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Featured Noah's Arc and the Flood?

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by shunyadragon, Jun 16, 2017.

  1. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
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    Even though the Bible is not literal history there is a basis in history for may of the events of history. Even though the flood as described in the Bible did not happen there was likely a catastrophic event that the account was based on,

    Based on the archaeological and geology evidence, and earliest flood accounts, I believe it is related to memories of catastrophic flooding of the Tigris Euphrates River Valley. Because of the potential of wide spread catastrophic flooding in these valleys up to hundreds of square miles can be flooded particularly in the lower flood plain and delta, it could appear to the people in the valley as the world was indeed mostly covered in water.

    I will provide archaeological and geology (geomorphology) references to support this.
     
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  2. syncretic

    syncretic Square circlist

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    Flood stories are from all over, the sea fossils I have found at higher elevation, indicate a flood. The standard explanation is that the land folded up from underneath; great theory, but then why arent those fossils found at lower altitude, in the same region. If they are found, they should be in far more quantity. If the water level was higher, then that refutes the argument that the sea level couldnt have gotten that high.
     
    #2 syncretic, Jun 16, 2017
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  3. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member

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    Fossils are found at all altitudes. You personally have not found them means little. Where ever Oceanic sedimentary rocks exist (at any elevation) whether marine mudstone, sandstone, shale or limestone.. you get marine fossils, no matter the altitude. There was never any global flood as at every age we have found plenty of land based deposition as well (river, lakes, glacial, deserts, wind borne).
     
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  4. syncretic

    syncretic Square circlist

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    Huh? I have found them at altitude.
     
    #4 syncretic, Jun 16, 2017
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  5. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member

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    Who cares what you have found? There are found at any and every altitude where ever marine sedimentary rocks are present.
     
  6. syncretic

    syncretic Square circlist

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    The higher altitude indicates either a flood, or higher sea level.


    If no flood, then higher sea level, which refutes the argument that the sea level couldnt reach that elevation.
     
    #6 syncretic, Jun 16, 2017
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  7. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member

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    It means mountain building. Duh.
     
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  8. syncretic

    syncretic Square circlist

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    If mountain building occurs that quickly, /soft fossils, then any "theories" regarding determination that a flood didnt take place, because of altitude, are meaningless.
     
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  9. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member

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    No. Mountain building occurs slowly. The oceans deposit mud, sand along with dead marine animals that fossilize and petrify over millions if years. Much later, those ancient sediments get uplifted into mountains.

    The rocks of the sediments provide extensive information regarding how they formed and when. We are absolutely certain that these sediments were deposited when the land was originally at very low altitudes under the seas for millions of years and only much much much later these rocks got lifted and deformed into mountains.

    This is science not guesswork. Rocks, carefully analyzed with knowledge of geology, chemistry and physics reveals their entire story of formation and subsequent alterations.
     
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  10. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
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    Simple. the fossils are found in the same folded and faulted formations at different altitudes and continuous into the interior of the mountains, They are mainly in limestone and shale, which do not form in flood deposition, but in calm seas with associated coral reefs.

    The amount and type of fossils in each formation is dependent on the age and the type (limestone or shale) of the formation and consistent regardless of elevation. Drill logs have determined that the formations are continuous in the interior of the mountains,
     
    #10 shunyadragon, Jun 16, 2017
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  11. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
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    First reference:

    There is archaeological and geological (geomorphology) of the Tigris Euphrates valley that supports this. I have seen this before, and I consider it worth citing.

    Source: Tigris and Euphrates Floods


    A prolonged series of excavations was conducted at Ur under the leadership of Sir Charles Leonard Woolley from 1922 to 1934. Woolley found evidence of a settlement at Ur during the `Obeid Period (before 3500 B.C.). Flint objects, clay figurines, and pottery of the `Obeid type were made by the pre-Sumerian settlers at Ur. Above this `Obeid level, Woolley found a layer of silt from three to eleven feet thick which he thought to be the remains of the biblical flood. This seemed to support the claim of a catastrophic flood in the area around 2800 BCE. The event was clearly a local, not a global, event, however) and pre-dates the Biblical book of Genesis in the tale of the good Ziusudra who builds a great boat by the will of the gods and gathers inside two of every animal.

    According to tradition Kish was the first city founded after the Biblical flood. Captain Ernest Mackay and Stephen Langdon, excavating at Kish, also came upon flood deposits, but pottery evidence indicates that the two floods did not take place at the same time or even in the same century. Watelin found evidence of two floods, one dated in 1923 as occurring about 3400 BC and the other some six hundred years earlier. He further suggested that the later flood may have been the flood mentioned in the Bible. The Dynasty of Kish, the second of the Babylonian dynasties of the Sumerian rulers, was once dated as early as c.4401-3815, but is now dated at 2844 BC.

    The Tigris and Euphrates rivers changed their beds several times, and the so-called flood silt may have been formed when the rivers inundated parts of the land that had earlier been inhabited. Martin Beek suggests that the so-called flood silt was not caused by water at all. In his opinion it was produced by the dust storms which occur in southern Mesopotamia each spring and summer.

    The flood layer in Ur discovered by Leonard Woolley occurred about the same time as a flood in Nineveh, but is dated in the late Ubaid period [generally held to have ended around 3800 BC]. This Ubaid period flood was too early to be the flood of Ziusudra which was dated by archaeologist Max Mallowan at the end of the Jemdet Nasr period and the beginning of the Early Dynastic I period. This flood was radiocarbon dated at about 2900 BC flood and corresponds to flood layers attested at the Sumerian cities Shuruppak, Uruk, and the oldest of several flood layers at Kish. This flood of 2900 BC left a few feet of yellow mud in Shuruppak. The Kish Flood of 2600 BC was too recent to be the Deluge.

    © Copyright Original Source
     
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  12. Nietzsche

    Nietzsche The Last Prussian
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    Every society and civilization, be they current or historical, living or dead, grew up near a body of water. Bodies of water flood. Thus, every society will have some manner of flood-myth.
     
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  13. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
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    As a geologist and often a drill rig supervisor I have found the same limestone and shale formations at different altitudes,
     
  14. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
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    Actually many of the flood myths of different cultures are related to actual local catastrophic floods such as the catastrophic flood recording in Chinese ancient records. It has been documented to a specific catastrophic flood of the Yellow River.
     
  15. syncretic

    syncretic Square circlist

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    That's great, however the soft fossils don't evidence a very long formation time.

    This brings us back to timeline, altitude change etc. No answer to the flood question.
     
    #15 syncretic, Jun 16, 2017
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  16. syncretic

    syncretic Square circlist

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    Yes localised according to the story. That doesn't mean a localised flood.
     
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  17. sunrise123

    sunrise123 Darkness will pass. Dawn is almost here.
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  18. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Fossil deposition is entirely consistent with deep geological history, and entirely inconsistent with deposition in a single flood event.

    Fossils from a given time period will be similar, no matter what altitude they're found at. Landforms rise and fall, by well understood mechanisms.

    Flooding leaves a distinct geological signature. There have been many floods, including some truly massive ones as ice dams left over from the Pleistocene gave way, but no "world flood."
     
  19. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
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    Each flood deposition in the Tigris Euphrates Valley is distinct, bounded and dated. No, they do not extend byond the vally. More references that document this will follow.
     
  20. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
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