Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Should be interesting.
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Noah's Arc and the Flood?
- Thread starter shunyadragon
- Start date
Mountain building does not occur quickly. The rate of mountain building still occurs today at a measured rate in the Himalayas that conforms with geologic history of millions of years, it is a young mountain range still forming by the collision of the subcontinent of India colliding with Asia.
Should be interesting.
Yes and documented by archaeological excavations and literally thousands of well logs looking for oil, which is my job as a geologist and well drilling supervisor in hundreds of wells in Appalachia. I could follow out crops of the Greenbrier limestone and associated limey shale with marine fossils as the formations extended under ground in the Appalachia Mountains.
The same is true for the coal seems and associated sedimentary rocks of Appalachia full of fossils outcropping at the surface. This is the personal testimony of twenty plus years of a drill well supervisor, and sampling the coal and sedimentary rocks at the outcrops in strip mine and cliff outcrops. .
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Source: Lost Civilization May Have Existed Beneath the Persian Gulf:
This map reveals the Arabian Peninsula with regions that were exposed as sea levels fell, and so became environmental refuges, possibly for some of the earliest humans out of Africa.
Credit: Current Anthropology.
This map reveals the Arabian Peninsula with regions that were exposed as sea levels fell,
and so became environmental refuges, possibly for some of the earliest humans out of Africa.
Veiled beneath the Persian Gulf, a once-fertile landmass may have supported some of the earliest humans outside Africa some 75,000 to 100,000 years ago, a new review of research suggests.
At its peak, the floodplain now below the Gulf would have been about the size of Great Britain, and then shrank as water began to flood the area. Then, about 8,000 years ago, the land would have been swallowed up by the Indian Ocean, the review scientist said.
The study, which is detailed in the December issue of the journal Current Anthropology, has broad implications for aspects of human history. For instance, scientists have debated over when early modern humans exited Africa, with dates as early as 125,000 years ago and as recent as 60,000 years ago (the more recent date is the currently accepted paradigm), according to study researcher Jeffrey Rose, an archaeologist at the University of Birmingham in the U.K.
"I think Jeff's theory is bold and imaginative, and hopefully will shake things up," Robert Carter of Oxford Brookes University in the U.K. told LiveScience. "It would completely rewrite our understanding of the out-of-Africa migration. It is far from proven, but Jeff and others will be developing research programs to test the theory."
Viktor Cerny of the Archaeogenetics Laboratory, the Institute of Archaeology, in Prague, called Rose's finding an "excellent theory," in an e-mail to LiveScience, though he also points out the need for more research to confirm it.
The findings have sparked discussion among researchers, including Carter and Cerny, who were allowed to provide comments within the research paper, about who exactly the humans were who occupied the Gulf basin.
"Given the presence of Neanderthal communities in the upper reaches of the Tigris and Euphrates River, as well as in the eastern Mediterranean region, this may very well have been the contact zone between moderns and Neanderthals," Rose told LiveScience. In fact, recent evidence from the sequencing of the Neanderthal genome suggests interbreeding, meaning we are part caveman.
Watery refuge
The Gulf Oasis would have been a shallow inland basin exposed from about 75,000 years ago until 8,000 years ago, forming the southern tip of the Fertile Crescent, according to historical sea-level records.
And it would have been an ideal refuge from the harsh deserts surrounding it, with fresh water supplied by the Tigris, Euphrates, Karun and Wadi Baton Rivers, as well as by upwelling springs, Rose said. And during the last ice age when conditions were at their driest, this basin would've been at its largest.
In fact, in recent years, archaeologists have turned up evidence of a wave of human settlements along the shores of the Gulf dating to about 7,500 years ago.
"Where before there had been but a handful of scattered hunting camps, suddenly, over 60 new archaeological sites appear virtually overnight," Rose said. "These settlements boast well-built, permanent stone houses, long-distance trade networks, elaborately decorated pottery, domesticated animals, and even evidence for one of the oldest boats in the world."
Rather than quickly evolving settlements, Rose thinks precursor populations did exist but have remained hidden beneath the Gulf.
Source
© Copyright Original Source
- MORE
This map reveals the Arabian Peninsula with regions that were exposed as sea levels fell, and so became environmental refuges, possibly for some of the earliest humans out of Africa.
Credit: Current Anthropology.
This map reveals the Arabian Peninsula with regions that were exposed as sea levels fell,
and so became environmental refuges, possibly for some of the earliest humans out of Africa.
Veiled beneath the Persian Gulf, a once-fertile landmass may have supported some of the earliest humans outside Africa some 75,000 to 100,000 years ago, a new review of research suggests.
At its peak, the floodplain now below the Gulf would have been about the size of Great Britain, and then shrank as water began to flood the area. Then, about 8,000 years ago, the land would have been swallowed up by the Indian Ocean, the review scientist said.
The study, which is detailed in the December issue of the journal Current Anthropology, has broad implications for aspects of human history. For instance, scientists have debated over when early modern humans exited Africa, with dates as early as 125,000 years ago and as recent as 60,000 years ago (the more recent date is the currently accepted paradigm), according to study researcher Jeffrey Rose, an archaeologist at the University of Birmingham in the U.K.
"I think Jeff's theory is bold and imaginative, and hopefully will shake things up," Robert Carter of Oxford Brookes University in the U.K. told LiveScience. "It would completely rewrite our understanding of the out-of-Africa migration. It is far from proven, but Jeff and others will be developing research programs to test the theory."
Viktor Cerny of the Archaeogenetics Laboratory, the Institute of Archaeology, in Prague, called Rose's finding an "excellent theory," in an e-mail to LiveScience, though he also points out the need for more research to confirm it.
The findings have sparked discussion among researchers, including Carter and Cerny, who were allowed to provide comments within the research paper, about who exactly the humans were who occupied the Gulf basin.
"Given the presence of Neanderthal communities in the upper reaches of the Tigris and Euphrates River, as well as in the eastern Mediterranean region, this may very well have been the contact zone between moderns and Neanderthals," Rose told LiveScience. In fact, recent evidence from the sequencing of the Neanderthal genome suggests interbreeding, meaning we are part caveman.
Watery refuge
The Gulf Oasis would have been a shallow inland basin exposed from about 75,000 years ago until 8,000 years ago, forming the southern tip of the Fertile Crescent, according to historical sea-level records.
And it would have been an ideal refuge from the harsh deserts surrounding it, with fresh water supplied by the Tigris, Euphrates, Karun and Wadi Baton Rivers, as well as by upwelling springs, Rose said. And during the last ice age when conditions were at their driest, this basin would've been at its largest.
In fact, in recent years, archaeologists have turned up evidence of a wave of human settlements along the shores of the Gulf dating to about 7,500 years ago.
"Where before there had been but a handful of scattered hunting camps, suddenly, over 60 new archaeological sites appear virtually overnight," Rose said. "These settlements boast well-built, permanent stone houses, long-distance trade networks, elaborately decorated pottery, domesticated animals, and even evidence for one of the oldest boats in the world."
Rather than quickly evolving settlements, Rose thinks precursor populations did exist but have remained hidden beneath the Gulf.
Source
© Copyright Original Source
There are no soft fossils in these formations.
Yes, your responses do not represent coherent responses to the flood question based on the objective evidence.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
*shrugs*
What evidence?
This is your thread, the burden of proof is on you.
What evidence?
This is your thread, the burden of proof is on you.
What precisely are you talking about? Your one line sentences are too brief to make any sense. What soft fossils? There no soft fossils. What we have are a few impressions of sift bodies on clay or mud. The mud itself hardened and petrified, preserving the impressions. The soft bodies themselves did not survive at all.
Your altitude change question has been answered. Which part of the answer did you not understand? Let me be emphatic. In the last 3 billion years, there has never been a time when large dry land continents did not exist. Every age has hundreds of sediments and mineral deposits that ONLY form on dry lands, rivers, lakes, coasts and deserts. And during the time humans lived, last million years, sea levels have been lower than what is today... as much of water had been locked up in giant ice sheets. There has not been a global flood, and that is 100% certain.
You claimed soft fossils have been found. Either demonstrate marine soft fossils or retract the claim.*shrugs*
What evidence?
This is your thread, the burden of proof is on you.
james bond
Well-Known Member
Source: Lost Civilization May Have Existed Beneath the Persian Gulf:
- MORE
This map reveals the Arabian Peninsula with regions that were exposed as sea levels fell, and so became environmental refuges, possibly for some of the earliest humans out of Africa.
Credit: Current Anthropology.
This map reveals the Arabian Peninsula with regions that were exposed as sea levels fell,
and so became environmental refuges, possibly for some of the earliest humans out of Africa.
Veiled beneath the Persian Gulf, a once-fertile landmass may have supported some of the earliest humans outside Africa some 75,000 to 100,000 years ago, a new review of research suggests.
At its peak, the floodplain now below the Gulf would have been about the size of Great Britain, and then shrank as water began to flood the area. Then, about 8,000 years ago, the land would have been swallowed up by the Indian Ocean, the review scientist said.
The study, which is detailed in the December issue of the journal Current Anthropology, has broad implications for aspects of human history. For instance, scientists have debated over when early modern humans exited Africa, with dates as early as 125,000 years ago and as recent as 60,000 years ago (the more recent date is the currently accepted paradigm), according to study researcher Jeffrey Rose, an archaeologist at the University of Birmingham in the U.K.
"I think Jeff's theory is bold and imaginative, and hopefully will shake things up," Robert Carter of Oxford Brookes University in the U.K. told LiveScience. "It would completely rewrite our understanding of the out-of-Africa migration. It is far from proven, but Jeff and others will be developing research programs to test the theory."
Viktor Cerny of the Archaeogenetics Laboratory, the Institute of Archaeology, in Prague, called Rose's finding an "excellent theory," in an e-mail to LiveScience, though he also points out the need for more research to confirm it.
The findings have sparked discussion among researchers, including Carter and Cerny, who were allowed to provide comments within the research paper, about who exactly the humans were who occupied the Gulf basin.
"Given the presence of Neanderthal communities in the upper reaches of the Tigris and Euphrates River, as well as in the eastern Mediterranean region, this may very well have been the contact zone between moderns and Neanderthals," Rose told LiveScience. In fact, recent evidence from the sequencing of the Neanderthal genome suggests interbreeding, meaning we are part caveman.
Watery refuge
The Gulf Oasis would have been a shallow inland basin exposed from about 75,000 years ago until 8,000 years ago, forming the southern tip of the Fertile Crescent, according to historical sea-level records.
And it would have been an ideal refuge from the harsh deserts surrounding it, with fresh water supplied by the Tigris, Euphrates, Karun and Wadi Baton Rivers, as well as by upwelling springs, Rose said. And during the last ice age when conditions were at their driest, this basin would've been at its largest.
In fact, in recent years, archaeologists have turned up evidence of a wave of human settlements along the shores of the Gulf dating to about 7,500 years ago.
"Where before there had been but a handful of scattered hunting camps, suddenly, over 60 new archaeological sites appear virtually overnight," Rose said. "These settlements boast well-built, permanent stone houses, long-distance trade networks, elaborately decorated pottery, domesticated animals, and even evidence for one of the oldest boats in the world."
Rather than quickly evolving settlements, Rose thinks precursor populations did exist but have remained hidden beneath the Gulf.
Source
© Copyright Original Source
>>© Copyright Original Source<<
Is this your own copyrighted material?
Creationists say there are all these flood stories around the world because floods can kill the most people and is based on Noah's global flood.
That global flood never happened. That much is certain.
Native
Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
COSMOLOGICAL OR GEOLOGICAL FLOD MYTH?
Of course we have tectonic and earthquake motions on the Earth which over time have deposited all kinds of fossile material in all geological levels on the Earth.
Indeed so. But I wouldn´t call such historical events for "myths" as in the Myths of Creation which is closely connected to the Flood Myths. IMO this myth deals with a cosmogonical and cosmological description of the creation of the local cosmos, describing and marking this with all kinds of symbolics found on and above the Earth. This demands of course significant knowledge of both areas and in the case of the creation story, also a mythical knowledge of the celestial imageries.
We all live on the same planet Earth, in the same Solar System, in the same Milky Way galaxy and in the same local part of the observable Universe. This fact provides the very similar global Stories of Creation and to a large extend also the similar symbolics.
Take for instants the imagery of the Milky Way grey/white band and its contours, which is observable all around the Earth. How would our ancestors describe this? Of course they used different phenomena from their local area.
This is why the Milky Way got it´s milky name, taken both from the female and animal milky qualities. They of course also used their local river in order to depict the celestial Milky Way structure. And because of the large Milky Way contours floating on the night Sky, our ancestors called this: The Heavenly River of Milk. the Great River or the Great Flood in the Sky,
- If having no clues of the celestial myths and its cosmological symbolism, modern scholars of course have no other choises than to read the celestial tellings as geographical matters only. In this way The Celestial Flood which runs all around and above the Earth is misinterpreted as a geological and geographical flood running all over and on the Earth.
My conclusion:
The Flood Myth has nothing to do with any "divine and dualistic revenge on humans". It is a very natural and cosmological description of the celestial imagery of the Milky Way River where the Noa Arc resembles the hemisphere crescent contours of the Milky Way "sailing on the celestial river" between the entire celestial imagery of animals and humans.
Some Links:
Milky Way (mythology) - Wikipedia
List of names for the Milky Way - Wikipedia
Flood myth - Wikipedia
List of flood myths - Wikipedia
Ancient Science. The Ancient and native Way of Knowledge
Of course we have tectonic and earthquake motions on the Earth which over time have deposited all kinds of fossile material in all geological levels on the Earth.
Indeed so. But I wouldn´t call such historical events for "myths" as in the Myths of Creation which is closely connected to the Flood Myths. IMO this myth deals with a cosmogonical and cosmological description of the creation of the local cosmos, describing and marking this with all kinds of symbolics found on and above the Earth. This demands of course significant knowledge of both areas and in the case of the creation story, also a mythical knowledge of the celestial imageries.
We all live on the same planet Earth, in the same Solar System, in the same Milky Way galaxy and in the same local part of the observable Universe. This fact provides the very similar global Stories of Creation and to a large extend also the similar symbolics.
Take for instants the imagery of the Milky Way grey/white band and its contours, which is observable all around the Earth. How would our ancestors describe this? Of course they used different phenomena from their local area.
This is why the Milky Way got it´s milky name, taken both from the female and animal milky qualities. They of course also used their local river in order to depict the celestial Milky Way structure. And because of the large Milky Way contours floating on the night Sky, our ancestors called this: The Heavenly River of Milk. the Great River or the Great Flood in the Sky,
- If having no clues of the celestial myths and its cosmological symbolism, modern scholars of course have no other choises than to read the celestial tellings as geographical matters only. In this way The Celestial Flood which runs all around and above the Earth is misinterpreted as a geological and geographical flood running all over and on the Earth.
My conclusion:
The Flood Myth has nothing to do with any "divine and dualistic revenge on humans". It is a very natural and cosmological description of the celestial imagery of the Milky Way River where the Noa Arc resembles the hemisphere crescent contours of the Milky Way "sailing on the celestial river" between the entire celestial imagery of animals and humans.
Some Links:
Milky Way (mythology) - Wikipedia
List of names for the Milky Way - Wikipedia
Flood myth - Wikipedia
List of flood myths - Wikipedia
Ancient Science. The Ancient and native Way of Knowledge
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Shunny, you don't have to place that story specifically it's here in the northwest with the Missoula floods in montana/idaho/Washington/oregon. What's interesting is that it places the actual story long before writing and civilization as we know it today. Its as if the story is "how did modern civization start". A sort of We stopped paying attention to nature and it destroyed mankind story. Its very rooted in aboriginal pre literate cultures, and it understood through the false lens of literacy. We today have an unwavering fantasy that somehow literacy is the magicical itself, it's not, and it can be profoundly confused. certainly secularism should be able to see that in religious curiously, but secularism cannot because secularism is a literate extention of religion itself. The Noah story is impossible to read correctly through the lens of literacy itself. Its exactly the same as trying to divine the melody to a song by only reading the lyrics. Impossible but self convincing. Something is profoundly amiss in religion in this regards.
The flood in the Bible is probably based upon other flood stories but takes them in a very different direction morally.
Genesis sets up symbols first in chapter 1, preparing an extra special lesson to be drawn from the flood story. Due to the symbols I think the water represents lawlessness and chaos, and the story is warning not to abandon justice and law. In the story the LORD is holding back the waters which constantly threaten to destroy all people, and we are all sandwiched between water above and below and surrounded on all sides. That is, we are surrounded by lawlessness and chaos, and they are destroying the world but not us if we go into the ark. Notice the ark saves Noah and his family from the flood, just as the ark in the temple saves Israel from chaos and lawlessness. Noah and his family stay safe in the ark, and the Jews put their lives into their ark. Ark = Ark
*shrugs*
What evidence?
This is your thread, the burden of proof is on you.
This is not a logical argument based on proof.
I cited the archaeological and geologic evidence for Tigris Euphrates Flood. There is no archaeological evidence for any form of Biblical Flood.
If you believe there is any evidence for a literal flood as described in the Bible please present it.
I never claimed soft fossils were ever found????
Simply click on Source, and you will see the source of the copyrighted material.
Not you, syncretic. Sorry for confusion. He claimed something about soft fossils saying they were found and shows inundation is recent.
The Missoula floods are not remotely related in time, place nor cause to the Biblical account of the flood. Why bring it up?
There is no evidence that humanity was ever destroyed in the Biblical time frame. The archaeological evidence indicates it is a part of the history of the beginning and evolution of civilization.
Nothing magical here, Whose we?!?!?! There is no unwavering fantasy about literacy is the magical itself. You need to provide more explanation.
Needs clarification. This is confusing.
First, not all cultures have a worldwide flood mythology.
There is no native Celtic flood myth.
Second, Catastrophic floods in ancient history can mostly be dated and described as regional or local floods for example: The catastrophic flood story in China is recorded as dated to a specific Yellow River Valley flood that can be dated by geologic and archaeological evidence.
From: Geologic Evidence May Support Chinese Flood Legend
"Nearly 4,000 years ago, a landslide sent boulders and sediment tumbling into a valley of the Yellow River. The carnage created a massive earthen dam some 660 feet (200 meters) tall, cutting off the river for months.
When that dam finally burst and the river broke free, a massive flood raged across the countryside—and potentially altered the course of Chinese history.
That’s the story told by sediments and archaeological remains described Thursday in a provocative new study published in Science. If correct, the geologic evidence provides a kernel of truth to one of the country’s most important legends: a great flood that paved the way for the Xia, China’s semi-mythical first dynasty.
“Its importance is just like the story of Noah’s flood in the Western world,” says study leader Qinglong Wu of China’s Peking University.
According to the legend, ancient China held a vast watery landscape that took decades to make livable, largely through the efforts of a hero named Yu. For his work, he was rewarded with political power, ultimately founding the Xia dynasty."
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Desert Snake
Veteran Member
You must not know what Celtic means.