Prayers to the dead

[whirlingmerc]

Better to direct prayers to the living God.

 

[TDselector]

Prayer (indirect selection) cannot overrule death (absence of direct selection). See why: How The NY Giants Super Bowl Commemorative Series Was Used To Confirm Science Is Based On "Alternative Facts" History

 

[Thief]

I will trust the Church...I don't believe God let the first 16 generation of Churches go astray on this issue.

last I heard ....keeping (praying) with familiars was taboo
did I miss your pronouncement of permission?

 

[Spiderman]

last I heard ....keeping (praying) with familiars was taboo
did I miss your pronouncement of permission?

Praying to the dead was okay for 1500 years before the first Church existed that condemned the behaviour.

 

[Thief]

Praying to the dead was okay for 1500 years before the first Church existed that condemned the behaviour.

and whatever ruling suits your agenda is fine with you?

and the practice of praying to 'familiars' has no consequence or peril?

 

[metis]

Praying to the dead was okay for 1500 years before the first Church existed that condemned the behaviour.

And it was done even prior to Jesus being born, according to the book of Sirach.

However, let me just correct one thing with the above and say that it's praying "through" not "to" the "communion of saints" whether they be alive or deceased, as the end purpose of all Christian/Jewish prayers is for God.

 

[Spiderman]

and whatever ruling suits your agenda is fine with you?

and the practice of praying to 'familiars' has no consequence or peril?

If there was something wrong with it I don't think Christ would wait that long to raise up a Church to condemn it. All Christains were doing it and beforehand the Jews were.

 

[Thief]

If there was something wrong with it I don't think Christ would wait that long to raise up a Church to condemn it. All Christains were doing it and beforehand the Jews were.

not that I'm real big on Catholic dictatorship......I'm not

as a rogue theologian I follow no congregation

but of course......drawing attention of spirit......in prayer
is likely to have problems

To focus and call upon Heaven might work without harm
but we humans have an inherent fail when deciding which spirit to trust
(note the garden event)

 

[Spiderman]

not that I'm real big on Catholic dictatorship......I'm not

as a rogue theologian I follow no congregation

but of course......drawing attention of spirit......in prayer
is likely to have problems

To focus and call upon Heaven might work without harm
but we humans have an inherent fail when deciding which spirit to trust
(note the garden event)

The Lord let me know that there are some souls in Heaven looking out for me, friends in high places. They are like Angels. God works through them. They help me a lot. I love them They glorify God

 

[Spiderman]

There are some murdered girls I pray to that help me out a lot. I came to realize that they were in my life. It helps me to have female companionship with the maidens of God. They are like Angels in Heaven. They help me to never become a serial killer. They change my heart and help me overcome myself! They are soldiers for Christ!

Throughout Scripture God works through people, Angels, and spirits. The host of Heaven serves and glorifies God. God wants me to have companionship with such Saints and Angels. It is a massive grand army!

 

[Spiderman]

Paul said:
Galatians 2:20 ►
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me."

Paul said it is no longer him but Christ who lives. The same can be said for the souls in Heaven

 

[Ingledsva]

Yes, to me, ancient Israel had a changing vision ( or view ) because especially when the Jews began mixing with the Greeks they adopted Grecian theories and philosophies as Scripture although Not Scripture - Matthew 15:9

The first-century followers of Christ believed Jesus' teachings: The dead sleep - John 11:12-14
So, those first-century Christians would Not have believed in afterlife but rather belief in: resurrection.
A future resurrection as the ' future tense ' is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection....

It was those fallen-away Christians - Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30 - who adopted a form of ancestor worship.

Or, as the Hebrew actually did it, - maybe Jesus did also, and those Christians who did so, - were the real followers of Jesus?

*

 

[Ingledsva]

My belief is that when the Bible speaks of "the dead" and says that they know nothing, it is referring to the physical body, which does, in fact, die when the spirit that gave it life leaves it and all brain activity ceases. Generally speaking, it is committed to the earth, where it returns to dust. That doesn't mean that the spirit which entered it at birth has suddenly ceased to exist. I believe the spirit to be eternal in nature, and see the spirits of the dead as continuing to exist as cognizant entities, despite the fact that they do not reside in a physical body after the death of that body. When Christ returns to begin His Millennial Reign, I believe those spirits will return to the bodies where they resided during mortality and will give new and everlasting life to all.

It seems - from reading the articles and the Bible, - that the Hebrew though all dead, both good and bad (the bad with troubled sleep), -slept in Sheol awaiting the coming of their Messiah, and final judgment. And, that they could be awakened, and consulted, and help the living, then go back to sleep.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

And the scripture existed long before then.

"There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. "For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD; and because of these detestable things the LORD your God will drive them out before you."
-Deuteronomy 18:10-12

"As for the person who turns to mediums and to spiritists, to play the harlot after them, I will also set My face against that person and will cut him off from among his people."
-Leviticus 20:6

Yet interestingly, the Bible tells us the Hebrew did everything mentioned there.

In fact they just started to call anyone doing these in YHVH's name OK, - and anyone doing the same things in another God's name as evil and forbidden. I always got a kick out of 1Sa 9:9 which appears to be telling us exactly that.

1Sa 9:9 (Beforetime in Israel, when a man went to enquire of God, thus he spake, Come, and let us go to the seer: for he that is now called a Prophet was beforetime called a Seer.)

1587 Geneva Bible Gen 44:15 Then Ioseph sayd vnto them, What acte is this, which ye haue done? know ye not that such a man as I, can deuine and prophecie?

Gen 44:15 Said Joseph; Why this action which thou took? Did you not know I can (nachash) Hiss Incantations and Enchant/Divine?

*

 

[Christ's Prophet]

I couldn’t agree with you less. I would ask you ‘what is the two themes of Ecclesiastes?’ Have you studied them? The first phrase is ‘under the sun’ (28 times) and the second phrase is ‘all is vanity’ or similar (32 times). These themes dominate this book. King Solomon the writer is only looking at life from this earth’s standpoint, that whatever is under the sun is all vanity. The dead indeed have been removed from out of the communion of the living and we cannot communicate with them and they indeed know nothing of this earth because they are in a different realm and they will never return here. We must be careful not to take Scriptures out of context that is how false religions start. Certainty for eternity

 

[psychoslice]

For me the dead are dead, no prayer would do anything for them, its a wast of time.

 

[capumetu]

The dead know nothing Ecc 9:5,6,10

A priest does not have the power to resurrect dead ones, so the only possible ones to communicate with in the spirit realm is the demons. Since conjuring up the dead is a violation of God's law, the righteous spirit beings would have no part in it.

capumetu @yours.com

No space after u

 

[Electus de Lumine]

The Scripture contradicts itself. Besides, what I'm advocating has nothing to do with necromancy. Invoking souls in Heaven isn't necromancy.

Spiritists mentioned in Scripture were summoning Spirits from Sheol. That is something different.

I'm not advocating seeking out mediums. Besides, the Scripture contradicts itself.

I know the scripture contradicts itself.

But Sheol is not mentioned in any of the passages I quoted, they ban the summoning and communication in general.

Not to mention that according to scripture you go to heaven at the end of the world not after you die.

If you know that scripture contradicts itself and from your magic that their are souls in heaven then why do you follow a religion based on those scriptures?

 

[Electus de Lumine]

Yet interestingly, the Bible tells us the Hebrew did everything mentioned there.

In fact they just started to call anyone doing these in YHVH's name OK, - and anyone doing the same things in another God's name as evil and forbidden. I always got a kick out of 1Sa 9:9 which appears to be telling us exactly that.

1Sa 9:9 (Beforetime in Israel, when a man went to enquire of God, thus he spake, Come, and let us go to the seer: for he that is now called a Prophet was beforetime called a Seer.)

1587 Geneva Bible Gen 44:15 Then Ioseph sayd vnto them, What acte is this, which ye haue done? know ye not that such a man as I, can deuine and prophecie?

Gen 44:15 Said Joseph; Why this action which thou took? Did you not know I can (nachash) Hiss Incantations and Enchant/Divine?

*

I am aware it contradicts itself.

 

[Spiderman]

I couldn’t agree with you less. I would ask you ‘what is the two themes of Ecclesiastes?’ Have you studied them? The first phrase is ‘under the sun’ (28 times) and the second phrase is ‘all is vanity’ or similar (32 times). These themes dominate this book. King Solomon the writer is only looking at life from this earth’s standpoint, that whatever is under the sun is all vanity. The dead indeed have been removed from out of the communion of the living and we cannot communicate with them and they indeed know nothing of this earth because they are in a different realm and they will never return here. We must be careful not to take Scriptures out of context that is how false religions start. Certainty for eternity

As I said, the Bible contradicts itself. I take it literally when Moses and Elijah appear with Jesus on mount tabor in Matthew 17...Also,
"Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In Revelation, John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth."