Spirit first?.......or substance first?

[Thief]

I've thought about it and rejected your position as undemonstrated. You're going to need something more. Something rational.


So "spirit" normally requires a cause? I thought you said it didn't.


If God could do it on his own, why couldn't someone else?

it seems you're looking for a play on words

that won't work

Someone had to be First

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

it seems you're looking for a play on words

that won't work

No, I'm looking for the justification for your assumptions.

Someone had to be First

And that someone had to cause absolutely everything after?

You keep on asserting that "spirit" can exist uncaused. Are you saying that God put an end to that?

 

[LuisDantas]

i cannot make denial......you may try

I don't even know what you are proposing me to try... and frankly, I do not feel any loss for that.

Someone had to be First

I don't think it is possible to even know.

 

[Darkstorn]

I don't think it is possible to even know.

I think that's exactly the problem. Thief here seems to think he knows more than he actually does. Specifically, he seems to think that he knows more than can conceivably be known.

He's teaching us. I think that's what he thinks.

 

[Willamena]

or maybe...you are referring to the famous quote of the Carpenter....
Let the dead.....bury the dead

I'm not familiar with it.

 

[Thief]

I'm not familiar with it.

new testament
having called a possible disciple to follow.....that fellow hesitated
his father had died and there were customary efforts to be performed

and the Carpenter said ......
Let the dead bury the dead

it was ...follow Me now.....or get left behind

 

[Thief]

I don't even know what you are proposing me to try... and frankly, I do not feel any loss for that.


I don't think it is possible to even know.

in the simple scheme of regression........
Someone had to be First

as was on this planet.....someone had to be first
we call him.....Adam

in the spiritual realm....Someone had to be First
I call Him.....God

 

[Willamena]

new testament
having called a possible disciple to follow.....that fellow hesitated
his father had died and there were customary efforts to be performed

and the Carpenter said ......
Let the dead bury the dead

it was ...follow Me now.....or get left behind

I don't get it.

 

[Thief]

I don't get it.

we are here in this life to learn all that we can before we die

the body in which we walk about....is a device
it renders into mind and heart this reality

we become unique
then God and heaven appear in that last hour to see what stands from the dust

the vast majority seek only what is needed....right now
no consideration to the last breath
no ability to stand from the dust

they are already dead
they simply haven't stopped breathing

 

[LuisDantas]

in the simple scheme of regression........
Someone had to be First

as was on this planet.....someone had to be first
we call him.....Adam

in the spiritual realm....Someone had to be First
I call Him.....God

That is just arbitrary dogma.

 

[Thief]

That is just arbitrary dogma.

nay.....
a simple line of thought

 

[LuisDantas]

nay.....
a simple line of thought

Based on premises with no interest in connecting with reality.

 

[Willamena]

we are here in this life to learn all that we can before we die

the body in which we walk about....is a device
it renders into mind and heart this reality

we become unique
then God and heaven appear in that last hour to see what stands from the dust

the vast majority seek only what is needed....right now
no consideration to the last breath
no ability to stand from the dust

they are already dead
they simply haven't stopped breathing

Wow. We sure are special.

 

[Thief]

Based on premises with no interest in connecting with reality.

shallow retort

your reality goes as far as your grave

I see no hope for your spirit.....you don't seem to mind

 

[LuisDantas]

shallow retort

your reality goes as far as your grave

I see no hope for your spirit.....you don't seem to mind

I do not mind. I have no reason to care what you think about my spirit, or even about whether I have one.

 

[Thief]

I do not mind. I have no reason to care what you think about my spirit, or even about whether I have one.

it matters not if I care

and again you seem to not understand my reasoning
as you have claimed so in other discussions

not much to offer you

 

[LuisDantas]

it matters not if I care

and again you seem to not understand my reasoning
as you have claimed so in other discussions

I am not sure there is a point in attempting to.

In any case, there is nothing there for me.

not much to offer you

Indeed.

 

[Thief]

so......back to topic

Substance first?

or Spirit?

and Someone had to be First

 

[janesix]

all the way back to the beginning
that is where we start

Morphic fields, evolving from the substrate of space

 

[Thief]

Morphic fields, evolving from the substrate of space

as in......God's Spirit moved upon the waters.....?