How are these Great Beings explained?

[Vinayaka]

I'm still wondering if they burn an arsonist... what in the world are they going to do with adulterers?

Not to mention the backbiters. Maybe they get a snake to bite the guy's back.

 

[RoaringSilence]

Ottoman Empire=bahu'ullah (reza aslan, the yung turks ,cnn +++

 

[Vinayaka]

Have you followed some of the arguments going on here? 'Cause I'd like to hear what you have to say about Jainism being excluded by Baha'is as having a "manifestation" from God as a founder. I'm not sure, but I think they might consider Jainism as only a sect of Hinduism.

I'd like to hear that too. But my version of Hinduism isn't mentioned at all either. Hinduism, the vast array of faiths only termed Hinduism by outsiders trying to describe the people beyond the Indus, is just lumped together as one faith. Personally, I'm quite happy to be excluded, as I don't really want to be part of it anyway.

Mahavira is probably like Confucius, not a total prophet, but not a bad guy either.

 

[CG Didymus]

That's confusing.

If I look in the mirror, I'm looking at a reflection of myself. If I were Krishna, Krishna would be looking at a reflection of himself. Since Krishna is god, I'd assume we cannot see him just as we cannot see the god of abraham.

So if krishna is a reflection of the god of abraham, what about Krishna makes him Krishna?​

If he is a reflection of the GOA, wouldn't it make more sense that there is only one person? The reflection is not another god. It's just a reflection.

Which is the correct god looking in the mirror? Krishna or the god of abraham?​

-

With Moses, Moses is a human being. He has flaws. He went up the mountain to talk to god. God gave a message to Moses. Moses is still human when he received the message. The message was inscribed on physical tablets to which Moses can hold. Since god was hidden and Moses was not, Moses cannot be god.

If Moses is a reflection of god, he would not need to go up the mountain. His brother was the one that talked with the pharaoh. If he were god's reflection, as people think christ is, he would not be afraid and let his brother speak for him. As a prophet he is also human.

Unless Moses is talking to himself through his own reflection, is god himself, how can Moses, a human being, be a reflection of a creator-spirit?​

-

Now Bahaullah, the human, has not been born yet. Each of us have a spirit. Unless Bahaullah is god/human, how is Moses talking to someone who has not yet been born?​

Kind of like John baptizing jesus before he was born because he thinks he is talking to him through Moses before jesus was born to tell him the laws from moses himself.

--
The Jews believe they talk to the creator not jesus. So, Moses would have known he was talking to the creator an not Bahaullah. According to scripture, because god's back was turned (or you cannot see a spirit), there is no way to know that the spirit is a human. By definition, once the spirit becomes a human Bauhaullah, Christ, or Moses, he is no longer god.

An incarnation maybe. Paganistic, really. But not god.

At least not by every other abrahamic god religion. I just wonder the history of Bahai to where the new faith takes much interest in some major religions that did no exist before Paganism and other religions that are less political than religions today.

That was a parody of some of the things the Baha'is have said here. Really, one of them said Moses was talking to Baha'u'llah in the burning bush. I agree with everything you have said on this post.

The Baha'i mirror analogy almost works, but as you've pointed out, Moses was not a perfectly polished mirror reflecting God. And like I've said a few times, neither was Adam, Noah, Abraham and any other Jewish patriarch they want to include as being a "manifestation". Jews don't even make them anything more than men.

 

[RoaringSilence]

Ottoman Empire=bahu'ullah (reza aslan, the yung turks ,cnn +++

Ottoman Empire=bahu'ullah (reza aslan, Mehdi hasan ,the yung turks ,cnn , al jazeera + qatar)

 

[Vinayaka]

There is only nine people on the UHJ, for him to say it "frees" women from worrying about serving? But then they might get appointed to some Baha'i position. So what's the difference, elected or appointed?

I asked about who does the appointing, but have yet to get an answer. I kind of like the principle thay have for elections though. No nominations and all are eligible. Ideally no campaigning either, and select the best man for the job.

I remember a school in my school district that had a principal resign with about 2 months left. So they needed an interim, and the staff had a secret ballot to vote for a current staff member, so they selected the guy they all considered would do the best job. He accepted the temporary position, but then the next year, because he didn't have the qualifying degrees, the old boys club hired an idiot from outside, but had a Masters degree. So I actually would appreciate this way of electing people.

 

[CG Didymus]

Actually, the more I reflect on it, I think the Baha'i' will end up as a defunct religion in maybe another 100 years or less. It's just so illogical and full of contradictions. With the internet now, and the inability to keep all of irrational this stuff hidden, I can't see much else happening. Unless of course the House of Justice makes some really dramatic changes to policy, an overhaul. But that would be very unlikely.

Christianity wasn't doing much until Constantine. He had a vision of a cross in the sky and won a battle and made Christianity the official religion of Rome.

That's kind of what the Baha'is are expecting. The world leaders will adopt Baha'i principles.

 

[CG Didymus]

No. I quote Abdulbaha:


"Buddha also established a new religion, and Confucius renewed morals and ancient virtues...."

"Thou hast written regarding Buddha and Confucius. Buddha was an illustrious personage. Confucius became the cause of civilization, advancement and prosperity for the people of China. Now it is not the time when we discuss concerning the stations and positions of those who are passed away. We must concentrate our attention upon the present. What hath transpired in a former time is past. Now is the time when we restrict our discussion to the Most Great Luminary of Peace and Salvation in the Age, to talk of the Blessed Perfection [Baha’o’llah] and to voice His exhortations, behests and teachings. Buddha and Confucius were kings in bygone ages who have disappeared. Their sovereignty in this world is ended and their cycle is completed. Now the Throne of the Kingdom of Abha is established and the Blessed Perfection is sitting upon the Throne of Grandeur. We must raise this Call, promulgate the Word of God and live in accord with the teachings and advices of the Beauty of Abha."

So now it sounds like Buddha wasn't a manifestation but only a king? But were they "Great Beings"?

 

[Vinayaka]

Christianity wasn't doing much until Constantine. He had a vision of a cross in the sky and won a battle and made Christianity the official religion of Rome.

That's kind of what the Baha'is are expecting. The world leaders will adopt Baha'i principles.

Not saying it couldn't happen, or at least the Baha'i's taking credit for any peaceful move. They took credit for Gandhi earlier in the thread, claiming the Mahatma got his non-violence philosophy from Baha'u'llah, and not from the fact he was born a Hindu and ahimsa is a cornerstone of Hindu philosophy.

Personally, I don't really care about who influenced who.

 

[RoaringSilence]

I asked about who does the appointing, but have yet to get an answer. I kind of like the principle thay have for elections though. No nominations and all are eligible. Ideally no campaigning either, and select the best man for the job.

I remember a school in my school district that had a principal resign with about 2 months left. So they needed an interim, and the staff had a secret ballot to vote for a current staff member, so they selected the guy they all considered would do the best job. He accepted the temporary position, but then the next year, because he didn't have the qualifying degrees, the old boys club hired an idiot from outside, but had a Masters degree. So I actually would appreciate this way of electing people.

Ottoman Empire=bahai-- Reza Aslan, Mehdi hasan ,the yung turks ,cnn , Al Jazeera + Qatar+ Turkey+ pakistan +ISI


Vinayak they're using your confrontations to sap info..you are a tool ..just like i was.. this is an intelligence created entity ..by probing them you are giving away info to india's demise (ghazwa -e hind) by the hands of turks yet again .

Ghazwa-e-Hind refers to an indoctrinated view of a final apocalyptic war in which India will be conquered by a jihadi army. All soldiers of this army are guaranteed a place in heaven.

This term is freely used in jihadi circles and on the web, but is considered bizarre by others.

Sources say the security establishment has been on the trail of launch-pads being set up within the country, and is also in touch with its counterparts in West Asia in order to crack the growing network.

An intelligence report on India being used a hunting ground for global jihad reveals al-Qaeda‘s diabolic roadmap.

 

[CG Didymus]

I asked about who does the appointing, but have yet to get an answer. I kind of like the principle thay have for elections though. No nominations and all are eligible. Ideally no campaigning either, and select the best man for the job.

I remember a school in my school district that had a principal resign with about 2 months left. So they needed an interim, and the staff had a secret ballot to vote for a current staff member, so they selected the guy they all considered would do the best job. He accepted the temporary position, but then the next year, because he didn't have the qualifying degrees, the old boys club hired an idiot from outside, but had a Masters degree. So I actually would appreciate this way of electing people.

Well, when I was hanging around the Baha'is in the 70's, each district would elect a delegate to go to a National Convention to elect the nine people, women included, to serve on the National Spiritual Assembly. I think it might be the National Assemblies that elect the men to serve on the UHJ.

I knew one lady that was elected every year to be a delegate. So I don't think it's a perfect system. She'd been there before. Lots of people knew her, so she got enough votes year after year. I don't know, but I might suspect that the same people get voted in a lot.

 

[CG Didymus]

Not saying it couldn't happen, or at least the Baha'i's taking credit for any peaceful move. They took credit for Gandhi earlier in the thread, claiming the Mahatma got his non-violence philosophy from Baha'u'llah, and not from the fact he was born a Hindu and ahimsa is a cornerstone of Hindu philosophy.

Personally, I don't really care about who influenced who.

If he had become a Baha'i, they probably would not have allowed him to do his civil disobedience.

 

[CG Didymus]

Not to mention the backbiters. Maybe they get a snake to bite the guy's back.

No, that's not good enough. They must be bitten on the backside, so they cannot sit without feeling the pain of their erroring ways.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

So now it sounds like Buddha wasn't a manifestation but only a king? But were they "Great Beings"?

You know, King is metaphorical in this case.

From Bahai point of view, Buddha was a Manifestation, having same station of Jesus:

"You will realize that if the Divine Light of Truth shone in Jesus Christ, it also shone in Moses and Buddha. This is what is meant by the search after truth.". Abdulbaha

Confusius was not a Prophet.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It's just so illogical and full of contradictions.

Why is it that grade 1 Children grasp the concept and embrace the Oneness with such enthusiasm?

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That was a parody of some of the things the Baha'is have said here. Really, one of them said Moses was talking to Baha'u'llah in the burning bush. I agree with everything you have said on this post.

The Baha'i mirror analogy almost works, but as you've pointed out, Moses was not a perfectly polished mirror reflecting God. And like I've said a few times, neither was Adam, Noah, Abraham and any other Jewish patriarch they want to include as being a "manifestation". Jews don't even make them anything more than men.

Exactly. My biggest issue when I first came on this thread wasnt to tell bahai belief is wrong (my motive). I was queationing their authority and right to reinterpret another persons faith. If the Jews, Hindu, Christian, and even a Muslim came to correct them, why wouldnthey overlook their views when they know the faith more than bahai.

Loverofbumanity said in the beginning why would they eed to ask permission when the interpretation they received is from god.

The second issue is the logic. I asked i
@InvestigateTruth how can a person give a meszage to god 1, who is an incarnation of god 2, who is an incarnation of god 3, who, god 3 is supposedly the one who sent the message at the same time as receiving with different characterstics, nature, and purpose.

The other post said it better. Too lazy to find it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Why is it that grade 1 Children grasp the concept and embrace the Oneness with such enthusiasm?

Regards Tony

Children fight over "whats theirs" because in the US we are taught that individuality is the key to freedom. Children understand oneness when "we as a group" are free to be who we are without having a tie between our oppressors.

Deaf children had oneness within their community because they can communicatenwith each other. Onenezs you are talking Bout is all humanity. Culturally Deaf would be insulted if you made them One with hearing culture.

LGBTQ isnt just a political view. Like Deaf, our views come from how we identify and like experiences. When you unify me with someone whose transgender or a transgender with someone whose, asexual, theres a problem. The unity youre talking about only works if everyone agrees with the same foundation.

Teachers usually calm children down and ask what each child (and for me adults) have in common so that we learn about each other.

How do you learn about another person if they are a reflection of yourself?

How do you form unity if you cant agree hat he namez you guys are uzing are core of these religions beliefs?

How can you find unity if you dont address differencea that cause confliction rather tha offer similarities that are like covering icing over a cake that hasnt been cooked in full?

Children know the dofference when their rights have been violated. Adults know because of our oppressors. Thats how we learn who we are as communities and individuals.

Children are taught peace-making not unification.

Children dont know the concept of unity because their differences override that. That is okay.

That is what makez us human.

Theze differences are Who we are not names.

In america, that is how our school system teaches us. Minorities like myself will have this all through adulthood.

Its not meant to find division and negativity. Im not political. When you address humanity, you arent addressing a reflection of yourself.

Children know the difference. I dont know about other countries since everyone isnt a reflection of ourselves. Its interezting thzt LGBTQ and Deaf history is universal. We share a lot in common with our peers worldwide.

With our peers.

I wouldnt associate my spirit with someone who maxe their life career in murder. We respect people for their values beyond names. No reflection. Totally different person.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@Tony Bristow-Stagg

You dont need to reply. Just sayin'

 

[RoaringSilence]

Exactly. My biggest issue when I first came on this thread wasnt to tell bahai belief is wrong (my motive). I was queationing their authority and right to reinterpret another persons faith. If the Jews, Hindu, Christian, and even a Muslim came to correct them, why wouldnthey overlook their views when they know the faith more than bahai..

carla , this is the vulnerability which is inherent . let me give you vision ..say these guys say you are wrong to see x as x so see x as y and you ve fixed the problem.

According to them god = anal retentive and dumb. he cannot see the innocence of a banana vendor's love for see'ing god's love in everything. by doing this the joe the banana vendor is connected to god in the way which is within his comfort zone and comes natural.
The anal retentive god is angry jealous and never satisfied.. coz he cannot understand why is this guy happy. ..he has nothing..dirty clothes ..poor smelly ..and yet he is happy.. i have a belly full of beef , and all the riches of the world ..why he is friendly to me even after i robbed him..and his people..why does he welcome me after i stole his wealth...broke his temples... now i wanna snatch this poor man's happy ness ..


http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/3c492e35d...armers-market-in-pondicherry-india-b5r79h.jpg

 

[Unveiled Artist]

carla , this is the vulnerability which is inherent . let me give you vision ..say these guys say you are wrong to see x as x so see x as y and you ve fixed the problem.

According to them god = anal retentive and dumb. he cannot see the innocence of a banana vendor's love for see'ing god's love in everything. by doing this the joe the banana vendor is connected to god in the way which is within his comfort zone and comes natural.
The anal retentive god is angry jealous and never satisfied.. coz he cannot understand why is this guy happy. ..he has nothing..dirty clothes ..poor smelly ..and yet he is happy.. i have a belly full of beef , and all the riches of the world ..why he is friendly to me even after i robbed him..and his people..why does he welcome me after i stole his wealth...broke his temples... now i wanna snatch this poor man's happy ness ..

Haha. You lost me.

It's a personal bias. They can explain and quote it to the cows come come, but if you told a LGBTQ, Deaf, Pagan, any minority religious, a woman back in the 1940s or so, Blacks, and so forth that we have the same inner core as our oppressors, they won't be causing world peace but division. No separate but equal. No "we are all the same but we respect your differences." No "we respect your differences because we are all the same."

We respect your differences because we are all different.

That is okay.

Once everyone starts unifying people and justifying it by offering their own version of peace (which whites did all throughout our US and neighboring ally history), we'd keep causing division between the classes.

Instead of reinventing the wheel, ask people what they believe and take their beliefs as facts. I can never believe in a religion that does or did the opposite of what they promote.

Illogical Dr.