So What is Europe Supposed to Do, Exactly?

[Rival]

So Europe has this problem. It's called Islamic terrorism. Terrorist attacks carried out by Muslims are now a common feature in the news and other places. We also have a mostly Muslim migrant crisis that is filling Europe full of Daesh supporters who disguise themselves as moderates.

When we say we want to stop Islamic immigration we are called racists.

So what exactly is Europe supposed to do?

There are countries with very strict immigration laws like Poland and Hungary - these places have far, far fewer Islamic terrorist attacks than France, Germany and the UK, who allow in many more migrants then Hungary and Poland.

But we're all racists for proposing that it has something to do with Islam and 'refugees'.

So, again, what is it that Europe is supposed to do, according to these Islamophiles?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I'd say just shrug off the accusation of racism and do what is clearly best for their country.

 

[Rival]

'This isn't Paris. It's only men here' - Inside the French Muslim no-go zones where women aren't welcome

The footage, which provoked outrage after it was broadcast in the main evening news bulletin on the state-owned channel France 2 earlier this month, shows a customer asking if the women had come to meet a man.

“It’s best to wait outside,” another advised them. “There are only men here.”

The campaigners said that in France, it was perfectly normal for women and men to be in a bar together.

A third man responded: “In this café, there’s no mixing.”

He added: “We’re in Sevran, not (central) Paris.” Another said: “The mentalities are different, here it’s like it is back in the old country.”

‘’Allahu Akbar!’’ Defiant Muslims block traffic, pray in street after Paris mosque closed

In extraordinary scenes – particularly for a country in a state of emergency after two years of Islamist terrorism – police looked on as defiant chants of ‘Allahu Akbar’ were heard in front of the town hall and traffic was blocked by over a hundred members and supporters of the mosque staging a sit-down protest in the middle of busy Boulevard Jean Jaurès.

 

[Father Heathen]

When we say we want to stop Islamic immigration we are called racists.

Which is odd, considering that Islam is not a race. If I were to convert to Islam, would it rewrite my DNA and thus cease to be Caucasian?

 

[Rival]

Which is odd, considering that Islam is not a race. If I were to convert to Islam, would it rewrite my DNA and thus cease to be Caucasian?

Apparently.

But then you'll also be told that there's no such thing as race; that it's just a social construct.

Because logic.

 

[Father Heathen]

Apparently.

But then you'll also be told that there's no such thing as race; that it's just a social construct.

Because logic.

People don't really want a colorblind society, because that would mean giving up any sense of entitlement.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

So Europe has this problem. It's called Islamic terrorism. Terrorist attacks carried out by Muslims are now a common feature in the news and other places. We also have a mostly Muslim migrant crisis that is filling Europe full of Daesh supporters who disguise themselves as moderates.

When we say we want to stop Islamic immigration we are called racists.

It's a real problem. Pointing out the link between religious terrorism and the religion that motivates it is 'Islamophobic', quoting Islamic sacred texts which justify violence against non-believers is also deemed 'Islamophobic'.

There are countries with very strict immigration laws like Poland and Hungary - these places have far, far fewer Islamic terrorist attacks than France, Germany and the UK, who allow in many more migrants then Hungary and Poland.

Do you have a source on Polish & Hungarian immigration laws?

But we're all racists for proposing that it has something to do with Islam and 'refugees'.

The interesting part is that Islamic terrorists aren't just 'refugees'. There are 'home-grown' Islamic terrorists committing attacks in Europe and the wider West.

So, again, what is it that Europe is supposed to do, according to these Islamophiles?

I'll be interested to see if any respond. To date, nobody has been able to give me a reason (or even an answer) as to why I, a polytheist Pagan, should embrace the growing influence of a religion which more often than not fosters an environment where it is unsafe for polytheists, animists and the like to worship safely or to practise their religions freely. I have no reason to want to look forward to that sort of thing.

 

[Rival]

Do you have a source on Polish & Hungarian immigration laws?

One of the largest countries in Europe is refusing to take a single refugee

"Jaroslaw Kaczynski is the leader of Poland's ruling Law and Justice (PiS) party. PiS takes a nationalist, right-wing stance on most issues, vocally opposing EU plans to house and feed refugees fleeing the Syrian civil war and other humanitarian crises.

In a political broadcast published on YouTube, he said: “After recent events connected with acts of terror, [Poland] will not accept refugees because there is no mechanism that would ensure security."

The European Union has recently suggested that countries should be asked to accept a quota of refugees, or pay €250,000 (£200,000) for each asylum-seeker they turn away.

The money raised would be given to countries such as Greece, Germany and Italy who are currently housing a disproportionately high number of refugees.

But Mr Kaczynski also spoke out in opposition to these plans, which would see Poland asked to meet a quota of 6500 refugees or provide over €1.6bn (£1.25bn) in support for the humanitarian effort.

"Such a decision would abolish the sovereignty of EU member states – of course, the weaker ones," he said. "We don’t agree to that, we have to oppose that, because we are and we will be in charge in our own country,”

Poland's New Immigration Law | Krakow Post

Certain obstacles for foreigners will remain. The law that came into effect in May includes the provision that employers interested in employing people from outside of the EU will still need to demonstrate that the local job market is insufficient to fill those positions. Foreigners applying for temporary residence will also need to provide proof of health insurance, detailed employment information, and information on financial resources to cover living expenses.

Hungary

Fear stalks migrants huddled along Hungary’s border

"President János Áder signed the bill, which will allow all asylum seekers to be locked up in detention camps, and will also permit police to return asylum seekers from anywhere in the country back to Serbia. Orbán, leader of the rightwing populist Fidesz party, has described migration as the “Trojan horse for terrorism” and considers Muslim migrants a threat to European identity and culture.

More than 7,000 asylum seekers trying to reach western Europe are stuck in Serbia, outside the EU, following Hungary’s decision last summer to introduce strict limits on the number of refugees allowed to enter and began patrolling the borders with a controversial new wing of its police force known as Határvadász, or border hunters."

http://www.politico.eu/article/hung...iktor-orban-refugees-migration-crisis-europe/

"LONDON — Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán will introduce measures within weeks to hold immigrants in detention “shelters” indefinitely in order to stop them traveling freely within Europe, his spokesman said on Monday.

Under Orbán’s proposal, those entering Hungary illegally — even if they are fleeing war-torn countries in the Middle East and Africa — will be kept in government camps, banned from moving freely within Hungary, until their status has been resolved, which could take “months.”

The interesting part is that Islamic terrorists aren't just refugees. There are 'home-grown' Islamic terrorists committing attacks in Europe and the wider West.

Life should mean life, if they cannot be deported.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Life should mean life, if they cannot be deported.

It should. But apparently Islam is spreading like wildfire in British prisons - it's a rather fertile ground for converts. The problem Europe faces is that it can't just outlaw or 'throw out' Islam because it's impossible - you can't get rid of ideas this way - and we can't do it without being massive hypocrites. For years, decades, we've gone on & on about freedom of religion and how a basic human right is that people should be free to practise their faith (or lack thereof) as they see fit without interference from the State. If we throw Islam out on the grounds that it's a repressive ideology because, when it has a substantial number of the population under its sway, the religious rights of minorities tend to diminish then we invite the same to happen to Christianity because by-and-large Christianity has a much longer and more recent track record of denying minorities rights in Europe. But, of course, we wouldn't dream of outlawing Christianity.

I'll respond to the rest of your post in due course.

 

[Rival]

It should. But apparently Islam is spreading like wildfire in British prisons - it's a rather fertile ground for converts. The problem Europe faces is that it can't just outlaw or 'throw out' Islam because it's impossible - you can't get rid of ideas this way - and we can't do it without being massive hypocrites. For years, decades, we've gone on & on about freedom of religion and how a basic human right is that people should be free to practise their faith (or lack thereof) as they see fit without interference from the State. If we throw Islam out on the grounds that it's a repressive ideology because, when it has a substantial number of the population under its sway, the religious rights of minorities tend to diminish then we invite the same to happen to Christianity because by-and-large Christianity has a much longer and more recent track record of denying minorities rights in Europe. But, of course, we wouldn't dream of outlawing Christianity.

Death penalty or state enforced atheism. They gave us no choice.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

The problem Europe faces is that it can't just outlaw or 'throw out' Islam because it's impossible - you can't get rid of ideas this way - and we can't do it without being massive hypocrites. For years, decades, we've gone on & on about freedom of religion and how a basic human right is that people should be free to practise their faith (or lack thereof) as they see fit without interference from the State.

I don't think so. This ideology has expanded to worship without interference from the State, to worship without interference from anyone. On these grounds, Islamic ideology that threatens the free worship (or non-worship) of their fellow citizens can and should be justly opposed and outrooted. And frankly, I don't think we should stop with Muslims that think like this; I think that organizations like the Army of God, Westboro Baptists, and even the Asatru Folk Assembly should be thoroughly investigated, and prosecuted as hate groups and threats to religious freedom and liberty should significant threat be found.

 

[VioletVortex]

Stop immigration. It is the obvious ****ing solution. It makes perfect sense. If a group of people carry with them individuals who present problems, then the only thing you can do is stop that group from entering.

What about Ukrainian refugees? People from Ukraine are seeking refuge in other European countries, but they are being denied the right to travel through their own homeland because Western European countries are being obligated to fill some sort of foreign immigration quota.

 

[Laika]

So Europe has this problem. It's called Islamic terrorism. Terrorist attacks carried out by Muslims are now a common feature in the news and other places. We also have a mostly Muslim migrant crisis that is filling Europe full of Daesh supporters who disguise themselves as moderates.

When we say we want to stop Islamic immigration we are called racists.

So what exactly is Europe supposed to do?

There are countries with very strict immigration laws like Poland and Hungary - these places have far, far fewer Islamic terrorist attacks than France, Germany and the UK, who allow in many more migrants then Hungary and Poland.

But we're all racists for proposing that it has something to do with Islam and 'refugees'.

So, again, what is it that Europe is supposed to do, according to these Islamophiles?

This is serious! Europe must take decisive action!

.....Unleash the Snowflakes!

 

[LuisDantas]

Death penalty or state enforced atheism. They gave us no choice.

I don't think either would be much of a solution. The moral and practical obstacles are quite formidable for both. And if we learned one thing from the Soviets, it is that it is not possible to enforce atheism.

Instead, it seems to me that what is needed is an aggressive policy of laicism and shameless rejection of religious privilege. Muslims, much like Christians or anyone else, should learn well and often that there is no hope for refuge from personal responsibility in religious claims.

And, of course, Islaam should be denounced and criticized for the trap and quagmire that it is. Openly, shamelessly and very often.

 

[icehorse]

I know it's not surprising that I agree with most of the posts in this thread. A slight amendment I would make is to focus less on terrorism and more on anti-secularism, because that is by far the greater threat posed by this immigration crisis.

 

[Rival]

Instead, it seems to me that what is needed is an aggressive policy of laicism and shameless rejection of religious privilege. Muslims, much like Christians or anyone else, should learn well and often that there is no hope for refuge from personal responsibility in religious claims.

This is basically what I mean by state atheism.

 

[Rival]

The moral and practical obstacles are quite formidable for both.

At the minute, for me, all moral arguments have gone out of the window. This is a tooth and nail fight.

 

[icehorse]

Instead, it seems to me that what is needed is an aggressive policy of laicism and shameless rejection of religious privilege.

"laicism" is a new word to me. Can you describe how it's different than "separation of church and state"?

thanks!

 

[LuisDantas]

At the minute, for me, all moral arguments have gone out of the window. This is a tooth and nail fight.

It is too bad if we reached that level, because that would mean that what really matters has been lost for good already.

 

[LuisDantas]

"laicism" is a new word to me. Can you describe how it's different than "separation of church and state"?

It isn't. Laicism / Laicité is in essence the same as secularism.