Christians..................... and their worldly wealth.

[oldbadger]

They're "Earth sized" and may be capable of sustaining liquid water. Whether or not they're capable of sustaining life is not known.

Well..... come on......!
At 38 light years away I suppose we'll have some difficulty in actually seeing a kangaroo, or whatever.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Obviously one has to be rich before you can give their riches away. At what point does one give away their riches?

When you have it, especially if you can spare it (but it's more of a sacrifice if you can't but give it anyway), and you see the person needs it. Oh, and Jesus would like you not to gripe about how awful it's going to be to give it away. Such back-handed charity is not rewarded in heaven for "on earth they have their reward".

edit:
I mean, I don't even report charitable giving on my tax returns. I feel it cheapens it, slapping God in the face by demanding a refund for my "sacrifice".

 

[Kemosloby]

When you have it, especially if you can spare it (but it's more of a sacrifice if you can't but give it anyway), and you see the person needs it. Oh, and Jesus would like you not to gripe about how awful it's going to be to give it away. Such back-handed charity is not rewarded in heaven for "on earth they have their reward".

edit:
I mean, I don't even report charitable giving on my tax returns. I feel it cheapens it, slapping God in the face by demanding a refund for my "sacrifice".

You just told now though and lost all your reward...

 

[RabbiO]

That's my place!
Don't my Missus (in red) look great?

And are you the one in blue?

 

[ensnaturae]

I need Christians, especially those who believe that the bible is the unerring, infallible, divine word of God, to read the verses below, and then to confirm that they live a life free from Mammon, High Status, Wealth and other Riches.

If not....... Why not?

Jesus didn't write a syllable of the bible...
Its a very simple idea to consider. Love, if it has any effect in your life at all..will cause you to consider ..not just your own well being, and that of your children and those whom you love as family and friends, but also...the well being of every sentient being. I don't want to own or use, for myself.. anything better than basic supplies... I choose to live as simply, and as frugally as I can...In a materialistic society that can be harder than it sounds...People are judged, given status and approval, in many parts of the world, because of the kind of house they own or live in...the clothes they wear.. to fail to present an approved image..can make life hard. People suspicious and unfriendly. My very simple life has caused me to be called a "squatter" in my own home! Its a very small house, but still people think I am too poor to have a home at all..and become abusive! When I had a large house and powerful car, I was treated with respect. You can see more easily Jesus's point, perhaps...that Love cannot be measured by su cessful materialism, in such a way! More importantly...consider those aspects of your life, comforts you consider essential! What have you got, what have I got...that so many poor people will NEVER have? What is it, that tells me..I am right to treat myself to any kind of comforts and easy living ...when little children, frail elderly people, the weak and vulnerable, all over the world ...suffer? How can I eat well, sleep in comfort, travel for pleasure, while my fellows around the world, are homeless, hungry, lone!y ..in pain?.
Loving and caring that's what Jesus was about, every waking. moment....his pure joy was in kindness, loving and giving, and never deluxe comforts himself!

 

[Kenny]

I need Christians, especially those who believe that the bible is the unerring, infallible, divine word of God, to read the verses below, and then to confirm that they live a life free from Mammon, High Status, Wealth and other Riches.

If not....... Why not?

MATTHEW {19:23} Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. {19:24} And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

It is a shame that you didn't finish the scriptures:

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
27 Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”
28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

How does that change your perspective?

 

[oldbadger]

And are you the one in blue?

I didn't like to say.......

 

[oldbadger]

Jesus didn't write a syllable of the bible...
Its a very simple idea to consider. Love, if it has any effect in your life at all..will cause you to consider ..not just your own well being, and that of your children and those whom you love as family and friends, but also...the well being of every sentient being. I don't want to own or use, for myself.. anything better than basic supplies... I choose to live as simply, and as frugally as I can...In a materialistic society that can be harder than it sounds...People are judged, given status and approval, in many parts of the world, because of the kind of house they own or live in...the clothes they wear.. to fail to present an approved image..can make life hard. People suspicious and unfriendly. My very simple life has caused me to be called a "squatter" in my own home! Its a very small house, but still people think I am too poor to have a home at all..and become abusive! When I had a large house and powerful car, I was treated with respect. You can see more easily Jesus's point, perhaps...that Love cannot be measured by su cessful materialism, in such a way! More importantly...consider those aspects of your life, comforts you consider essential! What have you got, what have I got...that so many poor people will NEVER have? What is it, that tells me..I am right to treat myself to any kind of comforts and easy living ...when little children, frail elderly people, the weak and vulnerable, all over the world ...suffer? How can I eat well, sleep in comfort, travel for pleasure, while my fellows around the world, are homeless, hungry, lone!y ..in pain?.
Loving and caring that's what Jesus was about, every waking. moment....his pure joy was in kindness, loving and giving, and never deluxe comforts himself!

Thankyou for your post.
Yes, Jesus didn't writre anything, but then, he was a Galilean handworker.... and Galilean peasants used oral-tradition to remember important events etc.
Yes, my Granny (a 'we're all good Christians' -type) said that her family had always had a rule, to judge a person by what shoes they were wearing.

A recent debate, out there on the internet, finally caused a penny to drop for me, as I finally got fed up with how some Christians manipulate the 'infallible word of the Lord' into various meanings which massage their righteousness more effectively. Some issues are held rigidly to chapter, verse, stop and comma ...... the unerring word of God. Others are 'adjusted', and I have had tio listen to Christians 'teaching me' about 'what Jesus really meant'.

I will be collecting such junk, trawled from the rigid and flexible, mixing it into a kind of semantic porridge, and feeding it back to the ones who (I think) deserve it.

Of course, many Christians are truly beautiful people, it's the ones who ride Christianity with their wicked hearts that p--s me off!

I live in a tiny home with my wife. Happiness! We are fortunate to be able to do what we llike now, and so we don't give a hoot about the social hypocrisies of our society. I expect that I do have some naughty hypocrisies left iover from a lifetime of stupidity, but when I perceive the little s-ds I do everything possible to kick 'em out of my heart and soul.

 

[oldbadger]

It is a shame that you didn't finish the scriptures:

What?
Why, if I had included all then you would have had nothing to do....?

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

But, I don't think that you get it...
The rich man was not with God!
A person with God is probably more like John the Baptist, living out in the wastes, as close to self-subsistence as any human could be, living on the pulse of the seasons, at one with all, at one with his God.
With God all is possible.
But I guess it's easy for rich, comfortable, careless folks to feel better by playing with the comprehension, and answering, 'But we're with God, so we must be holy!'

27 Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”
28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

Rich version: Well, Lord, I did leave my mansion..... to my kids, you know! Can I come in?
Holy version: Yes Lord, I gave up all, and then I gave myself. And no matter how much gave there always seemed to be more when turned to look....'

How does that change your perspective?

Now, how does that change yours?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

It is amazing how Christians deny what Christ taught by reinterpreting what he said to their own advantage. however we all fail that needle test.
If we truly Loved one another, as our selves, selfishness and greed would be impossible to us.
Wealth is only useful when used. It is only compatible with God's commands when used for the benefit of all.
There is no special benefit of being poor... it is what you do, in what ever way you can, for others, that counts.

 

[oldbadger]

It is amazing how Christians deny what Christ taught by reinterpreting what he said to their own advantage. however we all fail that needle test.
If we truly Loved one another, as our selves, selfishness and greed would be impossible to us.
Wealth is only useful when used. It is only compatible with God's commands when used for the benefit of all.
There is no special benefit of being poor... it is what you do, in what ever way you can, for others, that counts.

True.
I think it's a human trait, the manipulation of moral codes to suit convenience.

Do you remember how a high % of folks wanted our Human Rights Act (98?) repealed because it supported the rights of terrorism suspects and convicts?

I often wondered what same folks would have wanted if any of theirs had been mistreated by a government office.

It's similar...... in a way, to the idea of this thread.

 

[Kenny]

What?
Why, if I had included all then you would have had nothing to do....?

LOL... no... because when you take it out of context you create your own message.

Like me plucking two scriptures out...

"So he went and hanged himself"
"Go ye and do likewise".

But, I don't think that you get it...
The rich man was not with God!
A person with God is probably more like John the Baptist, living out in the wastes, as close to self-subsistence as any human could be, living on the pulse of the seasons, at one with all, at one with his God.
With God all is possible.
But I guess it's easy for rich, comfortable, careless folks to feel better by playing with the comprehension, and answering, 'But we're with God, so we must be holy!'

Yes, that could happen. It certainly it is easier to trust money than God. However, the message wasn't that being rich was bad because the following scriptures that I quoted expresses that.

Zacchaeus is the great example. He was a rich man and stayed rich but he was also rich with good works. He gave half his money to the poor and if he robbed anyone, as a tax collector, he paid the back four-fold.

Since God is the God of the poor, He is also the God of the rich to help the poor.

Rich version: Well, Lord, I did leave my mansion..... to my kids, you know! Can I come in?
Holy version: Yes Lord, I gave up all, and then I gave myself. And no matter how much gave there always seemed to be more when turned to look....'

Jesus Christ version: "Yes Lord, I gave to the poor, helped the needy, widows and orphans, and left an inheritance to my children's children as scripture said. And to boot, I taught them how to continue doing what I did"

Now, how does that change yours?

YUP! Fixed you all up!

 

[metis]

If we use Paul's model, the clergy should work on having a regular job and then preach on the side, taking any and all donations to help the community as a whole.

By raking in a lot of money as clergy, and then keeping much of it for themselves, it brings into the question as to what is their real motivation for the preaching?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Jesus didn't write a syllable of the bible...
Its a very simple idea to consider. Love, if it has any effect in your life at all..will cause you to consider ..not just your own well being, and that of your children and those whom you love as family and friends, but also...the well being of every sentient being. I don't want to own or use, for myself.. anything better than basic supplies... I choose to live as simply, and as frugally as I can...In a materialistic society that can be harder than it sounds...

Why own even basic supplies, if you have faith that God will provide?

Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature?

28 “So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; 29 and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?

31 “Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

Isn't *any* savings or stockpiling just a guard against worry that you won't have enough in future?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If we use Paul's model, the clergy should work on having a regular job and then preach on the side, taking any and all donations to help the community as a whole.

By raking in a lot of money as clergy, and then keeping much of it for themselves, it brings into the question as to what is their real motivation for the preaching?

This reminds me of something you see a lot in Japanese martial arts: it's very common for "old school" senseis to refuse any payment for their instruction; they consider it demeaning.

You don't see this much in North America, where for-profit dojos are common, but it's very common in Japan and more traditional dojos.

Edit: to be fair, there are some Christian churches that follow the model you describe. The Mormons and the Quakers immediately come to mind.

 

[Kenny]

If we use Paul's model, the clergy should work on having a regular job and then preach on the side, taking any and all donations to help the community as a whole.

By raking in a lot of money as clergy, and then keeping much of it for themselves, it brings into the question as to what is their real motivation for the preaching?

So true. Certainly a requirement for clergy is to not do it for lucre sake.

And yet it was the 11 tribes that were supposed to supply the needs of the tribe of the Levites so that there efforts wouldn't be impeded. As a matter of fact, wasn't it in the time of Nehemiah that the portion to the Levites wasn't given and when they started, the whole of the country prospered?

PS. If I am not mistaken, Paul also received offerings to help with the cause. Someone said it this way, "some people go and others send". But to send you have to work.

 

[oldbadger]

LOL... no... because when you take it out of context you create your own message.

Like me plucking two scriptures out...

"So he went and hanged himself"
"Go ye and do likewise".



Yes, that could happen. It certainly it is easier to trust money than God. However, the message wasn't that being rich was bad because the following scriptures that I quoted expresses that.

Zacchaeus is the great example. He was a rich man and stayed rich but he was also rich with good works. He gave half his money to the poor and if he robbed anyone, as a tax collector, he paid the back four-fold.

Since God is the God of the poor, He is also the God of the rich to help the poor.


Jesus Christ version: "Yes Lord, I gave to the poor, helped the needy, widows and orphans, and left an inheritance to my children's children as scripture said. And to boot, I taught them how to continue doing what I did"


YUP! Fixed you all up!

Is this typical example of how folks can waffle & meander their way far from Yeshua's clear simple message?

It's up to the readers to decide.

 

[oldbadger]

If we use Paul's model, the clergy should work on having a regular job and then preach on the side, taking any and all donations to help the community as a whole.

By raking in a lot of money as clergy, and then keeping much of it for themselves, it brings into the question as to what is their real motivation for the preaching?

Ah.... the Borgias knew how to be proper Christians, and look how far up towards heaven they reached!
I reckon that the fancier the argument about why wealth is fine for Christians, so the more hypocrisy.
I would love to know what John the Baptist would have said about them.

Then again, I would hate his comments about me!

 

[roger1440]

As there can be poor hoarders and rich hoarders, plus there's the fact that Jesus has no problem being unemployed but has to bum off people with actual belongings, still ... I think the problem is an unwillingness to give, no matter what your W-2 says.

Where are you getting Jesus was unemployed? Just because the Bible doesn’t mention a job doesn’t mean he didn’t have one. The Bible doesn’t mention Jesus farting, burping, sneezing or scratching his rear end either. I’m no Biblical scholar but my guess he did those things just like the rest of us.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Where are you getting Jesus was unemployed? Just because the Bible doesn’t mention a job doesn’t mean he didn’t have one. The Bible doesn’t mention Jesus farting, burping, sneezing or scratching his rear end either. I’m no Biblical scholar but my guess he did those things just like the rest of us.

He told his followers to go out into the world with nothing but a begging bowl; you don't think he followed his own advice?