the Crimes of God

[Thief]

Have you ever thought that perhaps it is not always the person you are preaching to, but perhaps maybe, just maybe, it is the sermon that is lacking?

some people can't see into the speech
let alone the greater scope that would be volumes at a time

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

no hope for some people

Glad you see it my way.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

and when it's over you have gained nothing maybe even lost something
or someone here at the forum there seems a great deal of denial
a lot of it bolstered by the perception of God as portrayed in scripture
but just for the horror of it let's say it's all true and the Creator has set this up for the few that figure it all out only the few that can take that same frame of mind and embrace it what I see in nature is far more ruthless than scripture

Some people have actually believed god, and turned away.
Some actually know god exist but is made at god and reject him
Some believe god but can't find enough evidence to confirm their belief and turn away.


Others don't know what you're talking about.


If you do not believe in god, and I told you you are pointing the blame at god,

who are you pointing your finger at?

 

[McBell]

some people can't see into the speech
let alone the greater scope that would be volumes at a time

Yes.
Thus it makes no sense to dis the listener when it is the sermon that is lacking.

 

[Thief]

Some people have actually believed god, and turned away.
Some actually know god exist but is made at god and reject him
Some believe god but can't find enough evidence to confirm their belief and turn away.


Others don't know what you're talking about.


If you do not believe in god, and I told you you are pointing the blame at god,

who are you pointing your finger at?

but I do believe in God and would not point the finger at Him

belief or not?.....accusation aimed at Someone Greater would prove suicidal

you don't have to believe to understand the perspective
just place your self as Someone Greater and decide....
who lives
who dies
who gets to continue
who doesn't

maybe the basic difficulty in perspective is not believing in your life after death?

 

[Thief]

Yes.
Thus it makes no sense to dis the listener when it is the sermon that is lacking.

would you like to clarify for me?
or just make denial and complaint

 

[Unveiled Artist]

but I do believe in God and would not point the finger at Him

belief or not?.....accusation aimed at Someone Greater would prove suicidal

you don't have to believe to understand the perspective
just place your self as Someone Greater and decide....
who lives
who dies
who gets to continue
who doesn't

maybe the basic difficulty in perspective is not believing in your life after death?

Don't compare this to god. I know it's hard to pretend to point a finger at god when you're actually not; it's just an analogy.

If I told you, you were pointing a finger at Sarah Zingerfield for a murder she and her husband Paul Zingerfield did in 1981 all because you assume that Sarah and Paul killed John Brandon's husband at that time....

and you found out later that Sarah and Paul have stolen the identity of a unidentified couple (which no one can trace), and you are still pointing the finger,

who are you pointing the finger at?

 

[McBell]

would you like to clarify for me?
or just make denial and complaint

You made the comment that there is no hope for some people understanding.
Is it not your job as the preacher to alter your sermon as needed to meet the needs of the listener in order to understand the sermon?
Or is it better to merely dis the listener whilst arrogantly sticking to your same old song and dance?

I understand you are accustomed to throw out the empty "denial" claim and wash your hands of it, but with as often as it is no one understands what you are getting at, It seems that perhaps maybe at some time, you might want to look into the possibility that it is your sermons that need work.

Since you have indicated this is a rather sensitive and touchy subject you, I shant bother you with it any more.

 

[buddhist]

My God doesn't have a name

and His handiwork indicates.....He knows what He was doing
(we on the other hand.......)

Funny ... I see creation and I see it filled with suffering on every side. If a god did create this creation, I would say that it is a massive failure.

No matter the endless number of wonders we might discover throughout creation/samsara, it doesn't belie the fact that our experience of it all is inconstant, impermanent, and that none of it is ultimately sastifying.

 

[buddhist]

Will you really annul My judgment? Will you condemn Me that you may be justified?---Job 40:8

Yes.

Since you quoted Job, I will say that the god of Job reveals his emotional weaknesses, in that he often finds himself vexed, grieved, wearied, or loathing things, e.g. Gen 6:6, Psa 78:40, Isa 7:13, Isa 43:24, Isa 63:10, Mark 3:5, Eph 4:30, Heb 3:17, etc.

It reminds me of the god Subrahma who expressed his fears to the Buddha (SN 2.17):

"Always frightened is this mind,
The mind is always agitated
About problems not yet arisen
And about those that have appeared.
If there exists release from fear,
Being asked, please explain it to me."​

 

[james bond]

I would say HYPOCRITES or those who say "Do as I say and not as I do" get tossed in a lake of fire immediately.

"Jesus addressed the other form of hypocrisy in the Sermon on the Mount: “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye” (Matthew 7:3-5). Jesus is not teaching against discernment or helping others overcome sin; instead, He is telling us not be so prideful and convinced of our own goodness that we criticize others from a position of self-righteousness. We should do some introspection first and correct our own shortcomings before we go after the “specks” in others (cf. Romans 2:1)."

 

[McBell]

I would say HYPOCRITES or those who say "Do as I say and not as I do" get tossed in a lake of fire immediately.

except for god, right?

 

[james bond]

except for god, right?

Trick question? There is no "except" with God.

 

[omega2xx]

Yes./QUOTE]


Amusing, You are more compassionate than God/

Since you quoted Job, I will say that the god of Job reveals his emotional weaknesses, in that he often finds himself vexed, grieved, wearied, or loathing things, e.g. Gen 6:6, Psa 78:40, Isa 7:13, Isa 43:24, Isa 63:10, Mark 3:5, Eph 4:30, Heb 3:17, etc.QUOTE]


None of those verse indicate anything you just posted. Since you can't understand them, you just rfead into them what you want them to say.

It reminds me of the god Subrahma who expressed his fears to the Buddha (SN 2.17):

"Always frightened is this mind,
The mind is always agitated
About problems not yet arisen
And about those that have appeared.
If there exists release from fear,
Being asked, please explain it to me."​

To liken a mythical god to a true God, is illogical. Of course not believing in God is the height of illogic.

 

[buddhist]

Amusing, You are more compassionate than God/

I wouldn't kill children for name-calling (2Kings 2:23-24).

None of those verse indicate anything you just posted. Since you can't understand them, you just rfead into them what you want them to say.

Gen 6:6 "And the LORD was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart."
Psa 78:40 "How often they rebelled against him in the wilderness and grieved him in the desert!"
Psa 78:59 "he was wroth, and greatly abhorred Israel"
Isa 7:13 "you weary my God also"
Isa 63:10 "they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit"
Mk 3:5 "he looked around at them with anger, grieved at their hardness of heart"
Eph 4:30 "grieve the Holy Spirit of God"
Heb 3:17 "with whom was he grieved forty years"

Seems to me that the verses do say that "he often finds himself vexed, grieved, wearied, or loathing things".

To liken a mythical god to a true God, is illogical. Of course not believing in God is the height of illogic.

To follow an emotionally unstable, warmongering, bloodthirsty, changable god is a greater height of illogic, IMO.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

God gave Man dominion.

Dominion over what though? On our own and without mechanical assistance, we can't control nature, we are utterly helpless against a myriad of organisms too tiny to see with the naked eye, many other animals are not threatened by us, and we are often not even good at controlling our own emotions.
If anyone gave us an advantage, it would be the likes of Prometheus and Satan, because though we can run fast, have opposable thumbs, and can vocally communicate abstract ideas, without our tools and our ability to harness fire and electricity we wouldn't be much better off than the average orangutan.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Amusing, You are more compassionate than God/

I am against the death penalty, and try to see the good in people before seeing them as damned sinners. So, I don't have to assume I am more compassionate than god, I know I am. And then I know those who are a million times more compassionate, loving, merciful, and forgiving than your god. But I would say we are, overall, far more compassionate than god. Norway, for example, instead of just killing people who disobey they work with people to turn them into functioning and productive members of society. We have this concept of "rehabilitation." God, on the other hand, frequently resorts to death and destruction. Literally, you have to be more compassionate than god to work in a number of fields and be any good at them, such as medicine and social work.

To liken a mythical god to a true God, is illogical. Of course not believing in God is the height of illogic.

What's illogical is using the adjectives "benevolent" and "merciful" to describe a god who considered sex slaves as part of the plunder of conquest, or "loving" and "forgiving" to describe a god who would send people to Hell for all eternity.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

some people can't see into the speech
let alone the greater scope that would be volumes at a time

If people aren't understanding you, rather than saying it's something wrong with them, perhaps you should examine the delivery of your own message.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What was god's motive?

*the quote thingy wouldn't work right so I paraphrased*
The Bible makes it clear that he was angry with "wickedness" and "evilness," but that he especially does not like disobedience or people worshiping other gods. He punished the Egyptians for holding the Jews as slaves, but only a truly monstrous, cold blooded and heartless ******* would even have children killed. If a world leader did that today, such as ordering the deaths of the first born or the butchering of entire villages down to the children, we would not tolerate it and we certainly would not regard this person as good, holy, or righteous.
It's time we start applying equal standards to god.

 

[Reggie Miller]

"Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes." ~Deuteronomy 20:16​

God has committed and orchestrated crimes so that people can learn from his justice.

For example:

1. Genesis 19: Lot's Wife

The whole Sadaam and Gammora thing could have been avoided; but, well, god felt that the evil should be punished for their misdeeds. That's logical according to god and it showed Lot obedience. When god told Lot and his wife not to look back, Lot's wife did anyway and turned into a pillar of salt.

Now, if I had two children and one child did something where I punished him, that's fine according to most parents. If I told my other child not to look and he did, why would I punish him? Out of curiosity? Because he disobeyed me? What about "looking back" caused him to be punished and in Lot's wife's case killed just like the people god killed in Sadaam?

2. Abraham's Son Genesis 22

Now, people justify this all the time but it never sat right with me. If I wanted my child to obey me and wanted him to do something for me to show his obedience, I would never ask him (if he had a child of his own) to take his own child, bring it to me, slaughter it before me, and then say "because you did you will be rewarded." If anything, I would reward him because he choose against my command and valued a life before he valued my words.

Maybe a christian can learn from human sacrifice, but to me that's barbaric.

3. Deuteronomy 20:16-18 A short excerpt of killing for the promise land

Now, some argue that it was because of the people who heard god's voice that they took the land; therefore, they took the blame off god and put it on the people. That doesn't make sense. If the people killed without god's command, they'd have god to answer to. Like with Lot and a whole other loads of sins, the Isrealites where commanded to kill. Whoever told them to do so, how, and why doesn't take out the fact that one, they were ordered, and two, they did it.

Of course you may have seen the movie The Ten Commandments with Charlsten Helsten. Very good movie and classic. Though, the people need not die because they worshiped idols.

God does commit crimes but in scripture he does so to teach a message. Whether the christian takes it as justice or ignores it is up to them, but the crimes are there point blank.

God created all and all belongs to Him. He can do as He wishes with His creation. His judgements are all righteous. If you understand scripture you know this.