision to withdraw NCCHC accreditation from the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office, a focused survey was conducted on November 24-25, 2008. We did not find any evidence that would warrant a reversal of the prior decision of the NCCHC Accreditation Committee. Withdrawal of accreditation is affirmed."
SHERIFF LAWBREAKER: Joe Arpaio's Jails Lose Accreditation Again, and Again, and Again
___________________________________________________________________________

"Since late July, the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors has had in its possession a report from Amnesty International which harshly condemns many of Sheriff Arpaio's most well-known practices, New Times has learned.
The highly respected organization found that Maricopa County's methods of incarceration violate basic worldwide standards of human rights."
Human Plights
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

"A federal judge has sided with inmates' claims that conditions in Maricopa County jails continue to violate their constitutional rights.

U.S. District Court Judge Neil V. Wake on Wednesday modified a 1995 judgment that laid guidelines for a wide range of issues in Maricopa County jails, including medical and mental-health care, population control and record keeping.

Maricopa County sheriff's officials said they plan to comply with the judge's orders.
...

Wake effectively pared down the original 115-point decision to 16 paragraphs that outline what the Sheriff's Office must do to at least maintain constitutional standards for pretrial inmates. The judgment also requires the Sheriff's Office to submit quarterly reports to inmates' attorneys in order to show compliance.

"Sheriff Arpaio's horrendous treatment of detainees, especially those with severe medical and mental-health problems, has caused terrible suffering for years," said attorney Margaret Winter, associate director of the American Civil Liberties Union's National Prison Project.

A number of the violations included Correctional Health Services, which is required to provide medical care for inmates. Wake said CHS violated inmate rights by not giving timely and adequate assessment of health needs and not identifying and appropriately treating many detainees with serious mental illness."
Judge backs county inmates in jail case

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

"During the sweltering summer, the temperature could reach 115 or 120 degrees. I was in the tents when we hit 120. It was impossible to stay cool in the oppressive heat. Everyone would strip down to their underwear. There was no cold water, only water from vending machines; and eventually, the machines would run out. People would faint; some had heatstroke. That summer, ambulances came about three times. One man died in his bed."
Perspective | The year I spent in Joe Arpaio’s tent jail was hell. He should never walk free.




Oh no, I think his treatment of people was immoral and harmful.

Rehab works in other countries. Why can't the USA pull it off? There's got to be a problem when your country incarcerates more people than anywhere else in the free world. That doesn't sound like a system that is working well. Maybe it does to you, as you seem to think everything is peachy keen for some reason. Don't you ever wonder why your recidivism rate is so high? Or maybe you don't care?

"In Norway, fewer than 4,000 of the country's 5 million people were behind bars as of August 2014.

That makes Norway's incarceration rate just 75 per 100,000 people, compared to 707 people for every 100,000 people in the US.

On top of that, when criminals in Norway leave prison, they stay out. It has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world at 20%. The US has one of the highest: 76.6% of prisoners are re-arrested within five years.

Norway also has a relatively low level of crime compared to the US, according to the Bureau of Diplomatic Security. The majority of crimes reported to police there are theft-related incidents, and violent crime is mostly confined to areas with drug trafficking and gang problems.

Based on that information, it's safe to assume Norway's criminal justice system is doingsomething right. Few citizens there go to prison, and those who do usually go only once. So how does Norway accomplish this feat? The country relies on a concept called "restorative justice," which aims to repair the harm caused by crime rather than punish people. This system focuses on rehabilitating prisoners."

Why Norway's prison system is so successful



I will remain appalled that anyone could endorse this kind of behavior toward human beings. In regards to the "tent cities", we're not talking about murderers and rapists, we're talking about low level criminals, "illegal immigrants" and in some cases, legal immigrants that "Sheriff Joe" had racially profiled.


Apparently he did not "do it right." Lucky for him, his President doesn't care a whit about the actual "rule of law," but merely pays it lip service.

[/QUOTE]
As to rehabilitation, as one trained in criiminology 25 years experience, I will tell you why rehabilitation won't work in the USA and why comparing us to Norway is nonsense.

Until recently, Norway has been a homogeneous society, with no racial or religious differences to spur agitation and or crime.

Norway is a socialist state, individual productivity or individual accountability is not a high priority, everyone exists at about the same income level, and "getting ahead" or establishing a business is virtually impossible.

Norway's tax rate is crushing, individual home ownership is virtually unknown, a car that would cost $25,000 here costs over $75,000 there because of tariffs to support the state, so the overwhelming method of transportation is bicycle, mo ped, or scooter.

The prison systems are able to lavish money on their programs because of the weight of taxes on their people. Taxes at a level that no American would stand for and static society that no American would stand for.

But, it is all changing for Norway now. With the hordes of moslem immigrants that they allowed in their crime rates are soaring, I read one senior Norway police official's letter saying that they now felt as though they were in a state of war. Women in city's were advised not to go out alone at night, because of the horrendous increase in rapes of Norwegian women. The economic structure is breaking down because of what must be expended in all area's to deal with these, by western standards, barbaric immigrants. Tell me in a couple of years how successful they are in rehabilitation.

 

[shmogie]

You need to read my last post. You have not stated things "perfectly accurately."

He was found guilty of profiling, he was given a contempt of court hearing for not attending a hearing on the profiling. The ONLY established fact related to the pardon that has been established in a court of law.

 

[metis]

And I think most of us see the use of stereotyping and the defense of bigotry to be morally repugnant. Even as little kids we're told to do neither.

Secondly, Obama released some prisoners only after they had served at least part of their sentence whereas Arpaio will serve nothing.

BTW, in 2005, Arpaio said it was an honor to be compared to the Ku Klux Klan. That may not bother some who excuse Arpaio's and Trump's history of bigotry, but it sure does bother some others of us.

BTW, anyone notice that Mattis said he is not going to enforce Trump's transgender ban until "further review is complete"? Apparently even he is fed up with Trump's bigotry so as to be willing to ignore him. I have a hard time believing even most Republicans would being willing to keep kissing Trump's rump if he were to fire Mattis.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The President invoked the rule of law as laid out in the Constitution to establish the pardon. So, the "rule of law" was followed. As to the tent citiy's, county jails only house serious offenders till they are tried, if found guilty, they go to state or federal prisons. Only "low level" offenders serve their sentences, which can be no longer than a year in a county jail. NO illegal immigrant was in tent city because of immigration status, if they volunteered to be there, they had been found guilty in a court of law just like every other inmate there. I REITERATE, they were there because they were found guilty of a crime, profiling had nothing to do with it. Those awaiting trial or awaiting trial for serious felony.s were never housed in tent city. Instead of googling what you are, if you are going to comment on how the system works, you need to learn how the system works. You, like most liberals, never said a word when obammy released numerous murderers, and released 5 terrorists that killed American soldiers for a deserter/ possible traitor. Your selective outrage in this case underwhelms me. Liberals love victims, you were legally cheated of this one, that is why you are appalled.

Trump did not follow the regular procedure to pardon Arpaio. Not by a long shot.


I feel that your credibility on this subject has been tainted. It's hard to take you seriously now. Especially when you keep comparing me to "most liberals" when you know nothing of my position on all this stuff you are claiming. Not to mention the inaccuracies in your posts.

 

[SkepticThinker]

As to rehabilitation, as one trained in criiminology 25 years experience, I will tell you why rehabilitation won't work in the USA and why comparing us to Norway is nonsense.

Until recently, Norway has been a homogeneous society, with no racial or religious differences to spur agitation and or crime.

Norway is a socialist state, individual productivity or individual accountability is not a high priority, everyone exists at about the same income level, and "getting ahead" or establishing a business is virtually impossible.

Norway's tax rate is crushing, individual home ownership is virtually unknown, a car that would cost $25,000 here costs over $75,000 there because of tariffs to support the state, so the overwhelming method of transportation is bicycle, mo ped, or scooter.

The prison systems are able to lavish money on their programs because of the weight of taxes on their people. Taxes at a level that no American would stand for and static society that no American would stand for.

But, it is all changing for Norway now. With the hordes of moslem immigrants that they allowed in their crime rates are soaring, I read one senior Norway police official's letter saying that they now felt as though they were in a state of war. Women in city's were advised not to go out alone at night, because of the horrendous increase in rapes of Norwegian women. The economic structure is breaking down because of what must be expended in all area's to deal with these, by western standards, barbaric immigrants. Tell me in a couple of years how successful they are in rehabilitation.

This is full of inaccuracies as well.

Home ownership in the US is lower than it is in Norway, for one example.
List of countries by home ownership rate - Wikipedia

Sorry, I can't take you seriously when you seem to be so averse to facts.

 

[shmogie]

This is full of inaccuracies as well.

Home ownership in the US is lower than it is in Norway, for one example.
List of countries by home ownership rate - Wikipedia

Sorry, I can't take you seriously when you seem to be so averse to facts.

Look at home ownership per capita. Look at homes that have been in families for generations as opposed to costs to purchase one for families starting out with no family home to fall back on. The average Norwegian worker without a family home has no hope of buying one

 

[shmogie]

Trump did not follow the regular procedure to pardon Arpaio. Not by a long shot.


I feel that your credibility on this subject has been tainted. It's hard to take you seriously now. Especially when you keep comparing me to "most liberals" when you know nothing of my position on all this stuff you are claiming. Not to mention the inaccuracies in your posts.

There is no established procedure spelled out in the Constitution. There is none that is legally binding, I feel your credibility on this subject is tainted both by your ignorance of the Constitution, and your ignorance of the law.

 

[shmogie]

And I think most of us see the use of stereotyping and the defense of bigotry to be morally repugnant. Even as little kids we're told to do neither.

Secondly, Obama released some prisoners only after they had served at least part of their sentence whereas Arpaio will serve nothing.

BTW, in 2005, Arpaio said it was an honor to be compared to the Ku Klux Klan. That may not bother some who excuse Arpaio's and Trump's history of bigotry, but it sure does bother some others of us.

BTW, anyone notice that Mattis said he is not going to enforce Trump's transgender ban until "further review is complete"? Apparently even he is fed up with Trump's bigotry so as to be willing to ignore him. I have a hard time believing even most Republicans would being willing to keep kissing Trump's rump if he were to fire Mattis.

So, your point is what ? obammy released murderers, some of which are back in jail, fact. What relevance to the law does them serving part of their sentence have ? The Constitution doesn't say anything about that. The military will do what is best for readiness. No one has a Constitutional right to serve in the military and many are denied service for a whole host of reasons. Why did you even bring this up ? It has no bearing other than your woeful attempt to agitate where there is no issue

 

[shmogie]

You need to read my last post. You have not stated things "perfectly accurately."

I repeat what I said.

 

[Nous]

No, Arpaio's contempt of court did not constitute a crime under 18 U.S. Code § 402. His constitutional rights were not violated. If his constitutional rights had been violated, we all would have known it because we would have seen him crying.

Go back to why he was supposed to be in court in the first place

Here is Judge Bolton's Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law. Arpaio was convicted of criminal contempt due to his willful defiance of Judge Snow's order that enjoined him and MCSO from “[d]etaining, holding, or arresting Latino occupants of vehicles in Maricopa Country based on a reasonable belief, without more, that such persons were in the country without authorization”. His defiance of this order does not constitute a crime for which he had a right to a trial by jury. Judge Bolton did not cite a criminal statute. His constitutional rights were not violated.

 

[Nous]

my opinion was irrelevant to the established legal facts

Apparently that is the case. I can't imagine what could be more useless than an opinion that is contradicted by the facts. You shouldn't expose the public to such nonsense.

 

[Nous]

if you know you are innocent of the charges, go for a bench trial.

There is nothing truer these days than that. It hasn't always been that way. I'm not exactly sure what's going on with that.

 

[idav]

He was found guilty of profiling, he was given a contempt of court hearing for not attending a hearing on the profiling. The ONLY established fact related to the pardon that has been established in a court of law.

There is the tens of millions of dollars he cost tax payers in civil law suits, which I've already mentioned and you blow off as not a big deal. Wrongful deaths are a big deal. The whole reason the federal government starts wondering what in the heck is going on over in AZ. Your answer something like "where's the crime" doesn't make Arpaios actions any less reprehensible. You know they only got OJ on a petty lawsuit, for murdering two people?

 

[shmogie]

Apparently that is the case. I can't imagine what could be more useless than an opinion that is contradicted by the facts. You shouldn't expose the public to such nonsense.

The facts of the issue at hand were clearly stated. I chose not to delve into the facts regarding an opinion I expressed, they exist, many understand them, my option nevertheless

 

[shmogie]

Here is Judge Bolton's Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law. Arpaio was convicted of criminal contempt due to his willful defiance of Judge Snow's order that enjoined him and MCSO from “[d]etaining, holding, or arresting Latino occupants of vehicles in Maricopa Country based on a reasonable belief, without more, that such persons were in the country without authorization”. His defiance of this order does not constitute a crime for which he had a right to a trial by jury. Judge Bolton did not cite a criminal statute. His constitutional rights were not violated.

I never said his rights were violated regarding the contempt citation, nor did I say the contempt citation was subject to a trial by jury. My point was that his dept. was enjoined, told to stop a practice a single judge considered unconstitutional, without the benefit of a trial by a jury of his peers. Grasp it, a single judge stated he was violating the Constitution, the law, In essence, he was ordered to stop a practice this judge concluded was illegal, without his having the right of having a jury weigh the facts and determine legality....... this judge branded him a "criminal", one who commits an illegal act, without a trial.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I repeat what I said.

Hey, if you want to double down on your inaccuracies, I can't stop you.

 

[shmogie]

Hey, if you want to double down on your inaccuracies, I can't stop you.

I'll triple down on the accuracies I posted. How long do you want to play this game ?

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'll triple down on the accuracies I posted. How long do you want to play this game ?

Why on earth would you want to do that? That's what I'm wondering.

An opinion based on inaccurate information is worthless, if you ask me.

 

[shmogie]

Why on earth would you want to do that? That's what I'm wondering.

An opinion based on inaccurate information is worthless, if you ask me.

Ah, you say it is inaccurate, I say it is. I shan't bother posting material from my perspective because the whole thing is over and done. So, my opinion stands, based upon information that is probably totally unavailable to you, i.e. I live in Arizona in a county adjacent to Maricopa, I know what informed people on the issue are saying. The point is moot however