A Challenge To All Creationists

[Monk Of Reason]

Hmm... an eyewitness account from a reliable witness is disappointing, yet you believe in abiogenesis? Not sure I can take you seriously.

Bible isn't credible and nor was it written by eyewitnesses. Probably because there were none since of the fantastial miracles ever happened.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Hmm... an eyewitness account from a reliable witness is disappointing, yet you believe in abiogenesis? Not sure I can take you seriously.

You don't have any eyewitness accounts, despite your assertions to the contrary. You have accounts written decades after the supposed events, by mostly anonymous writers. The majority of Biblical scholars and textual critics do not agree with you.

My view on abiogenesis is, "I don't know."

 

[SkepticThinker]

Wrong. They were originally written by the Apostles or dictated to someone who wrote what they said.

You don't have a foggy clue about the "first organism" yet you believe 100% that abiogenesis happened. What is wrong with you?

No, you are wrong. Nobody has copies of the originals. Have you never read any academic work on this subject?

Why says I believe anything about abiogenesis?

 

[Reggie Miller]

Bible isn't credible and nor was it written by eyewitnesses. Probably because there were none since of the fantastial miracles ever happened.

Figures. "Probably" is the about the best anybody will ever get out of you.

Abiogenesis "probably" happened.
Macro-evolution "probably" happened.

Hogwash. Both probably didn't happen, they require too much to happen by pure random chance to have happened. Especially abiogenesis. A fully functioning single cell organism just popped out of the blue. Sure it did.

 

[Reggie Miller]

No, you are wrong. Nobody has copies of the originals. Have you never read any academic work on this subject?

Why says I believe anything about abiogenesis?

I'm not stupid, I know they don't have the originals. They have copies of the originals. I have read much on it, most of the secular stuff is biased against it.

Do you believe God created? If you don't then you have to believe in abiogenesis. So which is it?

 

[Reggie Miller]

You don't have any eyewitness accounts, despite your assertions to the contrary. You have accounts written decades after the supposed events, by mostly anonymous writers. The majority of Biblical scholars and textual critics do not agree with you.

My view on abiogenesis is, "I don't know."

Yep. At least you admit that you don't know. You also don't know if God created or not, either.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'm not stupid, I know they don't have the originals. They have copies of the originals. I have read much on it, most of the secular stuff is biased against it.

Do you believe God created? If you don't then you have to believe in abiogenesis. So which is it?

I don't have to believe anything.

Why do you think those two things are mutually exclusive OR, the only two available options?

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Figures. "Probably" is the about the best anybody will ever get out of you.

Abiogenesis "probably" happened.
Macro-evolution "probably" happened.

Hogwash. Both probably didn't happen, they require too much to happen by pure random chance to have happened. Especially abiogenesis. A fully functioning single cell organism just popped out of the blue. Sure it did.

Sure buddy. Sure. Magic man in teh sky that is watching is right now had a baby with a "virgin" woman 2k years ago and he was the son of god who was also god who died so that god (himself) could forgive us by killing...himself. So now the blood of god as Jesus protects us from the other parts of god that want to kill us. Because a chick convinced her husband to eat a fruit because a talking snake said so. Don't worry we know that happened because there is another guy who was told by a burning bush to get his people out of Egypt and he parted a sea and then drowned a whole army in 2 feet of water.

 

[Jose Fly]

I say so, you say it is not. Why criticize med when you do the exact same thing?

Because I cite the actual data to back up my say-so. You do no such thing.

You don't even understand the concept---what ever they were they remained the same species-. Do you really not understand that evolution requires a change of species? How sad.

Again, your point that I was responding to made no mention of the evolution of new species. You merely claimed that a trait had to be present in the genomes of the parents in order to exist. That is demonstrably false.

Also, I've posted numerous citations to observed and documented examples of the evolution of new species. Did you forget?

You cant know that. When is used the anti-boitic one the sample the first time, if all do not die, some already had the resistence to the anti-biotic. Otherwise all would have died, and evolution would take much to long to come to the rescue of the rest of them

And that's precisely how you get a single-clone strain that is susceptible to the antibiotic. In the experiment you can do a parallel smear on a medium that is all antibiotic infused. When you get no survival, you know the strain lacks the resistance trait. Not only that, but as I said previously you can actually run a PCR analysis of the initial colony and the evolved colony, compare the sequences, and actually see the new genetic sequences that confer the resistance trait.

I mean, it's like I said earlier...the experimental evolution of antibiotic resistance is a fairly common thing.

Experimental evolution of resistance to an antimicrobial peptide

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YAWN. You don't even know enough biology to recognize I know more than you do. I look for evidence, and evaluate it. you accept by faith alone whatever doctrines your preachers preach.

Uh huh. So anyways, if you truly believe new traits cannot arise via evolutionary mechanisms, exactly where do you think new traits come from?

 

[Reggie Miller]

Sure buddy. Sure. Magic man in teh sky that is watching is right now had a baby with a "virgin" woman 2k years ago and he was the son of god who was also god who died so that god (himself) could forgive us by killing...himself. So now the blood of god as Jesus protects us from the other parts of god that want to kill us. Because a chick convinced her husband to eat a fruit because a talking snake said so. Don't worry we know that happened because there is another guy who was told by a burning bush to get his people out of Egypt and he parted a sea and then drowned a whole army in 2 feet of water.

Do you ever stop assuming?

 

[Reggie Miller]

I don't have to believe anything.

Why do you think those two things are mutually exclusive OR, the only two available options?

Either God created life or He didn't. If He didn't then you've got abiogenesis. You got any other options?

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Do you ever stop assuming?

Since everything we know is only ever extrapolated from data I guess not. But its beter than pretending to know and be wrong.

 

[Reggie Miller]

Since everything we know is only ever extrapolated from data I guess not. But its beter than pretending to know and be wrong.

The Spirit reveals truth. Those who know Christ know this verse is truth.

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

John 14:17
the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and He will be in you.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Either God created life or He didn't. If He didn't then you've got abiogenesis. You got any other options?

Either god exists, or god does not exist. The rest doesn't necessarily follow.

Maybe there are multiple gods. Maybe there is a god, but life began naturally. Maybe aliens made us. Maybe we are brains in a vat.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The Spirit reveals truth. Those who know Christ know this verse is truth.

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

John 14:17
the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and He will be in you.

Those who know Allah know that their holy books are true. Those who know Vishnu know that their holy books are true.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

The Spirit reveals truth. Those who know Christ know this verse is truth.

By what mechanism? what is spirit? How did you come to find out about it? What does it do? How does it function? Is it energy? Is it matter? If it is matter then what state is it in? How does it interact with the physical world? How do you interact with it? Is it at all possible its just in your head?

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

John 14:17
the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and He will be in you.

Oh darnit. I guess I'm wrong. That bible verse sure showed me.

 

[Reggie Miller]

Either god exists, or god does not exist. The rest doesn't necessarily follow.

Maybe there are multiple gods. Maybe there is a god, but life began naturally. Maybe aliens made us. Maybe we are brains in a vat.

Nevertheless either life was created or it wasn't. If it wasn't then abiogenesis had to have happened. There is no other choice.

 

[Reggie Miller]

Those who know Allah know that their holy books are true. Those who know Vishnu know that their holy books are true.

Then I suggest you get to work and figure out what is the truth before it is too late.

 

[Reggie Miller]

By what mechanism? what is spirit? How did you come to find out about it? What does it do? How does it function? Is it energy? Is it matter? If it is matter then what state is it in? How does it interact with the physical world? How do you interact with it? Is it at all possible its just in your head?

Oh darnit. I guess I'm wrong. That bible verse sure showed me.

Romans 1
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Nevertheless either life was created or it wasn't. If it wasn't then abiogenesis had to have happened. There is no other choice.

It doesn't necessary have to be created by the very god you believe in.