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Why Hadith can NOT be part of Islam
- Thread starter Aamer
- Start date
curious_mind
Member
How does one quote verses from the Quran commanding us to follow our Prophet PBUH but then use them as an opponent to hadith? Does that make any sense to you?
Also, the Quran commands you to pray, please tell me how you would pray? Since I assume you do not follow thw hadith on prayer.
Can you also tell me when and how you break your fasts?
Also, let's not be so careless with so called facts such as "hadith were written 250+ years after Prophet Muhammad PBUH". They were not. The words and actions of the Prophet Pbuh, including the Quran were recorded on paper in his own time. Of course, a lot of it was still passed on by word of mouth but that was not unusual for that time period and in particular for the Arabs, who could and still do trace their entire lineage back by thousands of years throuhj memorisation.
Plus, all the hadiths that have been authenticated have been done so through quite possibly the most in depth historical research in human history, where not only was each conveyor of the hadith researched but whether or not there were people who delivered the exact same or similar histories of the Prophet PBUH and then all their characters were investigated: i.e. were they honest, upstanding citizens, what did their contempories of them, how knowleadgeable were they etc.
I challenge you to show me just one other historical figures whose life, story, sayings and actions have been so thoroughly researched. From Caeser to Churchill you will find none.
Also, the Quran commands you to pray, please tell me how you would pray? Since I assume you do not follow thw hadith on prayer.
Can you also tell me when and how you break your fasts?
Also, let's not be so careless with so called facts such as "hadith were written 250+ years after Prophet Muhammad PBUH". They were not. The words and actions of the Prophet Pbuh, including the Quran were recorded on paper in his own time. Of course, a lot of it was still passed on by word of mouth but that was not unusual for that time period and in particular for the Arabs, who could and still do trace their entire lineage back by thousands of years throuhj memorisation.
Plus, all the hadiths that have been authenticated have been done so through quite possibly the most in depth historical research in human history, where not only was each conveyor of the hadith researched but whether or not there were people who delivered the exact same or similar histories of the Prophet PBUH and then all their characters were investigated: i.e. were they honest, upstanding citizens, what did their contempories of them, how knowleadgeable were they etc.
I challenge you to show me just one other historical figures whose life, story, sayings and actions have been so thoroughly researched. From Caeser to Churchill you will find none.
zayd321
New Member
I do not say ahadith are entirely false. However, they are not to be taken as seriously as Qur'an. ALLAH did not command Bukhari, Muslim, Ahmad, etc to put together a book of narrations nor did HE command any Shi'ah scholar or even their Imams.
Look how much fitnah has come out of the books of ahadith? How many sects? People are not really following Rasoul ALLAH (peace and blessings be upon him). They are following Imams and authors of texts written by people who did not even know the Prophet. If you wish to be a hardcore hadith follower, that's your will. I was one but it makes no more sense to me to be someone who puts man-made texts on the same level as Qur'an. That, fellow human, is an innovation and kofr. Without a doubt. All of the necessary ayat to defend this point have been posted by Aamer.
I'd like to add that there are narrations which forbid the writing of narrations. How does that happen huh? Oh and have you read the narrations in Sahih Muslim where it says the Prophet forbade temporary marriage after it says that Umar forbade them and that some very credible Sahaba were performing it even after the death of the Prophet? How can a book be 100% sahih (authentic) and have such contradictions? When a person follows contradictions, knowingly or blindly, he develops the personality of a hypocrite or someone who hates on the wrong basis. Hate is reserved for shaitan and his servants of course, but Muslims hate other Muslims over narrations. Over what the villainous scholars propogated Ahadith only lead to confusion. The scholars hide many things from us.
Look how much fitnah has come out of the books of ahadith? How many sects? People are not really following Rasoul ALLAH (peace and blessings be upon him). They are following Imams and authors of texts written by people who did not even know the Prophet. If you wish to be a hardcore hadith follower, that's your will. I was one but it makes no more sense to me to be someone who puts man-made texts on the same level as Qur'an. That, fellow human, is an innovation and kofr. Without a doubt. All of the necessary ayat to defend this point have been posted by Aamer.
I'd like to add that there are narrations which forbid the writing of narrations. How does that happen huh? Oh and have you read the narrations in Sahih Muslim where it says the Prophet forbade temporary marriage after it says that Umar forbade them and that some very credible Sahaba were performing it even after the death of the Prophet? How can a book be 100% sahih (authentic) and have such contradictions? When a person follows contradictions, knowingly or blindly, he develops the personality of a hypocrite or someone who hates on the wrong basis. Hate is reserved for shaitan and his servants of course, but Muslims hate other Muslims over narrations. Over what the villainous scholars propogated Ahadith only lead to confusion. The scholars hide many things from us.
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zayd321
New Member
Narrated by Zaid ibn Thabit Al-Muttalib ibn Abdullah ibn Hantab said: Zaid ibn Thabit entered upon Mu’awiyah and asked him about a tradition. He ordered a man to write it. Zaid said: The Apostle of Allah (PBUH) ordered us not to write any of his traditions. So he erased it.(Source: Sunan of Abu-Dawud Hadith
Abu Sa’id Khudri reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Do not take down anything from me, and he who took down anything from me except the Qur’an, he should efface that AND narrate from me, for there is no harm in it and he who attributed any falsehood to me−and Hammam said: I think he also said:” deliberately” −he should in fact find his abode in the Hell−Fire. (Source: Sahih Muslim Book 42, Number 7147)
Abu Sa’id Khudri reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Do not take down anything from me, and he who took down anything from me except the Qur’an, he should efface that AND narrate from me, for there is no harm in it and he who attributed any falsehood to me−and Hammam said: I think he also said:” deliberately” −he should in fact find his abode in the Hell−Fire. (Source: Sahih Muslim Book 42, Number 7147)
zayd321
New Member
All I have ever seen in ahadith besides sayings is contradictions right and left. Then scholars worsen things and defend these contradictions. This is why we have so many sects. Look at the four major ones of Ahlul Sunnah who once went by the name, "Ahlul Hadith." It is as if those scholars and writers saw the Prophet and it is as if their followers saw those scholars who saw Rasoul ALLAH (sall ALLAHu alayhi wa sallam). They stepped out of bounds and took upon a great task indeed. A task that can be the fuel to their own punishment in the akhirah. Read their texts and see the contradictions. Last I checked we were Muslims not Christians.
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curious_mind
Member
You did not answer a simple question. How do you pray and how did you learn to pray?
Secondly, Allah does not order the collection of the Quranic verses into a single book either, yet it happened. Will you now not read the Quran either?
Secondly, can you find me a single sahih hadith which contradicts the Quran? And can you quotes sources for everything you have said in the final paragraph?
zayd321
New Member
zayd321
New Member
To pray, I believe one must follow the way people pray in his community. Whether they base their prayer on ahadith or what they saw people doing is not an issue because nobody alive today saw the Prophet (pbuh) pray. Neither did the previous Imams. Whatever is considered salat should be performed as it is seen. However it should be done with tawakkul (reliance) on ALLAH and one should say in his heart or aloud, "Ya ALLAH I do not know how your Messenger prayed but I do this to please you and fulfill what YOU command me to do so please accept my prayers ya ALLAH." This should be kept in the heart. That answers your first question. My source for this is the Quran itself. Quran says prayz So, we pray as the prayers pray.
Secondly, the Quran was not compiled into a Book. Correct. However, the Sahaba and all who were around them put it together and nobody to my knowledge disapproved of its compilation or its order of compilation and it was complete as it is and always will be in shaa' ALLAH. The Quran that was revealed to Rasoul ALLAH was memorized by many Sahaba and then written on paper. The narration permits it if you did not read it.
Abu Sa’id Khudri reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: "Do not take down anything from me, and he who took down anything from me except the Qur’an, he should efface that AND narrate from me, for there is no harm in it and he who attributed any falsehood to me"−and Hammam said: I think he also said:” deliberately” −he should in fact find his abode in the Hell−Fire.(Source: Sahih Muslim Book 42, Number 7147)
Even if it mentioned nothing of it, it was the Sahaba who put it together, not Bukhari who heard from someone who heard from someone else in this chain or telephone game the scholar played.
I will give you narrations which contradict the Quran in the next reply in shaa' ALLAH.
Secondly, the Quran was not compiled into a Book. Correct. However, the Sahaba and all who were around them put it together and nobody to my knowledge disapproved of its compilation or its order of compilation and it was complete as it is and always will be in shaa' ALLAH. The Quran that was revealed to Rasoul ALLAH was memorized by many Sahaba and then written on paper. The narration permits it if you did not read it.
Abu Sa’id Khudri reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: "Do not take down anything from me, and he who took down anything from me except the Qur’an, he should efface that AND narrate from me, for there is no harm in it and he who attributed any falsehood to me"−and Hammam said: I think he also said:” deliberately” −he should in fact find his abode in the Hell−Fire.(Source: Sahih Muslim Book 42, Number 7147)
Even if it mentioned nothing of it, it was the Sahaba who put it together, not Bukhari who heard from someone who heard from someone else in this chain or telephone game the scholar played.
I will give you narrations which contradict the Quran in the next reply in shaa' ALLAH.
zayd321
New Member
Narrated 'Imran bin Husain: The Verse of mut'ah (of Hajj not women) was revealed in Allah's Book, so we performed it with Allah's Apostle, and nothing was revealed in Qur'an to make it illegal, nor did the Prophet prohibit it till he died. But the man (Umar) just expressed what his own mind suggested
Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3250:
From Umar who said:
“By Allah I forbid you from Temporary Marriage while it is revealed in the book of Allah and the Messenger of Allah did it too”
Al Bidaya Wal Nihaya
By Al Hafith Ibn Kathir
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
“The Verse of stoning and of breastfeeding an adult ten times was revealed, and the paper was with me under my pillow. When the Messenger of Allah died, we were preoccupied with his death, and a tame sheep came in and ate it.”
Sunan Ibn Majah
Vol 3 Book 9
Hadith 1944
Abdullah bin Zaid narrated that:
"The Prophet performed Wudu. So he washed his face three times, and washed his hands two times each, and wiped his head, and washed his feet [two times]."
Jami' Al Tirmidhi
Vol 1 Book 1 Narration 47
It was narrated that Rubai' said:
"Ibn 'Abbas came to me and asked me about this Hadith" meaning the Hadith, that she had narrated, saying that the Messenger of Allah performed ablution and washed his feet. "Ibn 'Abbas said: 'The people are insisting on washing their feet, but I do not find anything in the Qur'an except (the injunction to) wipe them.
Sunan Ibn Majah
Vol 1
Book 1
Narration 458
This last narration was classed as "da'eef" (weak). This is funny to me because some scholar after Ibn Majah (who probably never met Ibn Majah) graded it weak while Ibn Majah included it in his Sunan. Why in the world of intellect would Ibn Majah include a narration in his Sunan if its weak? Why would any narration be weak? The latter scholars try to explain their reasoning. It's all educated guesswork. None of it is for sure. They write books based on other books and try to explain things they are not even sure about.
"Al Nawawi said this..."
"Ibn Hajar said that..."
Blah blah blah
Guess what? ALLAH said in HIS Holy Book
O you who believe! when you rise up to prayer, wash your faces and your hands as far as the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles;
ALLAH says what to wash and then what to wipe. The scholars give some bogus explanation about how the feet should be washed when it clearly says in Arabic to wash the face and hands/arms and then wipe the head and feet.
They play a game of telephone, guessing and double standards, give it to you on a silver platter and say this is the Sunnah. Don't get me wrong, it might truly be the Sunnah of the Prophet (sall ALLAHu alayhi wa sallam) but it was given us through many people. Regular people. It's not for sure like Qur'an is but people insist it is for sure as if they saw Rasoul ALLAH. astaghferu LLAH
Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3250:
From Umar who said:
“By Allah I forbid you from Temporary Marriage while it is revealed in the book of Allah and the Messenger of Allah did it too”
Al Bidaya Wal Nihaya
By Al Hafith Ibn Kathir
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
“The Verse of stoning and of breastfeeding an adult ten times was revealed, and the paper was with me under my pillow. When the Messenger of Allah died, we were preoccupied with his death, and a tame sheep came in and ate it.”
Sunan Ibn Majah
Vol 3 Book 9
Hadith 1944
Abdullah bin Zaid narrated that:
"The Prophet performed Wudu. So he washed his face three times, and washed his hands two times each, and wiped his head, and washed his feet [two times]."
Jami' Al Tirmidhi
Vol 1 Book 1 Narration 47
It was narrated that Rubai' said:
"Ibn 'Abbas came to me and asked me about this Hadith" meaning the Hadith, that she had narrated, saying that the Messenger of Allah performed ablution and washed his feet. "Ibn 'Abbas said: 'The people are insisting on washing their feet, but I do not find anything in the Qur'an except (the injunction to) wipe them.
Sunan Ibn Majah
Vol 1
Book 1
Narration 458
This last narration was classed as "da'eef" (weak). This is funny to me because some scholar after Ibn Majah (who probably never met Ibn Majah) graded it weak while Ibn Majah included it in his Sunan. Why in the world of intellect would Ibn Majah include a narration in his Sunan if its weak? Why would any narration be weak? The latter scholars try to explain their reasoning. It's all educated guesswork. None of it is for sure. They write books based on other books and try to explain things they are not even sure about.
"Al Nawawi said this..."
"Ibn Hajar said that..."
Blah blah blah
Guess what? ALLAH said in HIS Holy Book
O you who believe! when you rise up to prayer, wash your faces and your hands as far as the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles;
ALLAH says what to wash and then what to wipe. The scholars give some bogus explanation about how the feet should be washed when it clearly says in Arabic to wash the face and hands/arms and then wipe the head and feet.
They play a game of telephone, guessing and double standards, give it to you on a silver platter and say this is the Sunnah. Don't get me wrong, it might truly be the Sunnah of the Prophet (sall ALLAHu alayhi wa sallam) but it was given us through many people. Regular people. It's not for sure like Qur'an is but people insist it is for sure as if they saw Rasoul ALLAH. astaghferu LLAH
curious_mind
Member
I deleted the others because your starting point is false, so we can not carry on untill this is out in the open.
The section you seemingly quote does not exist, hadith 3250 in book 8 of Sahih Muslim is as follows:
Abu Nadra reported: While I was in the company of Jabir b. Abdullah, a person came to him and said that Ibn 'Abbas and Ibn Zubair differed on the two types of Mut'as (Tamattu' of Hajj 1846 and Tamattu' with women), whereupon Jabir said: We used to do these two during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (May peace be upon him). Umar then forbade us to do them, and so we did not revert to them.
At no point is Umar RA speech mentioned and at no point is it mentioned as part of the Quran (becauset here is no such verse).
So why did you falsely quote? Where did you actually receive such a quote from? Do you know how big a sin it is to fabricate such things?
zayd321
New Member
zayd321
New Member
Do you know how foolish it is to make false assumptions and rush into false conclusions?
Al Bidaya Wa Al Nihaya, by al Hafiz Ibin Al Kathir Al Dimashqi
Investigated by Dr. Al Turki.
Volume 7, page 460
The Narration says:
From Umar who said:
“By Allah I forbid you from Temporary Marriage while it is revealed in the book of Allah and the Messenger of Allah did it too”
The chain of Narrators is ( جيد ) meaning good.
Al Bidaya Wa Al Nihaya, by al Hafiz Ibin Al Kathir Al Dimashqi
Investigated by Dr. Al Turki.
Volume 7, page 460
The Narration says:
From Umar who said:
“By Allah I forbid you from Temporary Marriage while it is revealed in the book of Allah and the Messenger of Allah did it too”
The chain of Narrators is ( جيد ) meaning good.
Arhammikhaelbosarge
Blurobslobokikashka
I will tell you to help you next sallaht you pray while your in sujood ask the following to Allah swt ( I literally want you to message me back when this happens) say bismillah ya Allah is hadith a lie all of it? And if it is give me a sign to follow only you I ask please help me make the sign so powerful I can't ignore it if it's true say if I am to follow the Quran alone I ask you to put me on righfull guidence ask simply for a very hard hitting sign ( I did it worked that is why I am on this site) I got taqiyahed by a mufti then again then again knowing theyre was some serious stuff wrong. I woke up it said Quran verse of the day. AYA basically. It literally answered my exact question it shook the core of my soul. I want you to do the same. We are to ask for signs in the Quran ( I rely on them remember he's our creator protector and substainer) do it ask even directly for a exact time it truly doesn't matter unlike retarded other faiths WE KNOW ALLAH SWT IS REAL!!!! HE IS THE ONLY GOD ☝ la illaha I'll Allah swt. Ask him when you get your answer then come back we will talk ask it with all of your heart in sujood prostration I did it every sujood but he answers inshallah I will see you come hauling A@@ back to me. Then we will figure out what to do. This was my sign simply this but to me it was from Allah swt answering me. Your sign will be for you.
Arhammikhaelbosarge
Blurobslobokikashka
Wow really meinkampf by Adolf Hitler written by Hitler oh and part 2 by him they're you go ( my struggle) = mein Kampf don't go historical you will loose ridiculously bad. ( I study history)
Arhammikhaelbosarge
Blurobslobokikashka
Oh and narrated only by Adolf Hitler and translated from German to English or you can read it in German
Arhammikhaelbosarge
Blurobslobokikashka
Oh if you need some hadith to understand it which version alternative history where I tell you the truth or narated by I saw by I heard by I think by possible by my grandma's unckle he was in Auschwitz but seen by narated by I realize he wasn't a Jew verified by he lied by who ever first narated it. Narrated by zyclone b ( a pesticide) witnessed by ( a gas chamber needs to be fully sealed, guessed by the people who actually found out by the died from by dipheria by inside concentration camps by all of it actually happen by of all crazy things by a Jewish fortune teller who told him he would rise to power ' make sure not to take fortune cookies seriously by me
Arhammikhaelbosarge
Blurobslobokikashka
Oh if you need some hadith to understand it which version alternative history where I tell you the truth or narated by I saw by I heard by I think by possible by my grandma's unckle he was in Auschwitz but seen by narated by I realize he wasn't a Jew verified by he lied by who ever first narated it. Narrated by zyclone b ( a pesticide) witnessed by ( a gas chamber needs to be fully sealed, guessed by the people who actually found out by the died from by dipheria by inside concentration camps by all of it actually happen by of all crazy things by a Jewish fortune teller who told him he would rise to power ' make sure not to take fortune cookies seriously by me
Arhammikhaelbosarge
Blurobslobokikashka
Yes all because they are heresay which is forbidden ( and I don't need to appease you your an idiot ) I have to sleep and inshallah when I wake up it's 5 am btwy I'm going to destroy this entire chat and use chains to show it then laugh at how stupid you are. I clearly told you it was a sign for me the aya meaning only what it said not the meaning you guys are beyond help honestly infact why not practice all hadith? Yeah infact every version every madhab naration and they're un changed raw naration. You see your like a animal on a leash I am controlled only by Allah swt he is GOD wtf controls you? Hadith the imam the mufti oh and what's his idea and did you check to follow him and make sure he wasn't lying? They're is no god but Allah swt why the f# would I follow some ones opinion thats so d#mn stupid. He's a man!!!! A man!!!! Shhhhhh while your at it why don't you French kiss every brick on a house damn...... Allah swt sends you a book your main objective is to trust in Allah swt no you run to hadith and actually defend it more than you defend the Quran ( I love ohhhhhhh but Quran doesn't say.... How the f do you know? The number 19 literally mathematically unlocks secret knowledge all through it. That's it.......... 19...... If hadith is true try 19 YouTube how it is done it's Allah swt who did that not a man I'm sure your going to turn around and say no the messenger ......... What next? If I asked you why aligator are always mad would you need a hadith I have one narated by me fabricated by boby bushays mom they mad cuz they have all those teeth and no tooth brush. I heard him say she said narated by a movie depicted by Adam Sandler collected by the water boy the film. I seriously don't think you guys are seriously this stupid. What next? Seriously what next? No show me your hadith in Arabic not English and then in English to what I posted. You guys seriously are insane some of you. If you want seriously to leave the original Islam true Islam you already have the moment you made the prophet Muhammad saw pbuh into of all catagories something a Christian would do damn near. It pisses me off you idiots literally out of the whole Quran I want you to show me every AYA in it that says the Sunnah collection oh sahih bukarah collection follow this narated by said by I say you are ****ing destroying our tenants of our religion............... Next you will tell me the lovely story of the trash in the prophets yard and the sick Jew and think it is real and it is crazy because it's beyond fabricated it was on purposely fabricated and sheikh's say it then say yes it's fake ( that's super kuffar) how the he## can you literally lie in a masjid of all places knowing it's a lie not even a hadith!!!!
Arhammikhaelbosarge
Blurobslobokikashka
100000000000000000000% you all have to literally see this yes you other retards that even believe hadith will laugh at this I mean sh;;;;; I thought the Tom and Jerry fatwa was funny I think we have sunk to a whole new level of dumb every one look Ruling on drawing smiley faces when chatting on the internet - islamqa.info