The Big Bang and Evolution

[arthra]

If God exists perhaps the big bang was his way of creating the universe making scientist and Religion correct. Maybe he is also responsible for evolution.

We Baha'is believe God is a creating God..that is, He never stopped creating after seven days...the process of creating in our view is ongoing and has always been. So the universe is infinite and has no beginning or ending .

"If the beings were absolutely nonexistent, existence would not have come into being. Therefore, as the Essence of Unity (that is, the existence of God) is everlasting and eternal -- that is to say, it has neither beginning nor end -- it is certain that this world of existence, this endless universe, has neither beginning nor end. Yes, it may be that one of the parts of the universe, one of the globes, for example, may come into existence, or may be disintegrated, but the other endless globes are still existing; the universe would not be disordered nor destroyed."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 180

Evolution also is part of the process as well... We were likely fish-like having gills at one time but we were always potentially human...

"To recapitulate: as man in the womb of the mother passes from form to form, from shape to shape, changes and develops, and is still the human species from the beginning of the embryonic period -- in the same way man, from the beginning of his existence in the matrix of the world, is also a distinct species, that is, man, and has gradually evolved from one form to another."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith, p. 308

 

[omega2xx]

OK Omega - I'll respond to the relevant parts of your post only:
True - I never said I could prove otherwise (in fact I said exactly the same thing as you in post 21 - that's the one with all the non-existent evidence you keep talking about) and neither does science - science only offers explanations that do not necessitate recourse to supernatural causation

Did you not post what you considered evidence? Was that not to prove the BB was a fact? This is not about God doing it, it is about the scientific evidence that supports the BB as a fact.

does not set out to prove the God/no God argument at all

Every one thinks my default position is "God did it" Let's stick to science for this discussion.

Well spotted, BB theory does not explain these things - and neither does the Bible teach us how to service a Toyota Hilux engine - and that proves it must be wrong!?

Part of you presentation included the tired, old, usual talking point of the universe expanding being the evidence of a BB. Why is the sun and some of the starts not running away from the blast?

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it.

I am sure you recognized it was not a compliment.

Oh yes! Very seriously! Interesting isn't it?

Interesting is not the word I had in mind. It was "gullible." That describes people who accept something someone says without checking the facts.

First, 1964 Penzias and Wilson, then in no particular order, COBE, RELIKT1, WMAP, DASI, BOOMERanG, BICEP2, the Planck Telescope...look them up - you might even learn something...Oh yes - and you can even do one yourself - tune your tv between Hope Channel and TBN and look at the 'interference' on the screen - about 1% of it is your tv antenna picking up this background remnant of the Big Bang.

I'm from Missouri. WE are not that gullible.

Why thank you - you are most absuredly kind! But I'm not really sure whether the attempt is all that credit-worthy - the others probably just knew better already! Anyway, the info might be useful if anyone is genuinely interested in evidence.

If you ever have any scientific evidence, get back to me,

 

[jonathan180iq]

His written word..........He created all things, (yes, you and me too), and He had the wisdom to have ALL THINGS replenish and reproduce from seed of itself. Wow! The thought of man evolving from ________ (whatever you want to put in there), is a perfect example of "fake News". Read the first couple chapters of Genesis and you will know where you came from.

ronandcarol

Simply saying that something is true doesn't fulfill the requirement for supporting data.

What evidence do you have that any of what you've just written is accurate?

If you maintain that the "Bible" is evidence that it was written by God, then you're falling prey to Circular Reasoning and your argument is invalid. You have to do better than that.

 

[omega2xx]

Simply saying that something is true doesn't fulfill the requirement for supporting data.

What evidence do you have that any of what you've just written is accurate?

If you maintain that the "Bible" is evidence that it was written by God, then you're falling prey to Circular Reasoning and your argument is invalid. You have to do better than that.

What you say is true. Do you ever tell the evolutionists the same thing? l I didn't think so,

 

[jonathan180iq]

What you say is true. Do you ever tell the evolutionists the same thing? l I didn't think so,

I'm happy to link you directly to anything you'd like to know about the science of Evolutionary Biology. I'm happy to explain the parts of it that you may not understand. I'm happy to do the same with Cosmic background radiation, and the discovery of Cosmic neutrinos, which continue to further validate what we know about the origins of our Universe.

That's very different from simply saying that God wrote the Bible and therefor God is real and made everything...

Substantiate your claim.
Russell's teapot - Wikipedia

 

[siti]

This is not about God doing it...Every one thinks my default position is "God did it"

I wasn't assuming anything - I was responding to your opening gambit:

For all you k now God may have creatded it that way.

Why is the sun and some of the starts not running away from the blast?

They are.

Interesting is not the word I had in mind. It was "gullible." That describes people who accept something someone says without checking the facts...I'm from Missouri. WE are not that gullible...If you ever have any scientific evidence, get back to me

I have given plenty of evidence and pointers to a lot more in this thread already - you have yet to respond intelligently to anything I posted. I'm not gonna waste any more time except to suggest that you (a) learn to read and write and (b) when it comes to discussion of scientific subjects do the reading and writing in that order. This may protect from speaking out of your...ignorant assumptions.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

The scientific community will reply to you shortly...

Yippididoodaa

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

That's not what He was saying at all in John 3:16-18.
Welcome to reality.

That is what is said.
If you accept the parable of the good samaritan, then you have accepted the word of christ;
you have accepted him.

 

[omega2xx]

I wasn't assuming anything - I was responding to your opening gambit:
They are.
I have given plenty of evidence and pointers to a lot more in this thread already - you have yet to respond intelligently to anything I posted. I'm not gonna waste any more time except to suggest that you (a) learn to read and write and (b) when it comes to discussion of scientific subjects do the reading and writing in that order. This may protect from speaking out of your...ignorant assumptions.

You have not given any scientific evidence as to HOW it happened. You evos seem to think just saying it , makes it true. Let start with the source of the matter that went bang and the source of the energy that caused the BB. No links please. They are like you, they just say it happened and everyone is suppose to accept their word. If you want to cut and paste any evidence one of your links provide, fine. This may protect you from revealing your ignorance of scientific evidence really is.

 

[metis]

It's truly a shame that some use religion as a set of blinders when it really should be the opposite. Any religion or denomination that tells it's congregants to ignore the reality found in science must be regarded as being bogus because Truth cannot be an "alternative fact".

 

[Reggie Miller]

That is what is said.
If you accept the parable of the good samaritan, then you have accepted the word of christ;
you have accepted him.

To no avail if you do not believe in Him.

 

[Reggie Miller]

I was walking through the desert in Arizona and I found a watch. I thought to myself, "Gee, it's amazing how this watch just randomly happened!"

DNA, RNA and the simplest life forms are far more complex than a watch. Just telling me it happened without being specific is similar to expecting people to believe the watch just randomly assembled itself.

And I think we can all agree that is absurd. At least I hope so.

 

[Reggie Miller]

It's truly a shame that some use religion as a set of blinders when it really should be the opposite. Any religion or denomination that tells it's congregants to ignore the reality found in science must be regarded as being bogus because Truth cannot be an "alternative fact".

What reality are you talking about? If you investigate into BB theory further you will see that it is all based on assumptions, not fact.

 

[metis]

What reality are you talking about? If you investigate into BB theory further you will see that it is all based on assumptions, not fact.

I have checked it out, not only reading more than a half-dozen books written by cosmologists about the BB, but I've had subscriptions to "Scientific American" for over 50 years. It is not based on "assumptions" but on overwhelming evidence.

You might consider even looking up "Big Bang" at Wikipedia, which has links provided at the end that give scientific sources that one can connect to.

 

[Reggie Miller]

I have checked it out, not only reading more than a half-dozen books written by cosmologists about the BB, but I've had subscriptions to "Scientific American" for over 50 years. It is not based on "assumptions" but on overwhelming evidence.

You might consider even looking up "Big Bang" at Wikipedia, which has links provided at the end that give scientific sources that one can connect to.

Where is your evidence for how the BB happened and why? Where the matter came from and/or why it was all in one place?

All of the so called evidence is assumptions by scientists based on what they think happened. No hard facts at all.

 

[metis]

Where is your evidence for how the BB happened and why? Where the matter came from and/or why it was all in one place?

All of the so called evidence is assumptions by scientists based on what they think happened. No hard facts at all.

All you are doing either regurgitating or inventing a massive conspiracy theory, and I simply am not going to feed it because I told you where you can get info on this. Since it seems you're not willing to do as such, then this becomes your problem, not mine.

The BB does not exclude having a belief in God, and if your church/denomination tells you that it does, then let me recommend you find a different church/denomination. If they are so willing to lie to you about the BB and the ToE, as the church I grew up in did, then what else are they going to lie to you about?

Most Christian theologians do not see a conflict as long as it is understood that God was behind it all.

 

[omega2xx]

It's truly a shame that some use religion as a set of blinders when it really should be the opposite. Any religion or denomination that tells it's congregants to ignore the reality found in science must be regarded as being bogus because Truth cannot be an "alternative fact".

I never bring religion into the discussion of the TOE. It is the evos who try to make my religion the basis for what I believe. Conservative Christianity s not tell it members to ignore science. WE might tell the to ignore the TOE, because it is not really science, Real science refutes evolution,

You really need to get your facts straight before you make such a silly statement.

 

[metis]

You really need to get your facts straight before you make such a silly statement.

Well, since I'm an anthropologist and one who taught theology as well, I've done the research over roughly five decades now. Maybe you should actually do some serious reading and actually look for a serious Christian church and denomination that deals in reality and Truth. The information is out there, but you really don't seem to care, but that's obviously your choice.

I was brought up in a fundamentalist Protestant church but realized even when I was still in high school that I was not being told the Truth, so I left when in my mid-20's. I go regularly to my wife's church, and they do not preach such ignorance.

Hey, it's your choice and your problem, not mine.

 

[ronandcarol]

Simply saying that something is true doesn't fulfill the requirement for supporting data.

What evidence do you have that any of what you've just written is accurate?

If you maintain that the "Bible" is evidence that it was written by God, then you're falling prey to Circular Reasoning and your argument is invalid. You have to do better than that.

I can do better than that, It's called faith. I have complete faith in what the scriptures say about creation! It states that God did create everything, and He sustains it each and every day. It also states in the Bible that God can not lie. He is essence of truth, if He said something that is good enough for me, I believe Him. That is my belief you cannot change it, so don't feel that you need to call for more facts or evidence, I can only offer my faith in what is written.

ronandcarol

 

[omega2xx]

Well, since I'm an anthropologist and one who taught theology as well, I've done the research over roughly five decades now.

Anthropology is no help; in understanding the Bible. You may have taught the Bible, but you certainly don't understand it or you would not have made the statement you made. I have been studying the Bible for almost 40years, and I have also taught it to adults in Sunday school, and I would guess I have spent more times studying it than you have.

Maybe you should actually do some serious reading and actually look for a serious Christian church and denomination that deals in reality and Truth.

Maybe you should do some serious study instead of just reading it. Another silly, and judgmental statement fro your ignorance. I belong to a conservative Christian church that teaches Bible truths, Evidently you belong to some liberal church that thinks they are smarter than God.

The information is out there, but you really don't seem to care, but that's obviously your choice.

Keep looking and maybe you will find the true truth, but you will need a better view of Gos inspired and inerrant word to do so.

I was brought up in a fundamentalist Protestant church but realized even when I was still in high school that I was not being told the Truth, so I left when in my mid-20's. I go regularly to my wife's church, and they do not preach such ignorance.

You don't even know what a fundamentalist church is.

Hey, it's your choice and your problem, not mine.

What you posted clearly shows the problem is your. You don't even understand why you were wrong.

Without knowing, I bet you do not accept the inspiration, and inerrancy of the Bible and you call your self a teacher.